Future of the NHS

Old Mar 23rd 2014, 10:51 pm
  #31  
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by holly_1948
It does not matter that they want their gold. It matters that, for whatever reason, they demanded part of their gold from the USA and were substantially refused, receiving only 2.5% of it of which only a tenth of that (5 tonnes) was shipped from the USA where more than half of it is supposed to be. It matters that the explanation for the refusal is not credible despite face saving attempts at cover up in both Germany and USA.

Anyway, back to the NHS. A stable future is largely out of the hands of government, the world is changing rapidly.
I think what you mean is that most countries are now utterly saddled with public sector debt. The UK has it's own problems, quite separate from what is going on globally.

As a result of that, there is precious little room for socialism or social programmes. Both main parties clearly see this but wouldn't necessarily mention it going into an election. It's interesting that in the UK, LABOUR are trying to trump The Tories, with the level of benefits caps.

The weekend's newspapers are pointing to the lack of funding for medical services on the front line, namely GPs, giving rise to collapse of NHS services as we know it. The money is all now having to go towards hospital services which are in themselves becoming overwhelmed if only by longer care needs for the aging population.

As returnees in some fashion - full time then possibly part-time in a few years, we are having to re-think the way we are going to avail ourselves of medical services, particularly as it relates to access to GPs which one can usually see within half an hour of showing up without an appointment here in the Caribbean - costs about 35 pounds per visit, if bare for insurance.

Last edited by Pistolpete2; Mar 23rd 2014 at 10:57 pm. Reason: Both main parties clearly see this but wouldn't
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Old Mar 23rd 2014, 11:29 pm
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Here in France - possibly the most socialist country in Europe- we pay 24 euros for a visit to the GP.
We also pay social charges. In our case we pay National Insurance in the UK (because I return there to work) which pays our French social charge.
Social charges pay 75 percent of most things (very approximately).
Then everybody buys a top up private insurance (a mutuelle), which covers most of the balance
Social charges refund 15 Euros of the GP cost and our mutuelle 7 I think. The other two we pay.
Social security steps in for those out of work, retired, or unable for some other reason. Not sure how that works for the mutuelle part, but it is generally accepted here that everyone should pay something.
Although it is still a well paid profession, Doctors are paid a fraction of what they earn in the UK, as are nurses. The practice rooms are clean, but were last decorated twenty years ago, The furniture is serviceable, but a UK practice would have binned them thirty years ago.
I have had none of this nonsense common nowadays in the UK, whereby you have to wait weeks for an appointment. If my GP cannot see someone on the day, then all you have to do is tell the reception that it is urgent. The doctor calls you an hour or two later, and if he agrees he sees you that day. Just don't exaggerate, or he won't see you the next time.
Works pretty well.

Last edited by bigglesworth; Mar 23rd 2014 at 11:31 pm. Reason: spelling on french keyboard!
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 2:22 am
  #33  
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
I have had none of this nonsense common nowadays in the UK, whereby you have to wait weeks for an appointment. If my GP cannot see someone on the day, then all you have to do is tell the reception that it is urgent. The doctor calls you an hour or two later, and if he agrees he sees you that day. Just don't exaggerate, or he won't see you the next time.
Works pretty well.
This seems to be the big issue, becoming ever bigger AND when you do actually get to see the doctor it is all of a rush to get you out the door as the next chicken is waiting.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 2:32 am
  #34  
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Pistolpete2

As returnees in some fashion - full time then possibly part-time in a few years, we are having to re-think the way we are going to avail ourselves of medical services, particularly as it relates to access to GPs which one can usually see within half an hour of showing up without an appointment here in the Caribbean - costs about 35 pounds per visit, if bare for insurance.
Sorry, this is PRIVATE health here in St Lucia. If you live here (spend over six months in any given year here) you can avail yourself of community health services at no charge, incl dental, plus cheaper prescription drugs than are available in a pharmacy.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 2:33 am
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by bigglesworth
Here in France - possibly the most socialist country in Europe- we pay 24 euros for a visit to the GP.
We also pay social charges. In our case we pay National Insurance in the UK (because I return there to work) which pays our French social charge.
Social charges pay 75 percent of most things (very approximately).
Then everybody buys a top up private insurance (a mutuelle), which covers most of the balance
Social charges refund 15 Euros of the GP cost and our mutuelle 7 I think. The other two we pay.
Social security steps in for those out of work, retired, or unable for some other reason. Not sure how that works for the mutuelle part, but it is generally accepted here that everyone should pay something.
Although it is still a well paid profession, Doctors are paid a fraction of what they earn in the UK, as are nurses. The practice rooms are clean, but were last decorated twenty years ago, The furniture is serviceable, but a UK practice would have binned them thirty years ago.
I have had none of this nonsense common nowadays in the UK, whereby you have to wait weeks for an appointment. If my GP cannot see someone on the day, then all you have to do is tell the reception that it is urgent. The doctor calls you an hour or two later, and if he agrees he sees you that day. Just don't exaggerate, or he won't see you the next time.
Works pretty well.
Is it a regional thing do you think ? We certainly dont have to wait weeks for an appointment or usually not even days. If I want to see my preferred doctor who only does 2 days a week it can be a couple of weeks but if it is for something non specific it can often be the same day or the next.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 2:56 am
  #36  
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
I think what you mean is that most countries are now utterly saddled with public sector debt. The UK has it's own problems, quite separate from what is going on globally.

As a result of that, there is precious little room for socialism or social programmes. ...
Putting this in context, I think it is worth pointing out that at the point the NHS was set up in 1945, the UK was a lot more in debt, as a percentage of GDP, than it is now.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 3:18 am
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Editha
Putting this in context, I think it is worth pointing out that at the point the NHS was set up in 1945, the UK was a lot more in debt, as a percentage of GDP, than it is now.
I'm not sure what that is saying .

The UK is at present in a hole to the annual tune of 100 billion pounds and though the OBR predicts this will largely disappear by 2018, the accumulated debt will still remain.

Post WW2 the UK economy was off the rails and it was possible to get it back on track.

In 1946 pretty much everything was still 'made in Birmingham'.

Now we are talking about western economies which have yet to find a role in the globalised structure which will sustain them when functioning without near zero interest rates while trying to tackle social programmes that are at or near breaking point largely due to changes in demographics and other increased demand on those programmes.

It's not like we've been there before.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 3:29 am
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Pistolpete2
I'm not sure what that is saying .

The UK is at present in a hole to the annual tune of 100 billion pounds and though the OBR predicts this will largely disappear by 2018, the accumulated debt will still remain.

Post WW2 the UK economy was off the rails and it was possible to get it back on track.

In 1946 pretty much everything was still 'made in Birmingham'.

Now we are talking about western economies which have yet to find a role in the globalised structure which will sustain them when functioning without near zero interest rates while trying to tackle social programmes that are at or near breaking point largely due to changes in demographics and other increased demand on those programmes.

It's not like we've been there before.
I don't disagree with you, and you've also missed out that the UK was bailed out by the Anglo-American loan (which it blew on setting up the welfare state, instead of re-tooling industry).

However, I think we are still a long way from being unable to afford a welfare system. Our present levels of deficit and debt notwithstanding, the UK is still one of the richest countries in the world.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 3:59 am
  #39  
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by holly_1948
It does not matter that they want their gold. It matters that, for whatever reason, they demanded part of their gold from the USA and were substantially refused, receiving only 2.5% of it of which only a tenth of that (5 tonnes) was shipped from the USA where more than half of it is supposed to be. It matters that the explanation for the refusal is not credible despite face saving attempts at cover up in both Germany and USA.
You don't package a ton of gold in boxes, insure it, and ship it via UPS. I suspect the problem is more of a matter of logistics than anything else. Getting it from France is probably much easier either by rail or truck with a large security detail.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 5:49 am
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Editha
I don't disagree with you, and you've also missed out that the UK was bailed out by the Anglo-American loan (which it blew on setting up the welfare state, instead of re-tooling industry).

However, I think we are still a long way from being unable to afford a welfare system. Our present levels of deficit and debt notwithstanding, the UK is still one of the richest countries in the world.
I think your last point is one that is often missed or deliberately forgotten. It's why I laugh when some say the UK is bankrupt, they have no clue.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 5:56 am
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Originally Posted by Michael
You don't package a ton of gold in boxes, insure it, and ship it via UPS. I suspect the problem is more of a matter of logistics than anything else. Getting it from France is probably much easier either by rail or truck with a large security detail.
I'm still trying to deduce wtf this has to do with the future the NHS.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 6:02 am
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

The UK isn't bankrupt, it's just in debt up to its eyeballs. There's a subtle difference.

I don't think the NHS is about to disintegrate before our eyes but is it sorely stretched and underfunded.

I'm lucky enough to live in an area where health care is pretty efficient but I recognise there are many areas that are a lot worse off (I lived in one when I first came back to the UK). Never quite figured out how it can be that way.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 6:38 am
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

I'm not a big fan of the NHS. I appreciate that we are lucky in the UK compared with the USA, but if health care was the only factor in deciding where to live, I'd move to France or Germany or just stay in Canada, though the waiting lists for operations here worry me.

My experience of NHS care for myself and members of my family, in the decade before I left in '06, was dire, particularly of the GP service. My GP here in Edmonton is in a different league to any I had in the UK. She has picked up a serious condition that my husband suffers from, that his GP in the UK could have diagnosed through a simple blood test that he never ordered. She also orders the right test to monitor my chronic condition, instead of the wrong one used by my UK GP, and as a result my own health has improved enormously.

I don't have the skill or knowledge to analyse exactly why I've had better health care in Alberta. It might just be that I've been lucky with my GP here and was unlucky in the UK. But I'm returning to the UK more enthusiastic about introducing competition into the NHS through private tendering, and shaking up some of the complacency that seems to exist among NHS staff.
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 9:06 pm
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

We cannot afford a Health Service but we can afford interventionist wars in Iraq and Afghanistan ? Public debt ("The National Debt") is not a new phenomenon. The reality is that the Old Etonians who govern us want to screw us down !
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Old Mar 24th 2014, 10:04 pm
  #45  
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Default Re: Future of the NHS

Rather than the last lot of self seeking numpties who screwed everything up?

The IEA estimate that tax rises of a further 15 percent or spending cuts of 20 percent of gross are needed within the next five years to pay for the mess left by the last Government. The deficit was running at ELEVEN percent a year (compared to 5 now). It is entirely possible that the mess they left is so great that it simply cannot be fixed.

Perhaps we need more Etonians, not fewer. We certainly dont need any more old Fettesians.

The NHS is in crisis because we are all living longer and there isn't enough money to pay for all the treatments we all need.


Just remind us who it was who said "Dear chief secretary, I'm afraid there is no money. Kind regards - and good luck! "
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