Autonomy

Putting all estimates together, by the end of 1999, the total number of guns privately owned or available for sale in the United States came to more than 260 million, nearly enough for every man, woman, and child in the country to own one. (http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/17...-CITIZENS.html)

Guns in the UK

1,360,800 Number of legal shotguns in the UK

368,658 Number of legal firearms in the UK excluding shotguns - 67% are rifles

200,000 Smallest estimate of illegal firearms in the UK, from Acpo. Other experts have estimated the number could be as high as 4m
(http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2008/jan/26/ukguns.schools)

So the US has a ratio of 1:1 population to gun and the UK at worst has 1:11 (based on 4m guns which is very high) and has 1/86th the amount of gun crime. Surely the strongest correlation appears to be the country with the highest availablity of guns has by far the highest instance of gun crime.

Autonomy

ah well - might as well shoot myself in head before you do...

Ray

Can I hire you a gun... cash in advance please

Autonomy

wire me the cash...

Eva

Can't be ...
Auto spoke of 'better' as in improvement
Utopia is perfection is it not?

Ray

Yup..and those bleedin Celestial virgin whining on about something
or other..

Eva

Whinging on- or in pain?
Probably took a stray one in the a** from a licensed gun totting
blindman lookin for the nearest campus

Norm_uk

All over the place...Eastern Europe mostly and old government and IRA stockpiles which were not destroyed, etc.

Of course with a basic workshop one can make an assault rifle and bullets are not hard to fashion if you have the materials - a high school mechanic could do it without too much trouble.

So it's obvious laws are not stopping guns coming in or being made in the UK...my point really is making more laws won't stop them either so unless we increase police numbers by 50% at least and arm all of them more and more innocent members of the public are at risk of being shot.

...unless members of the public are allowed to shoot back

N.

Meow

And these members of the public would be highly trained marksmen who would never hit an innocent bystander?

Sorry, but I just don't see that having more guns in the UK would reduce gun crime. I agree that a person has the right to defend their property, but wait until the first kid who has climbed a garden fence to fetch their ball is shot, having been mistaken for an intruder by some gun-happy Mail reader.

I think guns are hateful and the less of them in the world the better.

Rather than arming everyone, is it really too late to try and change society?


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Norm_uk

Hardly a conclusive study and it has some fairly damning criticisms (but any good study will!). However when you consider the UK has had legalised abortion for decades but has rising crime rates I think the link between abortion and crime is not clear at all and may be at best, distantly connected. I'd be more inclined to look at things like concealed firearms laws, economics and perhaps culture.

Also, most US gun crime is gang and drug related and confined to ghetto areas. You won't find heavily armed affluent people so inclined to go about their suburbs blowing each other away...it might mean getting one's golf club membership canceled and that won't do!

It's not rational to ban all handguns in the wake of one massacre either - to create such public fear of guns that our Olympic shooting teams had to train outside the UK after 1997 because they were worried they might go on a rampage

I think it's more rational to allow some citizens who are very strictly vetted the right to bear arms in order to defend themselves, their loved ones and their property from harm. Armed citizens also keep the government from getting too heavy handed - and it gives us the right to not be spineless wimps but rise up and remove any future government or foreign power which brings tyranny to our land. There are lots of European countries with lots of citizens owning guns that have very low gun crime - the Swiss for example (where most people have access to a military grade assault rifle and are trained to use it).

It might just do that. I feel better social cohesion (ie no multiculturalism which seems to disenfranchise one of the most advanced cultures in the world in favour of medieval cultures and laws) might have a positive effect too...but the government's job is not to police people's outlook or encourage hard working and grateful citizens is it?

N.

Eva

[QUOTE=Meow;6598547]And these members of the public would be highly trained marksmen who would never hit an innocent bystander?

Sorry, but I just don't see that having more guns in the UK would reduce gun crime. I agree that a person has the right to defend their property, but wait until the first kid who has climbed a garden fence to fetch their ball is shot, having been mistaken for an intruder by some gun-happy Mail reader.

I think guns are hateful and the less of them in the world the better.

Rather than arming everyone, is it really too late to try and change society?







I agree Meow
The issue of mistaken identity is causing enough heartache in the present time.

Also, supposing if quiet law-abiding people were allowed to possess firearms,sure many would choose to purchase-fear of crime and all that.And when the day comes that they are awakened by a housebreaker;they grab their firearm and present it?...........but choke and can't actually engage because of their moral dilemma over shooting someone.
Its all over for them if yer man is carrying isn't it?

What if the the law abiding citizen had never been given the choice by his Goverment and had no firearm to present-maybe the housebreaker wouldn't have shot him.

Spugsy

lets face it, any guns in the UK is a bad idea.

Worldismine

What the hell are you on about now? The only one in a hole is you, your in the whole where the suns rays dont reach

Norm_uk

Norm_uk

Hateful?
So should we destroy all guns and sit about like sheep waiting for the next Hitler or Napoleon to come and walk all over us

I mentioned Switzerland before and I'll mention it again. How much gun crime do they have there and how many people have military grade assault weapons in their homes? Also how many times has Switzerland been invaded?

N.