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Do you consider yourself to be European?

Do you consider yourself to be European?

Old May 11th 2011, 9:59 pm
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Bahtatboy View Post
In that case why English? Why not a Lancastrian, Devonian or whatever county your come from? Actually, why county--why not town? Or street?

Me, British? Nah mate, I'm a High Streeter.

300 years of history are why you should get the British thing.
I think English, Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are culturally different enough to have their own identity and not have to be classed as British.

The clock on our history didn't start ticking 300 years ago.
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Old May 12th 2011, 5:40 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Hello.Kitty View Post
"Team EU - F*** yeah!" has a certain ring to it...
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Old May 12th 2011, 8:16 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Stealth Otter View Post
I think English, Welsh, Scots and Northern Irish are culturally different enough to have their own identity and not have to be classed as British.

The clock on our history didn't start ticking 300 years ago.
British is simply a term to describe the geographical region and the common heritage of the people living there. Assertions of the term Briton can be found in the mid and late middle ages, some time before the political union, and the name is likely a Greek/Roman approximation of a very native term

Irish, English, Welsh and Scots are all geographically British whether they like it or not. They are all related and many have common ancestry to boot. On top of this they have VERY similar cultures in most respects. Certainly they all share common values for the most part, respecting rule of law, fair play and the vitally important love of decent beer and ale

It's a pity past politics has founded a dismissal of the perfectly good term "British" and even now continues to be a term associated with an unequal union rather than a region that shares common heritage and culture. Maybe that's why I think the Union needs to be "rebooted" with a constitution that enshrines all these cultures and languages native to the Isles.

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Old May 12th 2011, 8:18 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

I'm British. Europe is the continent not my home country and english is the language not my citizenship.
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Old May 12th 2011, 11:59 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Hello.Kitty View Post
"Team EU - F*** yeah!" has a certain ring to it...
I like Eddie Izzards european dream. On a scooter saying ciao to everyone..Not something I would do, but still, nothing better has been proposed since that.
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Old May 14th 2011, 5:03 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

It is the lack of knowledge of our shores - actually apathy - that has England and Britain in the confused state that it is in. Welsh and Scottish - PROUD. (Not forgetting our Irish colleagues, but I don't want to include them in the British debate!).

Perhaps Jeremy Paxton hit on the head - he once said "It is a mark of self confidence: the English have not spent a great deal of time defining themselves because they haven't needed to"

Unfortunately that has left a lot of people in the last 40 years growing up in a state on confusion as to what it is to be English. Politics have a huge part to play in this as well of course (as per previous comments). But ultimately, if you don't give a s**t about your heritage it will vanish.

SO geographically I am European and I will claim the same. But English and proud first and always.

Last edited by Daz968; May 14th 2011 at 5:18 am. Reason: because
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Old May 14th 2011, 10:36 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Daz968 View Post
It is the lack of knowledge of our shores - actually apathy - that has England and Britain in the confused state that it is in. Welsh and Scottish - PROUD. (Not forgetting our Irish colleagues, but I don't want to include them in the British debate!).

Perhaps Jeremy Paxton hit on the head - he once said "It is a mark of self confidence: the English have not spent a great deal of time defining themselves because they haven't needed to"

Unfortunately that has left a lot of people in the last 40 years growing up in a state on confusion as to what it is to be English. Politics have a huge part to play in this as well of course (as per previous comments). But ultimately, if you don't give a s**t about your heritage it will vanish.

SO geographically I am European and I will claim the same. But English and proud first and always.
So true.

I think something has happened in the UK (and perhaps the West at large) since the 1990s from a cultural context. Has no one noticed the little changes - the dress down fridays became all week? We seem to have more and more teen crime than ever? Even music seems to have changed, with rock and blues based music being kicked off the shelf in favour of remixes done on a laptop and hip hop. No wedding I attended before the late 90s in the UK had anyone wearing jeans or slippers - in the last five years it's been a treat to go to a wedding where the bride wore a dress and the groom had a tie on. Of course it could all be a matter of perception and I am definately being general but I think there's a bit more going on than just the usual change between generations.

One thing is clear - few native Britons seem to give a hoot about their heritage and traditions anymore...indeed many will be hard pressed to name aspects of their culture and traditions.

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Old May 14th 2011, 11:44 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
SEven music seems to have changed, with rock and blues based music being kicked off the shelf in favour of remixes done on a laptop and hip hop.
And on just what planet do you live on? Rock (and rock based music if you so wish) music has not been as big as it is currently since the early to mid nineties. Rap is on its way out and has been for some time. Even the curse of 'RnB' seems to be dying out, FINALLY!!! Even country music is starting to get somewhat of a following outside of the US now with people like Hank Williams III introducing a younger generation to people like willy nelson, etc. The whole Southern americana dark bluessy stuff is coming up to with bands like those poor bastards, 16 horsepower and even I'd say Nick Cave's popularity is on the rise again.

But the whole xfactor/pop idol all year eurovision song contest material is flying high. I know who I blame for that.

Home made self produced music is growing due to the improvements in recording/production software and ease of use. They also tend to offer this up for free, and some of it is actually quite good.

One thing is clear - few native Britons seem to give a hoot about their heritage and traditions anymore...indeed many will be hard pressed to name aspects of their culture and traditions.
N.
How is this clear? Haven't you seen the EDL?? ahaha..Or the fact that parties like the BNP have enough supporters to get an MEP. Surely, this must attest to the cultural and national pride some people have left..!!

Anyway, I can't stand morris dancing, should I loose my passport or go to some cultural educational class?

You need to stop worrying so much of the demise of the world and live a little, seriously. Only you can propogate your own culture and only you can be the conscious consumer who doesn't buy crap music. Simples, really.

edit: Also think England needs to readjust its own attitude. Its just a tiny island in Europe somewhere, who if it wasn't for the 'sepcial' relationship' with uncle sam, would probably be a lot more in line with the general Euroepan scwabbling, which would be so much more fun.

Last edited by Paracletus; May 14th 2011 at 11:49 am.
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Old May 14th 2011, 12:26 pm
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Paracletus View Post
The american's know unity. They are raised on a diet of that whole pride, school sports, pledging allegiance to their flag (which is optional to do in school, but who'd dare to not do it?), playing bball and football yo and shouting USA at any given opportunity. This is something lacking in Europe, and seriously speaking, EU doesnt' sound as macho as USA when shouted in the face of un-suspecting passers by, it just doesn't work.
"Go EU!"

You're right...it sounds pants.

"Rule Britannia" on the other hand sounds quite threatening...can you imagine if British schools all had to have Union flags in the classroom and children had to pledge allegiance to the State? We'd be accused of fascism faster than a sailor on shore leave leaves the ship when it docks in Bangkok!

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Old May 15th 2011, 5:22 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Paracletus View Post
How is this clear? Haven't you seen the EDL?? ahaha..Or the fact that parties like the BNP have enough supporters to get an MEP. Surely, this must attest to the cultural and national pride some people have left..!!

Anyway, I can't stand morris dancing, should I loose my passport or go to some cultural educational class?

You need to stop worrying so much of the demise of the world and live a little, seriously. Only you can propogate your own culture and only you can be the conscious consumer who doesn't buy crap music. Simples, really.

edit: Also think England needs to readjust its own attitude. Its just a tiny island in Europe somewhere, who if it wasn't for the 'sepcial' relationship' with uncle sam, would probably be a lot more in line with the general Euroepan scwabbling, which would be so much more fun.

1. I wish there were more members of the EDL and BNP, that way these groups would be more able to put forward a more substantial (moderate?) argument for their existence. Unfortunately, they are seen as purely far right organisations. This is not really fair - what they are TRYING to do is manage one piece of the jigsaw - and that is protecting what is English / British. Unfortunately (and our own lefty / liberal press plus the general English apathy have a lot to be held responsible for here) they are constantly slandered for their activities of PROTECTING what is English / British.

2. Have you ever tried Morris Dancing / Country Dancing? Been on a real-ale / folk weekend. Morris Dancing and Country Dancing were compulsory when I was at school - it's called heritage! You learn about it's reasons for being. You may not like it - but don't slate it. This is exactly why the English heritage is being lost because the English are stating ignorant comments like yours and not defending it. (On the assumption that you are English - if you aren't then I suggest you do some reading / try it before you slate it.

3. Your last comment...once again, if you claim to be English / British, I suggest you give back your passport and go claim nationality somewhere else.

People slag us off, but they are happy to take from us.

Why is the US so powerful? Yes, they have money and resources. They have PRIDE! They are united in their flag, their history and culture - crikey, it's only 200 years old! But hang on a minute, I think we had a part to pay in their history didn't we? (Yes I know the French / Dutch / Spanish did as well). We English have so much more, yet we choose to give it all away / piss it up the wall.

I will always be proud to be English and British. I guarantee that you moaning wet minnies will be the first to stand behind my back and those of the EDL / BNP if the brown stuff hits the fan. Where would you be now if it wasn't for your education / your parents hard work and dedication? Probably jumping across the fence to get some of the English / British freedom.

Stop the bad mouthing, accept where you came from, be proud of it and LEARN about our heritage.

I'll stop ranting now

Last edited by Daz968; May 15th 2011 at 5:30 am.
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Old May 15th 2011, 5:28 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Norm_uk View Post
"Go EU!"

You're right...it sounds pants.

"Rule Britannia" on the other hand sounds quite threatening...can you imagine if British schools all had to have Union flags in the classroom and children had to pledge allegiance to the State? We'd be accused of fascism faster than a sailor on shore leave leaves the ship when it docks in Bangkok!

N.


Can you image? There'd be uproar! This is exactly what I was saying about the US - "...We don't care where you're from sonny, salute the f##king flag!"

Last edited by Daz968; May 15th 2011 at 5:31 am.
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Old May 15th 2011, 6:26 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Daz968 View Post
1. I wish there were more members of the EDL and BNP, that way these groups would be more able to put forward a more substantial (moderate?) argument for their existence. Unfortunately, they are seen as purely far right organisations. This is not really fair - what they are TRYING to do is manage one piece of the jigsaw - and that is protecting what is English / British. Unfortunately (and our own lefty / liberal press plus the general English apathy have a lot to be held responsible for here) they are constantly slandered for their activities of PROTECTING what is English / British.

2. Have you ever tried Morris Dancing / Country Dancing? Been on a real-ale / folk weekend. Morris Dancing and Country Dancing were compulsory when I was at school - it's called heritage! You learn about it's reasons for being. You may not like it - but don't slate it. This is exactly why the English heritage is being lost because the English are stating ignorant comments like yours and not defending it. (On the assumption that you are English - if you aren't then I suggest you do some reading / try it before you slate it.

3. Your last comment...once again, if you claim to be English / British, I suggest you give back your passport and go claim nationality somewhere else.

People slag us off, but they are happy to take from us.

Why is the US so powerful? Yes, they have money and resources. They have PRIDE! They are united in their flag, their history and culture - crikey, it's only 200 years old! But hang on a minute, I think we had a part to pay in their history didn't we? (Yes I know the French / Dutch / Spanish did as well). We English have so much more, yet we choose to give it all away / piss it up the wall.

I will always be proud to be English and British. I guarantee that you moaning wet minnies will be the first to stand behind my back and those of the EDL / BNP if the brown stuff hits the fan. Where would you be now if it wasn't for your education / your parents hard work and dedication? Probably jumping across the fence to get some of the English / British freedom.

Stop the bad mouthing, accept where you came from, be proud of it and LEARN about our heritage.

I'll stop ranting now
Powerful stuff, but you've hit on why I'm a UKIP man, not an EDL or BNP thug. Don't forget there are plenty of 'immigrants' or 'third-generation' British citizens who love our country and its values, including its heritage.

The EDL/BNP axis tries to convince us that 'mass' immigration is eroding our culture, conveniently ignoring the fact that many of those same immigrants want to - and do - immerse themselves in it.
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Old May 15th 2011, 6:57 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by The Dean View Post
Powerful stuff, but you've hit on why I'm a UKIP man, not an EDL or BNP thug. Don't forget there are plenty of 'immigrants' or 'third-generation' British citizens who love our country and its values, including its heritage.

The EDL/BNP axis tries to convince us that 'mass' immigration is eroding our culture, conveniently ignoring the fact that many of those same immigrants want to - and do - immerse themselves in it.
And don't forget that quite a few of these people are not strictly speaking of pure British heritage themselves. There are very few people in today's European society who can confidently say they hail from one particular place in the world.

There was a brilliant TV show a few years ago where one particularly vile EDL/BNP person was shown to be of Turkish origin (IIRC). It was hilarious...
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Old May 15th 2011, 7:13 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Daz968 View Post
2. Have you ever tried Morris Dancing / Country Dancing? Been on a real-ale / folk weekend. Morris Dancing and Country Dancing were compulsory when I was at school
ohhh, country dancing *shudder* ...brings back horrid memories from junior school of being forced to dance with this boy who had really horrid scabby hands...thank god i went to a girls school after that...

MM, xx
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Old May 15th 2011, 7:43 am
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Default Re: Do you consider yourself to be European?

Originally Posted by Paracletus View Post
And on just what planet do you live on? Rock (and rock based music if you so wish) music has not been as big as it is currently since the early to mid nineties. Rap is on its way out and has been for some time. Even the curse of 'RnB' seems to be dying out, FINALLY!!! Even country music is starting to get somewhat of a following outside of the US now with people like Hank Williams III introducing a younger generation to people like willy nelson, etc. The whole Southern americana dark bluessy stuff is coming up to with bands like those poor bastards, 16 horsepower and even I'd say Nick Cave's popularity is on the rise again.

But the whole xfactor/pop idol all year eurovision song contest material is flying high. I know who I blame for that.

Home made self produced music is growing due to the improvements in recording/production software and ease of use. They also tend to offer this up for free, and some of it is actually quite good.


How is this clear? Haven't you seen the EDL?? ahaha..Or the fact that parties like the BNP have enough supporters to get an MEP. Surely, this must attest to the cultural and national pride some people have left..!!

Anyway, I can't stand morris dancing, should I loose my passport or go to some cultural educational class?

You need to stop worrying so much of the demise of the world and live a little, seriously. Only you can propogate your own culture and only you can be the conscious consumer who doesn't buy crap music. Simples, really.

edit: Also think England needs to readjust its own attitude. Its just a tiny island in Europe somewhere, who if it wasn't for the 'sepcial' relationship' with uncle sam, would probably be a lot more in line with the general Euroepan scwabbling, which would be so much more fun.
I'm becoming an old fart and don't keep taps on the latest bands anymore - all I can give opinions on is what I see/know...which I stated when I posted. I live on the same planet as you - sorry I don't know everything about the music industry.

The BNP and EDL and Morris dancing? Is that all British culture is to you?

I'm amazed you know enough about me to tell me to live a little. Have you ever considered taking the James Randi paranormal challenge? You're obviously psychic...

Oh and I think our strength is in being a peculiar island that is not fully in Europe - that's much more fun than being a Euro slave.

N.
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