Meow

You don't think there is a difference between laws and cultural practices? Besides alcohol isn't illegal in the UAE.

If you cannot accept the laws of a country, or indeed the cultural practices, no matter whether you agree with them, why would you live there?

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W10

You are skating on very thin ice if you want to use that line of argument...it's pretty weak.

Meow

I think you will find that I posed two questions...



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W10

For example, alcohol is technically illegal in the UAE, it is up to the discretion of each emirate to decide if they want to tolerate it and make an exception to the rule. It is also illegal to consume alcohol in an unlicensed establishment (ie - if you are at a party, drink and have no liquor licence you are breaking the law). If you are drunk and get arrested, you will probably be charged with 'consuming alcohol'. Sex outside of marriage, and co-habitation is also illegal

In terms of cultural practices, I think you'll find that both of the above are very heavily frowned upon by most locals.

So the argument you are trying to apply to this guy also stands for ex-pats in the UAE. The vast majority of whom pay no attention to it.

You could argue that the UAE tolerates these practices because it is a liberal country (whether they are for business or ideological reasons does not matter) which respects people's religious and cultural beliefs. But then the exact same applies to the UK.

And tell me...what is a 'British local custom', bearing in mind the gentleman in question is probably British?

Meow

You are being disingenuous now. You know perfectly well what people mean by British cultural practices.

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Shehryar

It is though, in quite a few contexts (eg at most public places, even in many private ones without a license, etc) True - but the accepted/public cultural practice of the UK, in general, when it comes to religion, is 'live and let live'. Its not 'you must like pork sausages'. Forcing someone to do something against their religious beliefs is definitely not a British cultural or societal norm, and is in fact the reason that so many religious or other minorities have made the place their home over the centuries.

The UAE, on the other hand, is an Islamic/Muslim country when it comes to cultural norms - all us expats knew that before we moved here.

PS: Sorry for barging in, I appreciate that the questions were addressed at someone else.

Meow

Alcohol is not illegal. There are restrictions on its consumption, sale and possession, but it is not illegal.


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W10

Nope...the thing that is Great in Britain now is that it is tolerant and multicultural.

Around 10% of Londoners are Muslim now, 13% are Asian, 10% are black.

The British 'national dish' is a curry, the most famous public party is a West Indian carnival, my old neighbours used to celebrate Diwali, yom kippur, eid and Christmas...

Meow

Yes, we all know that, but similarly you do know what I mean and again I think you are being disingenuous.

My family moved to the UK some 100 years ago, from a different religious background, but realised that they had to fit in to UK society, not expect the majority of the population to fall in with them.

The UK is incredibly tolerant of all races and religions, and there is little censorship, so I do not see that it is unresonable to expect people who choose to live there to accept what are common practices. I have a certain sympathy for the man that this thread was initially about, but we have all heard the stories of people, admittedly a minority, who want the country to fit in with their beliefs.

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W10

The published version of the law is fuzzy online, and it is my understanding that it is illegal (because it is a sharia based system), but with each state allowed to set exceptions. But even if you want to play semantic games the vast majority of expats here are breaking the laws on alcohol (transportation of without a licence, consumption of without a licence, drunk in public etc)

The technicalities are a side issue. My points a few posts above still stand. If you argue the guy in the UK should respect cultural practices then we over here certainly do not. If you think he should respect the law...well, he is. And we are not.

Meow

I have a Government issued alcohol licence, so I am not breaking the law by keeping alcohol in my home. I agree that many do, but you cannot say that we are all law breakers. I also think it unfair to claim that all expats are disrespectful of cultural practices.


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Shehryar

With respect, "they" don't want that, do they? Or at least, not outside the radical/loony fringes. The vast majority of such cases are straight-forward requests by individuals to live with some freedom; the Muslim medic asking for a prayer break at work, or the Sikh policeman insisting on wearing his turban are not threatening the establish British social order, nor are they agitating for the "country to fit in with their beliefs" - they are simply living their own lives as they want to - and that's as British a value as any!

Meow

And where have I said that is wrong? I have no issue with that. I clearly referred to a minority.


It is very frustrating when people twist your words for their own agenda.

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W10

I'm not being disingenuous. 100 years ago is not now, nowhere near it.

And this guy isn't expecting the majority of the population to fall in with him. He is excercising his legal right. As the country has become more open to immigration, so cultural norms change.

It was a cultural norm 40 years ago to throw casual racist banter around on TV and to put up signs banning the irish from pubs. It was a cultural norm 100 years ago to put leeches on your arm and to send children up chimneys.

Shouldn't you treat each case on an individual basis? You don't strike me as very Daily Mail. Looking at the facts available in that story, it really doesn't look like this guy is doing anything wrong.

Meow

W10, I am very far from being 'Daily Mail' - I despite that bitter, nasty, trouble-making rag.

My comments were meant generally and I did say I have sympathy for him. Tolerance is the answer to many things, as is being reasonable. That applies to people who already live in a country and those that move there - no matter where that is.


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