Future of the NHS

Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:08 am
  #61  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
That part has been adopted by the Tories.

The pound has collapsed, mainly due to QE (started by Labour, continued by Tories). Budget deficit has been greatly higher each year of the ConDem government. The QE approach has not only failed, it's also given more money to banks (those who caused the problems in the first place) and taken away from people (who are in a continuing cost of living crisis that is getting worse and worse).
A nice little graph of the UK's debt as a proportion of GDP. Brown's fault? Hmm, only to the extent he had control over the great recession. The proportion remained pretty constant (actually falling a little) over the course of the Labour government until the financial crisis hit.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UK_National_Debt.svg

Last edited by Giantaxe; Mar 25th 2014 at 4:10 am.
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:20 am
  #62  
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: The REAL Utopia.
Posts: 9,910
chris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Editha
We might have been unlucky (the bad experiences that influence my view of the NHS include my husband and father's as well as my own). But, I think probably not.

To give the example of my husband: he consulted his UK GP several times about minor skin infections which would not clear up. He was prescribed creams which were useless, and on one occasions antibiotics which were inappropriate and which caused an allergic reaction. In Canada, his GP wanted to know why my husband kept getting these infections, and ordered a blood screen which picked up a serious underlying disease.

The difference between the two GPs could just be one of competence, but I think there is also a different culture. GPs in the UK act as gatekeepers to resources and are more reluctant to order tests.
Of course I can only comment on our own experiences, maybe we are just very lucky to have stumbled on such a good local surgery ? GP's are human therefore prone to variability as in any other profession.
chris955 is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:38 am
  #63  
Ping-ponger
 
dunroving's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,024
dunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by roaringmouse
That part has been adopted by the Tories.

The pound has collapsed, mainly due to QE (started by Labour, continued by Tories). Budget deficit has been greatly higher each year of the ConDem government. The QE approach has not only failed, it's also given more money to banks (those who caused the problems in the first place) and taken away from people (who are in a continuing cost of living crisis that is getting worse and worse).
- against which currency/ies? It's at traditional exchange rates against the USD... although admittedly it did have a 2-year high/blip back in 2006-2008 (ish).
dunroving is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:45 am
  #64  
BE Forum Addict
 
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 3,396
roaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond reputeroaringmouse has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by dunroving
- against which currency/ies? It's at traditional exchange rates against the USD... although admittedly it did have a 2-year high/blip back in 2006-2008 (ish).
USD has also experienced QE - comparing GBP to USD is comparing two currencies devalued over a similar period.
roaringmouse is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:51 am
  #65  
Banned
 
Joined: Jan 2011
Location: The REAL Utopia.
Posts: 9,910
chris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond reputechris955 has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by dunroving
- against which currency/ies? It's at traditional exchange rates against the USD... although admittedly it did have a 2-year high/blip back in 2006-2008 (ish).
The £ is also getting back to the traditional rate against the AUD as well and several other currencies from what I can see.
chris955 is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 4:56 am
  #66  
BE Forum Addict
 
bigglesworth's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Charente - still smiling.
Posts: 2,624
bigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Against the old Euro it is about 5 percent below its forty year average. So normal ranging.

Difficult to gauge against the present Euro, as the Eastern parts were effectively fixed rates for much of that time.

Wonder what will happen if Germany is indeed ready to approve QE?
bigglesworth is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 5:12 am
  #67  
BE Forum Addict
 
bigglesworth's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Charente - still smiling.
Posts: 2,624
bigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
You're being too harsh on Brown and somewhat too soft on the current coalition. The reality is more nuanced in that the deficit went up to the level it did almost completely because of the financial crisis, with the bailing out of the banks (which you're strangely silent about) being a major contributor.



An ill thought out privatization that Brown inherited from the prior Conservative government!
Why would anyone include the bank bailouts? They are not generally counted in the deficit.
If they were, the deficit under Brown would have been over 100 percent. But that would not have helped understanding, would it?

And how on earth was the forced nationalisation (and theft from the shareholders) of Network Rail by Stephen Byers a Conservative policy? They had been out of office for five years when Railtrack went under.
bigglesworth is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 5:18 am
  #68  
BE Forum Addict
Thread Starter
 
Joined: Oct 2010
Location: The sunshine state
Posts: 1,358
Bud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond reputeBud the Wiser has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

The NHS in 2030...........

http://www.hsj.co.uk/home/innovation...e#.UzG1N2dOW1s

Don't fancy nipping into Aldi for a full body scan though.
Bud the Wiser is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 5:26 am
  #69  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
Why would anyone include the bank bailouts? They are not generally counted in the deficit.
If they were, the deficit under Brown would have been over 100 percent. But that would not have helped understanding, would it?
"Since 2008, when the British economy slowed sharply and fell into recession, the national debt has risen dramatically, mainly caused by increased spending on welfare benefits, bank bailouts, and a significant drop in receipts from stamp duty and income tax."

"As a result of the 2007–2010 financial crisis and the late-2000s global recession government spending increased to a historically high level of 48 per cent of GDP in 2009–10, partly as a result of the cost of a series of bank bailouts."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._national_debt

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
And how on earth was the forced nationalisation (and theft from the shareholders) of Network Rail by Stephen Byers a Conservative policy? They had been out of office for five years when Railtrack went under.
Huh? Did you even read what I wrote?

Last edited by Giantaxe; Mar 25th 2014 at 5:33 am.
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 5:34 am
  #70  
BE Forum Addict
 
bigglesworth's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Charente - still smiling.
Posts: 2,624
bigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

It is the technology that gives me hope. When I read that they are printing replacement bones, well.....

Much medicine is pretty routine, and could be performed by an intelligent machine. The knowledge based nursing that has spread across the UK is likely be be eminently replaceable. The softer skills probably cannot. So the nursing/caring,the bedside manner will probably be more highly prized. As for doctors -
It will be at the margin that judgment will be required.

The downside of course is that if Moores law continues, it is difficult to see a human occupation that could not be replaced. Perhaps florists will become more valuable than lawyers.
bigglesworth is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 5:39 am
  #71  
Ping-ponger
 
dunroving's Avatar
 
Joined: Jul 2002
Location: Dreich Alba
Posts: 12,024
dunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond reputedunroving has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
It is the technology that gives me hope. When I read that they are printing replacement bones, well.....

Much medicine is pretty routine, and could be performed by an intelligent machine. The knowledge based nursing that has spread across the UK is likely be be eminently replaceable. The softer skills probably cannot. So the nursing/caring,the bedside manner will probably be more highly prized. As for doctors -
It will be at the margin that judgment will be required.

The downside of course is that if Moores law continues, it is difficult to see a human occupation that could not be replaced. Perhaps florists will become more valuable than lawyers.
Lawyers are one of those professions who seem to spend half their energy making a case for themselves being "valuable". A bit like university professors. We could lose a good 50% of both and not be any worse off as a society, IMO.

I personally value the following:

Police
Fire service
Nurses
Bin men

Far more than the following:

Lawyers
Politicians
Estate agents
Bankers
dunroving is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 5:55 am
  #72  
BE Forum Addict
 
bigglesworth's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Charente - still smiling.
Posts: 2,624
bigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
"Since 2008, when the British economy slowed sharply and fell into recession, the national debt has risen dramatically, mainly caused by increased spending on welfare benefits, bank bailouts, and a significant drop in receipts from stamp duty and income tax."

"As a result of the 2007–2010 financial crisis and the late-2000s global recession government spending increased to a historically high level of 48 per cent of GDP in 2009–10, partly as a result of the cost of a series of bank bailouts."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United..._national_debt



Huh? Did you even read what I wrote?
The bank bailouts totalled about a thousand billion sterling (or US trillion) and the UK economy was between 1.2 trillion and 1.4 trillion. Are you saying therefore thatthey comprised over 100 percent of the UK debt?

As the total committed is now down to about 500 billion the current deficit is in reality many percentage points worse?


You said "An ill thought out privatization that Brown inherited from the prior Conservative government!" Sorry - your meaning was far from clear. The status of National Rail as a Public Interest Company or some such, and its corporate status was NOT under discussion, nor was it my point, but rather the effect on debt. Which is the subject under discussion?
bigglesworth is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 6:01 am
  #73  
BE Forum Addict
 
bigglesworth's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Charente - still smiling.
Posts: 2,624
bigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by dunroving
Lawyers are one of those professions who seem to spend half their energy making a case for themselves being "valuable". A bit like university professors. We could lose a good 50% of both and not be any worse off as a society, IMO.

I personally value the following:

Police
Fire service
Nurses
Bin men

Far more than the following:

Lawyers
Politicians
Estate agents
Bankers
Interesting to speculate how many of those jobs/professions will remain. Three of the last four will definitely go far sooner than they imagine. But Politicians -somehow I think they will be like that 5 billion year old fungus in New York State. Nobody knows why it is there but it keeps growing.
Nurses - Yes but the academic part probably not.
Fire service -definitely gone.
Police - Robocop
Bin men is interesting. I was reading today about a chap who was on the bins in the 70s and 80s and rescued huge numbers of photos from the bins of old soldiers who had passed away. So that is an occupation that might well attract higher status than it does now.
bigglesworth is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 10:20 am
  #74  
Lost in BE Cyberspace
 
Joined: Jan 2006
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 12,884
Giantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond reputeGiantaxe has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
The bank bailouts totalled about a thousand billion sterling (or US trillion) and the UK economy was between 1.2 trillion and 1.4 trillion. Are you saying therefore thatthey comprised over 100 percent of the UK debt?
I'm saying that bank bailout costs were a significant contributor towards the large increase in the national debt to GDP ratio in 2008 onwards.

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
You said "An ill thought out privatization that Brown inherited from the prior Conservative government!" Sorry - your meaning was far from clear. The status of National Rail as a Public Interest Company or some such, and its corporate status was NOT under discussion, nor was it my point, but rather the effect on debt. Which is the subject under discussion?
Your implication was that that the effect of the Railtrack/National Rail debacle on debt could be laid at the foot of the Labour government. Which carefully ignores that that mess was created by the initial flawed privatization of Railtrack in the early '90's. I don't recall a Labour government being in power at that point. Or perhaps you would have preferred a situation where Railtrack " had no idea how many more 'Hatfields' were waiting to happen" to continue.

I'm actually a big fan of rail service privatization, but quite why the Major government felt the need to privatize track as well is unclear. After all, we have hardly any privatized roads.

Last edited by Giantaxe; Mar 25th 2014 at 11:00 am.
Giantaxe is offline  
Old Mar 25th 2014, 8:23 pm
  #75  
BE Forum Addict
 
bigglesworth's Avatar
 
Joined: Jan 2008
Location: The Charente - still smiling.
Posts: 2,624
bigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond reputebigglesworth has a reputation beyond repute
Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Giantaxe
I'm saying that bank bailout costs were a significant contributor towards the large increase in the national debt to GDP ratio in 2008 onwards.

But the numbers say the opposite

Your implication was that that the effect of the Railtrack/National Rail debacle on debt could be laid at the foot of the Labour government. Which carefully ignores that that mess was created by the initial flawed privatization of Railtrack in the early '90's. I don't recall a Labour government being in power at that point. Or perhaps you would have preferred a situation where Railtrack " had no idea how many more 'Hatfields' were waiting to happen" to continue.

that is an entirely subjective judgement. The Labour Government took a deliberate decision NOT to renationalise the Railways, but to so hem them in with regulation that the effect was the same. This has been a matter of record for over ten years.

I'm actually a big fan of rail service privatization, but quite why the Major government felt the need to privatize track as well is unclear. After all, we have hardly any privatized roads.
The Major Government had no choice. It was an EU requirement.
bigglesworth is offline  

Contact Us - Manage Preferences Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Your Privacy Choices -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.