Pistolpete2

Indeed, if we think that the problem is serious for first time buyers in general then entering the property market in London is well-nigh impossible unless you command a very high income and have the papers to prove to the prospective lender that it is steady.

Servicing your debt is another matter.

The taxation system and higher rate tax thresholds / frozen allowances and related creeping National Insurance contributions must have made things very hard at the sort of levels you expect London workers to be earning at as the stealth of payroll deduction increases means many are moving backwards financially in a world of nominal salary increases but significant inflation.

This is made all the harder by an expectation of a particular lifestyle when in London that almost demands the particular car, those trips and meals out etc. and where, and even though I personally regard it as bonkers, one can I suppose sense the real peer pressure the peritheral Notting Hill, Ladbroke Grove or Docklands brigade are under in order to fit in, even though they cannot afford it and are living on their credit cards. Conversation seems to revolve around superficial garbage as opposed to realities and few seem to jump in and try to stop another word of it being uttered.

Certainly a big ad for not living and working in London and as you say, as a result raising your quality of life/standard of living. London does not by the way feature anywhere near the top (#39 I think) in the big league of cities on the planet for quality of life in spite of its successes.

Beedubya

My niece and her fiancee bought a flat in North London about 6 months ago, so it's not impossible for first time buyers.

Though I have to say they are both in well paid jobs.

Pistolpete2

Some smart minds have been saying as much but the key is for the government to gain an appreciation of what is actually needed in the private sector so that the UK can become more competitive and benefit from the opportunities which will present themselves from the emerging economies of the BRICs and other nations. Lack of investment and stifling regulation, now made worse by extra corporate taxation being used at the very time when incentives are needed, has to be corrected pronto. For example, North Sea oil is now marginal and increasing windfall taxes on producers right now might actually cost significantly more by a long shot in investment than is raised in taxes, though of course it looks good politically.

Enterprise zones need to be carefully and proactively developed to increase the UK's already strong position in emerging/new technologies and in areas where the UK already leads in aero engineering and pharma for example. There is only so long before China and others will have the technology themselves and will not have to buy it from elsewhere.

[QUOTE
I suppose the country has been in the doldrums for more than 20 years. It was just that the previous Labour government pumped lots of cheap credit into the economy that gave an illusion of wealth.[/QUOTE]

I guess that means that post-war the country has only not been in the doldrums for about ten years.

I agree with you that the consumer expenditure generated by the UK individual's (same in the US of course) perception of additional wealth due to inflated property prices was really the only thing that kept things going through the last decade or so, though obviously unsustainable.

Pistolpete2

Good for them!

I think the bigger problem we are talking about now is that there is unlikely to be the great surge in property prices again which will make an owners' equity stake build and give them a comfort zone, even in London*. This adds to the pressure.

*It's only the Central London boroughs of Kensington & Chelsea plus maybe some of Westminster that are seeing a rise in prices at this point from foreign interest, property funds and bonus money.

johnh009

I guess that means that post-war the country has only not been in the doldrums for about ten years.

I agree with you that the consumer expenditure generated by the UK individual's (same in the US of course) perception of additional wealth due to inflated property prices was really the only thing that kept things going through the last decade or so, though obviously unsustainable.[/QUOTE]

Approximately 75% of the wealth generated by the companies on the London Stock Exchange is generated overseas. That tells you where these companies' allegiance lies. The low pound means that these companies are bring in decent profits so the macro-economic picture looks good. It is the micro-economic picture that I would question. No doubt, if you can find a decent job here and not carry too much debt then life can be good. I have used the NHS and found it to be fine, low cost prescriptions, etc. Food and clothes I find to be of good quality and relatively cheap. I suppose the big question is if the current government can turn the economy around. I would certainly say the south is in far better shape than the north, at least when looking for a job.

bandrui

Ahhh. I see. Well you're right on that count. Mind you, I'm a bit of a loner so tend to not seek out people anywhere other than my close friends.
If my parents were still alive, I would try to live close to where they lived but don't have any real desire to live close to remaining family members. Within travelling distance will do fine.

bandrui

Something that has become a question in my mind as I read this and other threads on this forum is the apparent lack of entrepreneurial spirit compared to North America (both Canada and the USA).
Here on the island for instance, there are very few jobs that people can apply for, except in the hospitality/tourism sector where young people come to the island for the summer to work. It is however, full of people who create their own employment, either in trades/service sectors, by running their own internet business from their own home or by creating products to sell at the local market.
This doesn't seem to be the case in the UK. Any comments?

sallysimmons

I don't know if entrepreneurial spirit is exactly the same in the UK, but there are certainly people running their own little businesses. I was just watching a show yesterday featuring a family who set up their own camel racing business in Warwickshire and on the less unusual end of the spectrum one of my buddies has an Internet business. Another has a side business making jams and chutneys for markets and stores.

I am in a trade association of small business owners and lots of them are in the UK.

But I just think most people in any country can't envision that way of making a living - certainly, I know lots of people here in the US who have been unemployed for ages but who would never dream of doing something on their own. They just expect to work for someone else and that's all they consider. Either they don't have the idea of what to do, or they can't bear the risk.

sallysimmons

bandrui, just after I answered you, I read this article on the Independent's website - I think you'll find it interesting.

johnh009

I would think that many people are running their own business in the UK. The large, concentrated population probably creates the perfect environment. The small shopkeeper seems to be thankfully surviving, despite the competition from the supermarkets. Those that concentrate on the niche markets seem to do a good business. As I have mentioned in previous posts, by now, with more than 50% of the homes I have enquired about, the estate agents have never got back to me. This tells me that there is plenty of opportunity out there for someone who is on the ball.

Shlexy

Hi Stuart,

I was born in the UK to Australian parents settled there. After living in the UK for ten years my parents decided to move my family back to Australia (I was 6).

I have listened to them tell people about their experience and all I can say is you need to give it a little more time. My parents went through exactly what you are feeling, were missing their friends and family and hated having to build a new life from scratch. They said it took them 6 years before they came to the conclusion that they had done the right thing moving from England.

I'm sure your circumstances are different, but my parents main reasons for wanting to move back from the UK was so my brother and I could have a better child hood; they believe Australia is a better place for children to grow up. Despite your circumstances, I think you should wait it out a little bit longer and try to settle in to things in Australia a bit more (things have a been a little crazy here lately!!! :P ). Moving back is such a huge life changing decision, just be sure it's the right one.

windsong

What an interesting article! It certainly gives inspiration.

My half-sister who just turned 70 recently started a small business in the UK making luxurious lingerie bags and knitting bags, as well as beautiful bookmarks. She hasn't sold too much yet because she is still trying to fathom out how to do all this but she is planning to get a web site now. I advised her to put her products on eBay and etsy.com. I really admire her doing this at 70 years of age.

I am trying to get her to write a gardening newsletter. She is a very good gardener although she has only worked in her own garden. She has encouraged me to grow my own veggies, too - she sent me a gardening book

I want to begin a business when I move there but I am still trying to narrow down exactly what I want to do. I think at first it will be a sideline along with full employment until I retire then I will do it full-time.

I'd like to do something in web design, graphic/digital arts or, preferably, videography, but it depends what the market is like there for these skills.

My sister suggested private tutoring so I might look into that as well since I love to teach. This is also an area I want to investigate for full-time work.

I also have a book in draft form. I'd like to finalize it and get it published. At one time I thought of publishing it on a web site along with a self-designed site and my own graphics and also add the poetry I have written to go with the story. Pay by view

I also have quite a bit of poetry that I want to publish formally.

(And to think my background education is business administration and finance!!! What a 180-degree turnaround!)

Who knows I may feel too old and too tired to do any of it unless I get there soon.

windsong

Linda - I think in the next 10 years or so you will find many new small businesses springing up in the UK. They are a bit behind the USA and Canada in this regard but regulations have loosened up a lot, I believe, and it is much easier nowadays to start a business - from what I can gather anyway.

In this regard, you and I are lucky. We have done this and we have an entrepreneurial spirit to take there with us. We can show them the way

sallysimmons

Why do you think they are behind? In my experience the UK has lots of entrepreneurs and doesn't need us to tell them what to do.

windsong

Sally, I might be quite wrong. It's just that I have never heard that the UK is as "entrepreneurial-minded" as the USA and perhaps Canada. If I am wrong, all the better!