scrubbedexpat141

Mmm.

You're right; the Western press are a complete bunch of liars and the Arabic reporting structure for news is only ever portraying the complete, full, honest, detailed truth.

Marie Colvin, why is she no longer alive? Because the Arabs in the country were trying to peacefully resolve the issue? Through mediation?

I think you need a bit of a wake up call my friend. Nobody in this world is perfect, nor do they solve problems correctly every time, but if I'm correct, you are telling me that the Arab League are the end station? They say it's all OK and will be sorted then there will be a resolution to end the war?

Really?

Norm_uk

Am I right in concluding from this that you are trying to state that 'we have it all wrong' when it comes to the Nazis and Soviets?

And how do you know what my experience is?

There are many ways to remove a leader. War is not the only way. In some cases pressure can be applied economically or diplomatically. In cases like Hitler though only war would have and did stop him.

I can't think by anyone else's brains...I have a science diploma but my biology wasn't that good

And I have been a firm supporter for diplomacy at every step, it is always preferable to war. But how does one trust leaders who tell the world one thing and tell their people another? We know all politicians lie but the good ones tell the same lies to everyone.

I also know that I would rather see other people die than my own people or my allies people. You're not chatting to a wishy washy westerner who apologies for existing. Some of us don't believe the self-destructive propaganda we've have spoon fed to us for the last 50 years by people who want us gone so they can set up their own little ideological paradises.

The leader of my home country can be removed by the will of the people quite peacefully. In fact he can be removed by his own peers in Parliament if he steps out of line or by the Head of State. We don't have to worry about him dropping nuclear weapons on countries he doesn't like for no valid reason, or for him to use the army to force the people to do what he likes.

You are comparing an apple with a potato. I come from an admittedly imperfect democratic country that still respects the rule of it's own laws and we tend to admit our mistakes both now and in the past. Can you say the same?

N.

Norm_uk

They don't - last time Iran had elections they had the army out killing and terrorising and arresting the many thousands of people who were protesting what they saw as rigged elections as well as the Iranian Government's increasing self-isolation of itself...

Younger Iranians especially do no want to live in an Islamic Republic. They are the heirs of a 3500 year culture that inspired the declaration of human rights, had no slavery and whose leaders called their bitter Roman rival leaders 'brothers' even after centuries of war right up until they were annexed by opportunist desert dwellers with a new religion to impose on their world. The sons and daughters of Darius are living under a terrible foreign theological oppression that has lasted nearly 1000 years and I think it's clear many of them have have had enough.

That's why their leaders have to become more and more extreme to create more and more enemies so they can distract the people from just how much they are cheating them.

The question is how much and what kind of help will the world give the Iranians who want to be free?

N.

Norm_uk

He's not that bad...he openly stated multiculturalism is a failure.

Then again he did say he thinks Turkey should be in the EU so let's not give him too much credit.

N.

scrubbedexpat141

To be honest, I just don't really like him that much. He seems to lack any real presence in any situation.

Did like him sticking two fingers up to Europe when given the chance though.

Swings and roundabouts. It's him or Clegg or Militwat.

The above trio of options strikes me of same shit, different toilet.

Still. Rather have him than a dictator / tyrant / insert aggressive title

northbadawi

I don't think you are wrong. But I see that you have it all different when it comes to the Nazis and Soviets, Libyans and Syrians, etc...

Politics is not a sciences. There are no Newton's laws in politics. All laws and all beliefs are subjective depending from your experience, where you are, who you are, and mostly - with whom you are... "I would rather see other other people die than my own people or my allies people".

What is your business to remove my leader or any other leader? If it is not your leader then it is not your f...ng business.
The problem is that one leader wants to remove another leader and both starts brainwashing for own nations and allies.

Hundred of Tomahawks on sovereign country doesn't counts?

Because she was not cautious, she entered Syria illegaly and was with armed rebels. Accidental casualty. RIP.
-----------

I respect all religions and all beliefs despite I don't think they all are very truthful.
But don't bring your beliefs by crusades or jihads to the others where you are not invited.

And armed gangs and defectors fighting against own leader and calling for foreign invasion are renegades and have been executed in all times in all countries.

Meow

When 'your' leader starts doing things that affect other countries then it becomes their business. That has always been the way.

There is also something called care and compassion, so if certain leaders mistreat their own people, some of us think action need be taken to stop that.

Bahtatboy

What is your business to remove my leader or any other leader? If it is not your leader then it is not your f...ng business.

So you'd be content to stand on the sidelines and watch atrocities happen, and not lift a finger? And what about when "your" leader starts threatening me, my family and my security?

northbadawi

True.
All those calls from "your" leaders for strike on Iran threatens millions of iranians, and also threatens me, my family and my security and my saudi and expat friends here.
Threatens a lot of BE in ME also...
Those of you in Bahrain: would you support the strike on leaders of Bahrain who mistreat their own people? Or supply weapons to disloyals?

khitan004

If shit kicks off I'm getting as close to Makkah as possible. Last place I reckon will get bombed.

OriginalSunshine

yup - them Israelis would nehvah consider bombing Mekkah if Saudi decided to come out on the opposite side.....

Oyibopeppeh

Anyone listen to the Kenyan's speech today.....methinks the chest-beating has begun

weasel decentral

Not to disagree completely with you here but we have stood idly by on the sidelines in many conflicts or incidences of atrocities.
The west has a fine history of acting as the world police when it suits and turning the blind eye on other occasions.
I am struggling to see the difference between inflicting causalities on one side in the name of democracy, and a leader doing it within his own country. Is it just arrogance that makes us believe we are doing it for justifiable reasons?
iraq and afganistan are not shining examples of success in this policy. Libya has turned to a tribal bloodbath since western help to depose Ghaddafi.
Can you argue this intervention has made you or your family demonstrably safer? I certainly can't.

Oyibopeppeh

Bollox....

Yes, there are far too many arms knocking around, but there is no systematic tribe -vs- tribe genocide going on in Libya.

Millhouse

The sarcasm was lost...