Re: Future of the NHS
 

Ding dong Avon calling.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Oh Please, Don't fall for that old " I told you so", debating trick, you're better than that.

Back on topic.

That survey can be shot to pieces simply by looking at the source of the survey. Check out their website and read the 'about us' section.

UK ranks 18th in the WHO ratings. Still commendable, but probably more accurate.

And what about this paragraph from the Guardian's comment on the article....

"The only serious black mark against the NHS was its poor record on keeping people alive. On a composite "healthy lives" score, which includes deaths among infants and patients who would have survived had they received timely and effective healthcare, the UK came 10th. The authors say that the healthcare system cannot be solely blamed for this issue, which is strongly influenced by social and economic factors."

Poor record of keeping people alive. I'd say that was fundamental in providing good health care, regardless of the excuse they give in the last line

Most of the other Questions on the survey are based on peoples perceptions, not facts.

The NHS is brilliant and I for one wish more countries would either adopt the NHS system or at least emulate its standard, but to glorify reports that have a , not to well hidden, bias, should not disguise the fact that the NHS will need some serious reform in the not to distant future.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

"The Commonwealth Fund is a private foundation that aims to promote a high performing health care system that achieves better access, improved quality, and greater efficiency, particularly for society's most vulnerable, including low-income people, the uninsured, minority Americans, young children, and elderly adults."

How do those objectives "shoot to pieces" this survey?

How so?

"Poor record of keeping people alive" is The Guardian's choice of words, not the report's. And how is that an excuse? A description of the methodology notes that it includes "healthy life expectancy at age 60". There are a ton of factors that influence that beyond healthcare - poor diet and alcohol use being two obvious examples with regard to the UK.

Or people's actual experiences such as whether they ended up in an emergency room for a condition that could have been treated by a primary care physician. Survey result? yes Perception? Er, no.

Or information from WHO and the OECD, the former of which you yourself quote.

Personally I'll take the Commonwealth Funds biaises over yours if your post is anything to go by.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Point one: With that objective, they are hardly going to be anything but bias as to findings that suit their agenda.

Point two: Good question. Why would the WHO have any bias?

Point three: If you accept that excuse, then you are saying that socio and economic factors in the UK are that bad that they contribute to the NHS having a bad record of keeping people alive. I don't accept that.

Point four: Peoples perceptions ( and experiences ) often differ from the actual facts. You can see that from all over these forums on a variety of subjects.

I have no bias, never have had. Neither do I take everything I read as gospel and above all, I'm happy to change my mind if persuaded otherwise. That survey just doesn't do it, not by a long shot.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

And what specifically do you think their agenda is?

Lol.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Apart from poor diet and alcohol, having just returned, I am amazed at the numbers of people who still smoke!

Re: Future of the NHS
 

:rofl::rofl::rofl:

You obviously have no insight or self awareness either:rofl:

Re: Future of the NHS
 

<<<@!1!@>>>

"The Commonwealth Fund is a private foundation that aims to promote a high performing health care system that achieves better access, improved quality, and greater efficiency, particularly for society's most vulnerable, including low-income people, the uninsured, minority Americans, young children, and elderly adults."

An admiral agenda and one that I would support. However, it's highly unlikely that they are going to come up with and publish a survey that would not fit in well with those aims.

Still prefer to put more credence to the WHO rankings, wouldn't you?

or this one.........

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Euro_health_consumer_index
I've no doubt there's a health survey somewhere to suit everyone's predisposition, the danger with the commonwealth fund survey is that those in power will use it to justify doing nothing. As the old saying goes, " A man hears what he wants to hear........."

Re: Future of the NHS
 

What you haven't explained is why their "agenda" would put the UK at the top of the ranking, ahead of, say, France. Or any of the other countries in the survey bar the US (and perhaps Canada). After all, all the countries in that survey bar the US have universal healthcare of some form or other, and all provide help to low income and very sick people to gain access. I made no claims about the NHS one way or the other, but your dismissal of this survey based on the Commonwealth Fund's objectives really shows up your own biases.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Simple, the whole survey and the sources of information are designed to influence American policy and I'm sure if you asked most American citizens if they knew of any other health care system the first answers would overwhelmingly be the British system. VOILA !!! The winner in the survey fits in nicely with the agenda.

No bias, simply seeing beyond the figures and looking for the reasons behind them.

Do you think this survey is more accurate than the WHO rankings?

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Huh? Anyone with half a brain cell knows that the "British system" of a single provider (the government) will never happen in the US. During the ACA debate there was never any discussion of such system being established here. Lots of people would like to see a single payer system here, aka "Medicare for all" but that's much closer to the model employed by countries such as France, Germany and Switzerland etc.

Voila, your argument makes no sense.

I have no idea.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Absolutely bizarre.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Agreed, but that doesn't stop people pushing their agenda. A negotiating tactic. Ask for more than you're going to receive and settle for something in between. A compromise between the two.

Go on have a guess. A group with a hidden agenda or the WHO?

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Not at all.

Re: Future of the NHS
 

Given that the NHS was a lightning rod for criticism during the ACA, that makes so much sense compared to pushing for... what you actually want. :huh:

What group has a "hidden agenda" of promoting the NHS? Really, your argument is, as Sally Redux says, absolutely bizarre.