Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
Apr 1st 2009, 9:30 pm
#106
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Apr 2nd 2009, 9:12 am
#107
Weirdo Latin Dude
Joined: Aug 2008
Location: Hotter than hell
Posts: 2,545
Apr 10th 2009, 7:52 pm
#108
Banned
Joined: Aug 2007
Location: the dry part of Washington State
Posts: 1,333
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
As Kilroy-Silk said, no Briton has ever claimed asylum in an arab country - so it follows that we should be grateful to be Brits and feel sorry for all these people trying to claim asylum.
Perhaps the UN could set up 'sanctuary land' to receive anyone from anywhere - a chunk of Somalia for instance - it has no government as such and many disputed areas - so that should be possible
That would solve the problem at a stroke with total safety for asylum seekers and no more resentments from the various countries who are taking them at the moment
The Jews had similar policy for displaced Jews which led to the birth of Israel
Perhaps the UN could set up 'sanctuary land' to receive anyone from anywhere - a chunk of Somalia for instance - it has no government as such and many disputed areas - so that should be possible
That would solve the problem at a stroke with total safety for asylum seekers and no more resentments from the various countries who are taking them at the moment
The Jews had similar policy for displaced Jews which led to the birth of Israel
Apr 10th 2009, 8:17 pm
#109
Straw Man.
Joined: Aug 2006
Location: That, there, that's not my post count... nothing to see here, move along.
Posts: 46,302
Apr 11th 2009, 2:57 am
#110
Settled.
Joined: Jul 2006
Location: St. Albert. AB.
Posts: 3,286
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
you know, no matter what else is said, good or bad, when someone quotes this guy, you know you are on a downward slope. I believe dennis the menace had some epiphanies that could also perhaps be shared.
Apr 12th 2009, 6:09 am
#111
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Australia unfortunately
Posts: 22
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
I'ts true England has been recieving immigrants since the dawn of time Huguenots,Jews,Dutch,the Flemish for hundreds and hundreds of years without completing losing its sense of self.There would have been no wool/cloth trade if the flemish didnt migrate in masses to the UK,no pottery if the dutch didnt settle in staffordshire in droves once you get to 16th century in kent every second person has french Huguenot ancestry.
Migrants come and alter things but they can never really exstinguish the place.My "english" family history goes back to before the reign of queen anne and all of the above groups are found in it including those completely native to England.The welsh loathed the flemish when they appeared to be taking over the place hundreds of years ago but look how intergrated they eventually became.
I have a unique view of this issue as I have strong English ancestry on my fathers side [they've lived in the south east since the dawn of time] and german/african/asian ancestry on my mothers[I was born in Australia though].
Many of my English Ancestors were Historians and ive inherited their devotion to english history and culture.I get that fear that people feel in the UK of losing what their ancestors so carefully preserved and sustained - my g.grandfather x4 wrote many books on the ancient oral history of Kent and East sussex,created the first libraries in Kent I would hate for their legacies to be lost.I agree that multiculturalism can be strange and wrong in some ways - taking a myriad of too many colours and merging them can leave you with a dull brown out of which nothing can be created. I hope that does'nt happen in England.But It's too late to whinge abt it,its done.
Not by choice I was born combined of everyone,one english ancestor for whatever reason decided to go to africa, colonise and completely alter forever 20,000 years or more of history,culture,tradition there,which can never be regained,a fracture that will never go away.It is strange to hear an englishman fret in anxiety over something Africa has already lost due to those colonial adventures. Had their greed never brought them there,there would be no africans,indians et al waiting at the gates of the uk for a lifestyle they had not needed until these men arrived.
Migrants come and alter things but they can never really exstinguish the place.My "english" family history goes back to before the reign of queen anne and all of the above groups are found in it including those completely native to England.The welsh loathed the flemish when they appeared to be taking over the place hundreds of years ago but look how intergrated they eventually became.
I have a unique view of this issue as I have strong English ancestry on my fathers side [they've lived in the south east since the dawn of time] and german/african/asian ancestry on my mothers[I was born in Australia though].
Many of my English Ancestors were Historians and ive inherited their devotion to english history and culture.I get that fear that people feel in the UK of losing what their ancestors so carefully preserved and sustained - my g.grandfather x4 wrote many books on the ancient oral history of Kent and East sussex,created the first libraries in Kent I would hate for their legacies to be lost.I agree that multiculturalism can be strange and wrong in some ways - taking a myriad of too many colours and merging them can leave you with a dull brown out of which nothing can be created. I hope that does'nt happen in England.But It's too late to whinge abt it,its done.
Not by choice I was born combined of everyone,one english ancestor for whatever reason decided to go to africa, colonise and completely alter forever 20,000 years or more of history,culture,tradition there,which can never be regained,a fracture that will never go away.It is strange to hear an englishman fret in anxiety over something Africa has already lost due to those colonial adventures. Had their greed never brought them there,there would be no africans,indians et al waiting at the gates of the uk for a lifestyle they had not needed until these men arrived.
I can see the logic of your argument but disagree with most of it as being a step back in time along with a large dosage of short-sightedness as well. Multicultural societies are very much the future of the human race and whether you like it or not, much of the culture that you treasure in the UK would have evolved into something very different say in the next 100 years, its called the evolution of the human race and history is littered with multiple examples of this. On the one hand you value your heritage which I won`t dispute and dislike the extremes of alien cultures in the UK, which I for one do not advocate either (I imagine you are referring to the extremities of the muslim faith here for example) What will happen though, is that these extremities will gradually devolve themselves out of these alien cultures and blend with the english culture that you hold dear and see as being at threat of gradual extinction. Hence the combining of British, hindu, muslim and african etc cultures will take place in the UK with the best attributes coming out of each. Call this process a troubled marriage but in a couple of generations the positive results should be seen and hopefully this evolution, should trigger a similiar process in some of the more insular thinking european countries as well, None of us reading this though...will be around to see the outcome.
I see that you are based in Canada the home of multiculturalism and therefore you should be aware of the richness that multiculturalism has brought to the Country, but you state that Canada fights for its survival to protect its identity
Well Canada has no identity and as such needs to import thousands of immigrants each year to constitute one, again the positive results of this should be seen in several generations time, lets face it Canada has no culture really (Quebec excepted) what it has it imports from around the world, Actually this is the best thing about the country.
and the reason why I like it.
Admittedly in the UK`s case, this is very different because there is a very old culture firmly established and as stated above its going through a troubled adolescency, France has a similiar situation to that of the UK with people crying out for their eroding culture blah blah blah. Well what do the UK and France have in common? They were the 2 biggest imperialist powers of the last several centuries, therefore people will be drawn to the richness of these two countries, you may not realize it but the culture that you hold dear has already been considerably eroded and once this process starts its almost impossible to reverse, my evidence....well its history itself .
I see that you are based in Canada the home of multiculturalism and therefore you should be aware of the richness that multiculturalism has brought to the Country, but you state that Canada fights for its survival to protect its identity
Well Canada has no identity and as such needs to import thousands of immigrants each year to constitute one, again the positive results of this should be seen in several generations time, lets face it Canada has no culture really (Quebec excepted) what it has it imports from around the world, Actually this is the best thing about the country. and the reason why I like it. Admittedly in the UK`s case, this is very different because there is a very old culture firmly established and as stated above its going through a troubled adolescency, France has a similiar situation to that of the UK with people crying out for their eroding culture blah blah blah. Well what do the UK and France have in common? They were the 2 biggest imperialist powers of the last several centuries, therefore people will be drawn to the richness of these two countries, you may not realize it but the culture that you hold dear has already been considerably eroded and once this process starts its almost impossible to reverse, my evidence....well its history itself .
Last edited by katiev; Apr 12th 2009 at 6:26 am.
Apr 12th 2009, 12:53 pm
#112
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 3,566
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
It is strange to hear an englishman fret in anxiety over something Africa has already lost due to those colonial adventures. Had their greed never brought them there,there would be no africans,indians et al waiting at the gates of the uk for a lifestyle they had not needed until these men arrived.
Feel better about that sis?
Apr 12th 2009, 1:49 pm
#113
Just Joined
Joined: Apr 2009
Location: Australia unfortunately
Posts: 22
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
Im sure when it does eventually dawn upon them dear they may be pleased to realise that the immense wealth which was created out of the resources of their respective countries is now making its way into their pockets.A small revenge certainly.I dont think they'd get any delight in eroding the culture.
Last edited by katiev; Apr 12th 2009 at 2:02 pm.
Apr 12th 2009, 2:44 pm
#114
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 203
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
Im sure when it does eventually dawn upon them dear they may be pleased to realise that the immense wealth which was created out of the resources of their respective countries is now making its way into their pockets.A small revenge certainly.I dont think they'd get any delight in eroding the culture.
I assume you have also studied the Enclosures and know all about the extreme poverty endured by my English & Welsh ancestors from the 13th to 19th century.
Oh, I don't have a problem with immigrants. They work hard but your list of immigrants to England omitted the people from Ireland (my great grandfather) & Scotland whose ancestors also now people it.
Apr 12th 2009, 3:42 pm
#115
Sloopy Frickenbutt
Joined: May 2006
Location: Its good ere Honest........
Posts: 5,225
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
..........Know matter what 
that man has balls 
Apr 12th 2009, 8:22 pm
#116
Just hanging around
Joined: May 2008
Location: Back in England
Posts: 1,447
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
If you know so much about English & Welsh history, then you will surely know that this "immense wealth" did not make it into the pockets of the peasant/serf/working class/lower orders. This wealth was mainly enjoyed by the aristocrats & robber barons of that time.
I assume you have also studied the Enclosures and know all about the extreme poverty endured by my English & Welsh ancestors from the 13th to 19th century.
I assume you have also studied the Enclosures and know all about the extreme poverty endured by my English & Welsh ancestors from the 13th to 19th century.
So if Europeans bettered themselves by moving to North America, they did it by being "robber barons" and aspired to be aristocrats, which is why the idea of large tracts of land was like opium to them. Large tracts of land they took because after all those savages weren't doing anything with it.
As for enclosures, that is a very complex subject, but certainly in some places people were starving to death in the countryside because of the old farming methods couldn't keep up with increasing population. Those old ways made more efficient agriculture and animal breeding impossible and as I said, people suffered.
Bev
Apr 13th 2009, 9:08 am
#117
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Location: back in bonnie scotland
Posts: 342
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
just been thinking about muticulturism etc and the way i see it if you go back to the begining, all modern humans evolved from archaic humans primarily in East Africa -195,000 years ago.showed up in Tanzania - 150,000 years ago.South Africa - 115,000 years ago. South West Asia - 100,000 years ago. evidently they didnt show up in the old world until - 60,000 to 40,000 years ago..This was due to a short temperate period in the middle of last ice age. So all humans come from Africa by annalysis of dna and fossiles.they did DNA testing on people in UK i think a year or so ago and found whites had the DNA that could be traced back. Bit of a bugger if you are in National Front and this wammy showed up or in the KK Clan in America eh!!! Don't have a problem with multiculturism etc as long as everyone pays their way and treats their fellow humans with compassion.Sorry to wander off the thread.
Last edited by aasmith1957; Apr 13th 2009 at 9:27 am.
Apr 13th 2009, 9:31 am
#118
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Location: back in bonnie scotland
Posts: 342
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
what about the highland clearances in Scotland?
Apr 13th 2009, 10:13 am
#119
Forum Regular
Joined: Nov 2008
Location: Prince Edward Island
Posts: 203
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
Bev I agree with everything you write. I was simply making the point that the English poor/working classes whatever, existed despite the "immense wealth" created by the empire. Unless I am misreading the post, she also seems to think that the Empire belonged England.
aasmith I didn't mention the Clearances because I was responding to a point made about England. Most of my Canadian friends have surnames originating from the Highlands.
aasmith I didn't mention the Clearances because I was responding to a point made about England. Most of my Canadian friends have surnames originating from the Highlands.
Apr 13th 2009, 11:01 am
#120
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2008
Location: back in bonnie scotland
Posts: 342
Re: Let's face it... Britain isn't so bad over all
just added about the highland clearances seeing it mentioned the welsh and the irish.(probably due to being a scot myself).