redShark

That is an easy one mike. Your question is simply wrong because you are using the word ‘from’ which implies space, and Space does not contain the creator of space. He has to be outside the physical world. You see, Time and Space existence of ours is just like any other existence in that it must have an initiator that exist in a different superior existence, much like the existence (or the life if we can call it) of Micky mouse coming from another existence, a world containing human spirits.

Bahtatboy

I'm quite content with that explanation. I don't agree with it, but I can accept it as a philosophy. What I can't accept is you, and others like you, insisting that other people (your children, for example) must agree with you. That's sheer ****ing arrogance.

Charismatic

We are supposed to live in peace and harmony but must, by design, is a fight just to survive in this savage world? Your god is very cruel putting humans into a situation where the system he designs precludes us from attaining the perfection he allegedly intends for us to seek.

Also I raise the point he is acting indifferently to belief. He does not reward good behaviour or punish poor behaviour, people who believe and pray continue to live in desperate poverty while those who do not often live at a western standard. The Hindus who pray to many gods are just as well rewarded as their fellow countrymen who pray to just one. Clearly your god does not care what you believe or if you pray, he is at best indifferent to humans in this scenario. Of course religious texts tell us otherwise but aren't gods actions towards us more important than the words of a dusty old religious script?

mikewot

OK so lets see if I got this right. You assume (unless you have some evidence which you'd care to share?) that there is a 'something/initiator' which exists outside of our physical world in a 'different superior existence'. Ignoring the question of why you (and I presume all muslims) believe this, where did the 'different superior existence' come from, how does it exist?

Millhouse

He is referring to God. The same one that the Christians believe in.

mikewot

If I may make so bold, it seems that most believers are interested in finding good reasons to hold on to their beliefs, rather then finding out if they hold their beliefs for good reasons.

There are people who have trouble telling a rational argument from an irrational one. Not because they are ignorant or stupid, but because they evaluate data as "useful" or "useless" rather then "true" or "false". Useful data tends to be one that justifies their beliefs. They seem almost uninterested in the validity of information. They recognize contradictions and logical flaws in their beliefs, but don't seem to acknowledge these as important factors. Sharkie falls within that group who are remarkably good at protecting those beliefs from critical examination - especially as those beliefs have been long-held, publicly professed and are shared by many others in his social network.

Skepticism, critical thinking, logical reasoning and science are the most consistently reliable tools we have for discerning reality, but employing their use means using your brain on your long held beliefs.

britexpat76

This is my main argument when we have gone around in circles. I first heard this exact same argument from the prophet Christopher Hitchens (PBUH)

Its funny how these 'Charlatans' all popped up in the same place at a similar time.

redShark

So you’ve failed to come with an example! Still you and Mike continue to live under the illusion that you are scientific in your approach. My understanding of science is that to make a claim about something you have to bring up an evidence about it in a form of a laboratory experiment, or a mathematical model, or at least point us to a phenomenon that can show an equivalence. You have done neither of them. Let me show you what I’d expected from you to do but unfortunately you failed. When a scientist wanted to explain and prove the idea of the big ban what he did was he stood up and held a glass cup in his hand and he then let it drop. He proved to the spectators that the phenomenon of the shuttered glass look very much like the scattering of the planets in the universe. This is the approach I did when I pointed out the example of Micky Mouse, so who are the most scientific in their approach, the followers of the Quran or the others???

I think I have answered that question before. when a divine and final concept is needed to be delivered to the humans , the best place to put it in is a primitive environment because it will have the least chance of getting contaminated with other false man made ideologies. No one wants to put a piece of meat in a place full of harmful bacterias, you rather put it in a dry and clean place. Man made ideologies to a human’s mind are as harmful as bad bacterias to his body. Arabia at that time was the most primitive environment in the middle east. Simple logic




No, no, there is a huge difference. If you take the bible challenge you will win over it, because you can disprove it in many concepts, least the age of the earth being 6000 years only. And it is even easier to win the old testament challenge because you can easily prove that Semitic people are not necessarily the superior race.

redShark

I told you the creator is outside the physical world so your laws of physics do not apply on him, which means your mathematics can not realize him, yes mathematics can give indication but there is no way it can describe him, so how can you expect even to imagine how he is????

redShark

As ever, very flimsy arguments you have, not surprising since you are a follower of Christopher Hitchens. Your point about the homo sapiens does not actually hold water when you put it to Quran because Quran stated clearly that since the time of Adam himself no single community existed on earth without the message of Islam was sent to them through a prophet. Therefore the existence of all those religions in the world can be explained to be revelations from the creator but they got contaminated by man made ideologies that creeped into their basic teachings. Christianity is a good example

redShark

Blame no body but yourself for this confusion. You are the one who decide to put himself under the illusion that this life is the ultimate heaven. The creator has communicated to mankind time and time again that haven is not on earth.

redShark

Corrected that for you

britexpat76

You know what, you cannot reason with an idiot - Its a fact. If you are so blinded to the real world we live in where people use religion as a reason to blow themselves and other innocent people up, Use religion as a reason to refuse life saving medical procedures or as an explanation as to why its fine to kill someone for deciding they dont believe the fairy tales anymore - Then good luck to you.

I do have one suggestion though. Instead of wasting valuable time here talking to free thinking mainly professional people why don't you pray for famine to end, ask your god to remove Cancer from children and while you are at it ask him to make sure your poor 'brothers' in third world countries have the chance for a proper education and a chance in life.

Just let me know how those prayers go....................

mikewot

You have a very peculiar and simplistic view of science which is incorrect.
Errant nonsense, as Stephen Hawkins and a host of other scientists have proven. You need to read Big Bang 101. As I've said before and I'll reiterate it now, you are simply a troll.

mikewot

OK so you are telling us, in point of fact, that we humans do not know, cannot know 'what' your superior being is. Therefore how can you consider that this superior being created everything, what line of reasoning leads you to this conclusion? You have quite simply made the whole thing up, you have told us so in as many words.


Those who come to a conclusion by a process without rational, logical thought, cannot be dissuaded from that conclusion by logical, rational argument.