Black American's don't swim?
Apr 10th 2012, 3:21 pm
#17
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
Apr 10th 2012, 3:50 pm
#18
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Apr 10th 2012, 6:07 pm
#20
Joined: Jan 2012
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
The trouble is........ there may actually be a physiological or genetic reason why blacks can run short or long distances very well (100m, marathon), but are poor swimmers............. but nobody will ever know, because the very thought of researching that will immediately attract accusations of racism.............
You make two assertions which are entirely false and illustrate how much bogus mythology occludes our view of this subject.
First is that there has been no research on this. In fact it is well understood and documented.
Second is that "blacks" are good at short or long distance running. that requires some unpicking as the reality is much more complex than that.
Short distance events are dominated by black people of West African descent as they frequently tend (notice those words) to have muscles with a higher density of what is known as "fast-twitch" fibre. This helps with events requiring "explosive" performance such as sprints and long jump. This is a fairly minor physical adaptation to environment but at the very top of the scale of high performance athletics it can make a difference. Of course it is still overwhelmed by the (entirely social) critical mass effect which results in certain types of athletes getting channelled into certain types of events once they are seen to have been successful and thus go on to dominate for a period. But Australian, French and Greek athletes of no recent African heritage have won top level sprint medals in the past decade so this is just one factor not the factor in determining performance.
Oh, and sprint swimming is an explosive event so expect there to be many more Anthony Nestys in the future.
The "blacks" who dominate distance running come from a very different part of the world and bring a very different physical advantage. The Ethiopians and Kenyans (and Morrocans) who have succeeded in the stamina events all share a common characteristic: they were born and have lived all their lives at high altitudes and thus have much greater lung capacity. Particularly in the East African highlands there is a long tradition of stamina-related events and activities thus providing the perfect source for these great athletes. So, no great genetic or racial mystery - just a matter of topography.
Apr 10th 2012, 7:47 pm
#21
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
The above statement carries a clear implication that there is genetical difference, which as you say is a result of the influence of the environment over a long period of time.
Apr 11th 2012, 4:21 am
#23
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
Having lived in both Africa and America, I will pontificate on this one.
I think in both instances there is a cultural legacy, perhaps the American situation having originated in the African one but that may be over-extrapolating.
There is a very good reason not to swim in most of Africa: in fresh water it is the risk of catching the awful Schistosomiasis; in sea water it is the deadly currents that prevail around large parts of the continent, particularly West Africa, the most populous part. It's easy to see then, how cultural taboos would have formed around these very stark natural realities.
In the southern US, from where most black Americans originate, swimming was completely segregated and thus essentially a "white" activity. It is interesting to observe how these norms have persisted, perhaps out of a visceral sense of group solidarity. Many of my cosmopolitan, well-educated middle-class black friends still tend to avoid activities that are considered "too white" - skiing is another classic. That's why Tiger Woods and the Williams sisters were such significant breakthroughs in previously white-dominated activities so recently.
I would imagine in Loiusiana, the most incredibly racist place I have ever been (and that includes the rest of the south and Boer heartlands in RSA), those norms remain strongly entrenched. So swimming is not a popular activity for black kids. The distinctive practices developed over the past few decades by (in general) lower income African Americans in naming their children would also appear to be another manifestation of this group solidarity and assertion of separateness in response to exclusion. Ironic that it tends to entrench the disadvantages at which it seeks to cock a snook.
As the legendary George Clinton put it in Aqua Boogie:
"Never learned to swim, couldn't catch the rhythm of the stroke..."
I think in both instances there is a cultural legacy, perhaps the American situation having originated in the African one but that may be over-extrapolating.
There is a very good reason not to swim in most of Africa: in fresh water it is the risk of catching the awful Schistosomiasis; in sea water it is the deadly currents that prevail around large parts of the continent, particularly West Africa, the most populous part. It's easy to see then, how cultural taboos would have formed around these very stark natural realities.
In the southern US, from where most black Americans originate, swimming was completely segregated and thus essentially a "white" activity. It is interesting to observe how these norms have persisted, perhaps out of a visceral sense of group solidarity. Many of my cosmopolitan, well-educated middle-class black friends still tend to avoid activities that are considered "too white" - skiing is another classic. That's why Tiger Woods and the Williams sisters were such significant breakthroughs in previously white-dominated activities so recently.
I would imagine in Loiusiana, the most incredibly racist place I have ever been (and that includes the rest of the south and Boer heartlands in RSA), those norms remain strongly entrenched. So swimming is not a popular activity for black kids. The distinctive practices developed over the past few decades by (in general) lower income African Americans in naming their children would also appear to be another manifestation of this group solidarity and assertion of separateness in response to exclusion. Ironic that it tends to entrench the disadvantages at which it seeks to cock a snook.
As the legendary George Clinton put it in Aqua Boogie:
"Never learned to swim, couldn't catch the rhythm of the stroke..."
I think some of the things you've said above are about as patronising as someone can be to another race;
"The distinctive practices developed over the past few decades by (in general) lower income African Americans in naming their children would also appear to be another manifestation of this group solidarity and assertion of separateness in response to exclusion."
Apr 11th 2012, 4:28 am
#24
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
B. Last week I was told I am German. Now I'm African. Make your mind up time folks.
First is that there has been no research on this. In fact it is well understood and documented.
Second is that "blacks" are good at short or long distance running. that requires some unpicking as the reality is much more complex than that.
Short distance events are dominated by black people of West African descent as they frequently tend (notice those words) to have muscles with a higher density of what is known as "fast-twitch" fibre. This helps with events requiring "explosive" performance such as sprints and long jump. This is a fairly minor physical adaptation to environment but at the very top of the scale of high performance athletics it can make a difference. Of course it is still overwhelmed by the (entirely social) critical mass effect which results in certain types of athletes getting channelled into certain types of events once they are seen to have been successful and thus go on to dominate for a period. But Australian, French and Greek athletes of no recent African heritage have won top level sprint medals in the past decade so this is just one factor not the factor in determining performance.
Second is that "blacks" are good at short or long distance running. that requires some unpicking as the reality is much more complex than that.
Short distance events are dominated by black people of West African descent as they frequently tend (notice those words) to have muscles with a higher density of what is known as "fast-twitch" fibre. This helps with events requiring "explosive" performance such as sprints and long jump. This is a fairly minor physical adaptation to environment but at the very top of the scale of high performance athletics it can make a difference. Of course it is still overwhelmed by the (entirely social) critical mass effect which results in certain types of athletes getting channelled into certain types of events once they are seen to have been successful and thus go on to dominate for a period. But Australian, French and Greek athletes of no recent African heritage have won top level sprint medals in the past decade so this is just one factor not the factor in determining performance.
Apr 11th 2012, 5:52 am
#25
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
Not too many black snooker or darts players either. Not sure if that is genetics though.
As for the swimming - all the black people I know moan about dry skin and are hooked on coco butter, maybe the chlorine doesn't help. Rather than speculating I'm going to ask one of them why they don't dig the swimming.
As for the swimming - all the black people I know moan about dry skin and are hooked on coco butter, maybe the chlorine doesn't help. Rather than speculating I'm going to ask one of them why they don't dig the swimming.
Apr 11th 2012, 5:57 am
#26
Lost in BE Cyberspace
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
let us also not forget the complete inability the white man has when it comes to dancing. Have you seen a white guy try and Dougie??
Apr 11th 2012, 6:25 am
#27
Hit 16's
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
John Revolting excepted, and one absolutely humungous guy in The Cellar, you're right. I've also never seen a white woman shake her booty quite like her black sisters do, either.
Apr 11th 2012, 6:25 am
#28
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Re: Black American's don't swim?
White men can't jump, either, apparently.
Apr 11th 2012, 6:34 am
#29
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