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Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Patsy Stoned
(Post 10671737)
Have a drink darling xxx :D
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Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Ethos83
(Post 10671716)
It helps explain why despite church attendance in the UK under 5% the clear majority still believe in a higher being.
But on a serious note, totally agreed with what you said, it never ends so why get into the details. Enjoy the now and plan for the worst :thumbsup: |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper
(Post 10671767)
Thats because most of them have grown up...if you know what I mean :rofl:
But on a serious note, totally agreed with what you said, it never ends so why get into the details. Enjoy the now and plan for the worst :thumbsup: |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Meow
(Post 10671696)
I think it is an insult to logic and sciene to suggest otherwise.
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Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Ethos83
(Post 10671716)
Hold on.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it brainwashing as that implies a deliberate attempt by a small group of people to manipulate the majority. People aren't successfully 'brainwashed' unless they really want to believe what they're being told. |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Quoted within your post it sounds as if I stated the obvious but it was in direct reference to Meow's post. Most religious leaders aren't in a conspiracy to brainwash their followers because brainwashing is persuading people to believe something in order to gain power of control over them. Quite often the persuader doesn't necessarily believe what he's persuading others to believe in.
Originally Posted by Bahtatboy
(Post 10671816)
Tell me you were having an off day when you wrote that.
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Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Ethos83
(Post 10671829)
Quoted within your post it sounds as if I stated the obvious but it was in direct reference to Meow's post. Most religious leaders aren't in a conspiracy to brainwash their followers because brainwashing is persuading people to believe something in order to gain power of control over them. Quite often the persuader doesn't necessarily believe what he's persuading others to believe in.
brain·wash·ing [breyn-wosh-ing, -waw-shing] Show IPA noun 1. a method for systematically changing attitudes or altering beliefs, originated in totalitarian countries, especially through the use of torture, drugs, or psychological-stress techniques. 2. any method of controlled systematic indoctrination, especially one based on repetition or confusion: brainwashing by TV commercials. 3. an instance of subjecting or being subjected to such techniques: efforts to halt the brainwashing of captive audiences. You'll successfully argue both ways on religion when referencing point 2. above I think. |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Ethos83
(Post 10671716)
Hold on.
I wouldn't go so far as to call it brainwashing as that implies a deliberate attempt by a small group of people to manipulate the majority. People aren't successfully 'brainwashed' unless they really want to believe what they're being told. Gods, religions, the afterlife/heaven speak more of an deeper human need to try and understand the world around us and our place in it. Whether or not they exist is besides the point. It helps explain why despite church attendance in the UK under 5% the clear majority still believe in a higher being. I've long given up caring whether gods exist or not but I do periodically wonder how it all got started. The universe. The pre-universe. The pre-pre-pre universe. Who/what is the ultimate creator whatever he/she/it/nameless particle may be. It's the infinity concept that gets to me when everything is supposed to be finite, right? If there is a beginning as defined by the big bang then what was there before the big bang? If there's a higher being behind it all, how did the higher being come about? It never ends, doesn't it? My brain aches when I try to think about it too much. No, I'm still calling it brainwashing and many people do want the easy option of being told what to think. Consider, as one example only, the church in medieval Britain. All in Latin, priests telling people what to do and how to behave. Sermons about terrifying futures of fire and brimstone for those who did not comply. An uneducated populace who knew no better and indeed were prevented from knowing more as the was a long fight not to translate the bible into English as there was a danger that people would find out things for themselves. (Not wildly different from some societies today really.) There may have been a 'deeper need to understand the world' in the past, but with today's science we know many of the answers so don't need the (to my mind) childish answer of 'because god said so' to many issues. I also suspect that many people say they believe in a higher being as that's what they were told was the case as a child and they have never really thought about it. Many people really never think about existential topics so just go with the flow. Others don't want to question their accepted beliefs as it's just easier that way. We still have many unanswered questions, but that's fine. Sometimes things just are, have developed that way and that's the mystery and magic of the natural world. |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Genesis 1:29 "And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat."
Fruits ferment naturally, man helped them on their way. Lots of things grow out of the ground and can be eaten or smoked and some men believe (rightly or wrongly) that they bring man to ultimate enlightenment....... |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Ethos83
(Post 10671716)
If there is a beginning as defined by the big bang then what was there before the big bang?
I know, I can't get it in my head either. What does amuse me is that if an alien being was looking at our planet from a planet 65 million light years away he would only see dinosaurs.... |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Kix
(Post 10671886)
Nothing existed as time did not exist and without time, nothing can exist, or so says Stephen Hawkin in his book A brief history of time.
I know, I can't get it in my head either. What does amuse me is that if an alien being was looking at our planet from a planet 65 million light years away he would only see dinosaurs.... Perhaps that explains why the aliens haven't visited us yet? Or have they??? ;) |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Ethos83
(Post 10671829)
Quoted within your post it sounds as if I stated the obvious but it was in direct reference to Meow's post. Most religious leaders aren't in a conspiracy to brainwash their followers because brainwashing is persuading people to believe something in order to gain power of control over them. Quite often the persuader doesn't necessarily believe what he's persuading others to believe in.
I think you're fundamentally wrong on that point. Although, perhaps to split hairs, what we're seeing today is the legacy of just that (a way of controlling people). That can certainly be the case, but isn't a prerequisite. Once the leaders are brainwashed and lose their ability to critically reason, whether or not they believe is immaterial. Anyway, as per Scamp's definition number 2, belief of the washer is irrelevant. |
Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Irishbeekeeper
(Post 10671715)
Scamp, I do believe Redshark used Mother Teresa's name as a 'good guy example', who last time I checked was as Christian as they get.
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Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by Kix
(Post 10671886)
Nothing existed as time did not exist and without time, nothing can exist, or so says Stephen Hawkins in his book A brief history of time.
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Re: Ramadan Kareem !
Originally Posted by mikewot
(Post 10672613)
Because you need to have a reference in 4 dimensional space. Without time where is your reference point.
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