Ray

Actually I fully agree ...but the rate they are flowing into the country
its too late now ...

Ray

I refer you to your nonsense here

http://britishexpats.com/forum/showp...46&postcount=3

Norm_uk

How many mistaken identity cases in the UK have there been? I can think of the Brazilian illegal immigrant shot by the police days after the London bombings...can't think of any others more recently though.

Anyone who enters your home uninvited immediately forgoes all their rights, including the right the to life - and in most countries intruders are usually killed if they are lucky before the police arrive, gun or no gun. And if someone doesn't have the minerals to defend themselves and their home they don't deserve what they have in my opinion...even the most peaceful animals become deadly when threatened - that instinct keeps species off the extinction list and keeps human civillisation off the anarchy list.
Say the intruder is a seasoned criminal and he/she knows that if identified by the householders he/she would be facing a long stretch in jail...so a few pulls on the trigger and no witnesses plus access to everything in the house. Or the intruder is on drugs or mentally ill? To be honest what would possess anyone to enter someone's home without permission? Even the bloody police need a warrant in most countries. I don't want my life and property dangling by threads of "what if"...do you?

N

Ray

Little story from lakeland florida

man enters house at night beats up women. forced to bed and raped her.

while assault was going... women hand got to bedside draw.. gets gun ...
shoots rapist in head..

Was he going to kill her ..probably ..he was a neighour and she
knew who he was.

Having the right to have a gun.. saved her life

Autonomy

Norm - sorry to say, but you appear a little paranoid sometimes. Arming the population in order to repel possible government abuses... lots of rapes and murders...

Armed citizens also keep the government from getting too heavy handed - and it gives us the right to not be spineless wimps but rise up and remove any future government or foreign power which brings tyranny to our land

"how long before people can just walk in your home and blow you away before raping your wife and stealing your possessions?"

Statistically these things are very, very unlikely to happen....

I can't help but picture you quoting Samuel L Jackson in Pulp Fiction regarding tyranny... I'm happy to agree to disagree with you and guns...

Ray

And if you go robbing with a gun ..dont drop it ...
http://news.tampabaynewsonline.com/2...s-intruder/328

benzonar

I remember another story from Florida a few years back. A Brit was visiting some friends and had been out drinking. The taxi dropped him outside of what he thought was his house. He tried the lock with his key, it didn't work.

So he went around the back to see if he could get in through a window or the patio doors, owner came out and shot him dead.

He obviously had the wrong house.

Edited to add: Although it may have been Texas

Norm_uk

Exactly...too many illegal guns in the UK now to think bans will work. Now we need to arm and increase the police force, remove gang culture, multiculturalism and allow people the right to deadly force in defense of their homes...

N.

Ray

Yup it was Florida ...but the facts are slighty dfferent ..he did manage
to get into the house by smashing in a door.. he was as you say correctly shot and killed... when
he was confronted by the homeowner..

Of course that could happen in any State..and in many countries

I had the same happen to myself in London..when a lunatic crawled
through a very large dog flap in the kitchen door at 3 am in the morning

His screams woke me up... 3 GSDs were waiting to play with him on
the other side of the door...

he survived ...

Ray

I believe there will be more armed police in the future..although
there are more armed units currently than ever before

And yes I agree the current rule of minimum force in defence of
yourself... should be changed to ... such force as may be necessary..

Eva

Michael Fagin? Remember him? Scaled the wall of Buckingham Palace and ended up in Lillibet's bedroom(sighs of relief from Phil the Greek)
Was he shot? No. Should he have been? No..........
Would the outcome have been different if the bobbies down the Mall had been armed ? For sure.

Norm, How many mistaken identities does it take in your book to make a tragedy?
I can remember the Irishman carrying a piece of wood in the shape of a firearm who was shot not too long ago in UK.....Also a kid who was shot dead -mistaken identity in a house seige middle England recently.
Clydebank Scotland in the last decade a guy was taken out by Police Response Team- error of judgement...............
These citations are off the top of my head-gimme 5 while I google some more for ya.
A corpse can't hear an apology

Norm_uk

I suppose I should expect that sort of comment since our generation has faced neither repression or tyranny (not openly anyways)...I'm just tired of seeing our power and natural right of self defense deprived in my own land despite the fact my ancestors have gone above the call of duty to protect our fair islands over and over. If I'm paranoid I don't really care...better paranoid than dead.

Oh and people have been raped and murdered long before be guns...in fact rape and murder were extremely common before guns leveled the playing field for women and less physically capable folks.
Same with car crashes - so why bother with insurance? Same with AIDS so why bother with condoms? Same with house fires so why bother with smoke alarms and fire extinguishers?
I'd rather quote Samuel Adams than a bad actor in a good movie:

"If you love wealth more than liberty, the tranquility of servitude better than the animating contest of freedom, depart from us in peace. We ask not your counsel nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you. May your chains rest lightly upon you and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen..."


N.

Autonomy

The reason the death penalty is unconsciouable.

Norm_uk

Yup...even in the 21st Century where we can use DNA and other irrefutable evidence to convict the worst child rapists and maniacs it makes much more sense to keep them in prison until they die at the taxpayers expense

N.

Eva

Even the most sophisticated scientific methods can still be flawed 'allegedly'.

HMA -V -McKie...can you put your finger on that 21stC stated case Norm?

I agree the incidence of error can reduce the percentage of errors-however when youu have human intervention ....i.e comparisons, collecting samples etc....you can never say never...... imho