England calling
Jun 24th 2015, 5:25 pm
#61
Home and Happy
Joined: Dec 2002
Location: Keep true friends and puppets close, trust no-one else...
Posts: 93,814
Re: England calling
The Aldi and Lidl I know sell stuff other than food - that may be their primary area but they sell other stuff besides.
Jun 24th 2015, 5:30 pm
#62
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: England calling
Yes, Lidl have a sort of 'junk bin' of miscellaneous things - usually a few household goods at discount prices. But they don't have a automotive department, or a garden department, or a Home appliances department, or a tools department, or an electrical department, or a clothing department...
Jun 24th 2015, 5:56 pm
#63
The Brit is back
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: NS, Canada 2007-2013. Now....England!
Posts: 2,211
Re: England calling
Yes, every country has roads, shops, museums, football, etc. But that's extremely simplistic. And since you brought it up... 
If you are European, and travel to the US (and almost equally to the UK), it is quite visibly far more 'commercialised'. You will find a far greater occurrence of mega-stores, chain restaurants, shopping malls... everywhere, really. Advertising is remarkably more 'heavy-handed' and 'pushy'... I read somewhere that the density of 'chain' restaurants (including fast food) in US cities is something like 1 per sq. mile (and it does seem that way at times). In Britain it's probably a little less than that but not much, but here, it's perhaps 1 per 50 sq. kilometers. Americans and Brits are both demonstrably much more 'consumer-ish', and it's very obvious.
As you yourself know, Moses, Germans in particular are quite averse to big commercialism and blatantly hard sell. And the Spanish, well, forget it. Mega-discount-stores like Wal-Mart failed miserably in Germany. It just didn't suit them. Too much in one place. For tools, you go to the tool shop. For food, you go to the food shop. For bikes, you go to the bike shop... For automobile accessories, you go to the auto accessories store. Simples (?).
You will also find a dramatic difference in behaviour. For example, both Brits and Americans are well-known for their party and drinking culture.
I could point out a local example, Magaluf, which has become one of the wildest, most controversial (drunken) party resorts in Europe - and it's entirely British. We don't have many yanks here, but Magaluf is often compared to the American 'spring break' activities in Florida, Cabo San Lucas, and Cancun. Magaluf is not unlike a sunny Brighton or Blackpool - or Vegas for that matter. Flashing neon and loud music dominates the streets, every major fast-food brand on every corner, Everybody offering €1 pints, Fish & Chips, full English breakfasts...
On the other hand, most Europeans - especially the Spanish - are very moderate drinkers. Yes, they consume wine for lunch, and might put a bit of rum in their coffee, but I have yet to encounter a drunken Spaniard. Germans drink a bit more, but nothing like the Brits. Some Americans visited us a couple years back, and we were shocked at how much they could drink. From the afternoon to all night long. It's not really a criticism, because it was some of the best fun I'd had in years! Just an observation, that's all.
Speaking of that, Brits overwhelmingly prefer to be surrounded by British things on their hols abroad - and even the Brits who settle here overwhelmingly congregate almost exclusively in distinctly British communities where they can effectively enjoy 'Britain in the sun'. They don't have to learn a new language, they have easy access to F&C, HP sauce, Branston pickle, and can always get roast beef & pud on Sunday.
Most of the Brits we are friends with come from a more 'international' mindset, but we know a few who whinge endlessly about how 'un-British' everything is here. From the 'crap Spanish food' and the lack of Morrison's or Tesco or shopping malls, to 'crap Spanish beer', to those arrogant Spanish refusing to speak English, Spanish idiot drivers - because they drive on the 'wrong side of the road'.. They only buy food in (very expensive) British shops, refuse to speak a word of Spanish, and have never been to a local festival or market.
Germans, on the other hand, are far more likely to settle in non-German communities, preferring to blend in with the local culture. We have a lot of Germans around - especially in the outback. Most become fluent in Spanish, adopt local cuisine, attend local fiestas.. etc. Integrate into the community.
And whilst there are a few German-oriented holiday hotspots here, what's different is that whilst you will largely only find Brits in designated British resorts, you will find Germans, Scandinavians, Spanish, Italians, French and virtually all other Europeans everywhere. There really isn't much of a nationality distinction - except for the Brits.
Work - Yes, of course Europeans work, but the work culture is markedly different.
You mentioned Germans... Well, for me, one of the most pronounced differences is that Germans are much more process oriented - and most Americans and British expats working in Germany have to get used to this eventually (read the expat forums in Germany). And the chain of command is a bit more rigorous - you aren't supposed to address your boss by their first name, etc..
But Results are less important than following the proper process. A German plumber cannot remove a socket cover or flip the electricity off if he needs to connect an appliance. Only a certified electrician can do that.
Virtually any business you want to start in Germany requires some sort of university degree. The official stamp is the most important thing. Your actual skills are secondary. If you have the stamp, it is adequate proof that you are skilled, even if you have never done the job.
Brits and Americans, on the other hand, are far more results oriented. The object is achieving the desired result, rather than following a defined process. They are far more interested in simply getting the job done - right. American or British plumbers have the skills, can, and will flip the electricity off to install an appliance. You need not call the electrician.
Spanish - well, I reckon you could argue that they too are 'results' oriented. "Just put a little glue on it. That'll hold it up".
"Just twist these wires together and put a little tape over it"...
But all kidding aside, the Spanish have a very different work and lifestyle ethic. In at 9:30 or 10:00, out at 13:30 (for siesta), back at 16:30 and work till 20:00. Then go home, read the paper, and eat at 22:00. On the weekends, it's the restaurant from 22:00 to 12:30, then maybe a drink at the local bar till 01:30 or 2:00.
Anyway, that says a lot about cultural differences.
So, if you're moving to the UK from the US or Canada, don't worry - it's really not all that [culturally] different, despite what they tell you.
You'll still have mostly all the same or similar stores & shopping, similar work hours and ethics, very similar foods, people speak a very similar language that you will most definitely understand without any problems (~Scotland?), they share many of the same interests, and despite how some Brits like to claim you're 'like chalk and cheese', in reality, it's more like 'Golden Delicious vs. Granny Smith'.
If you are European, and travel to the US (and almost equally to the UK), it is quite visibly far more 'commercialised'. You will find a far greater occurrence of mega-stores, chain restaurants, shopping malls... everywhere, really. Advertising is remarkably more 'heavy-handed' and 'pushy'... I read somewhere that the density of 'chain' restaurants (including fast food) in US cities is something like 1 per sq. mile (and it does seem that way at times). In Britain it's probably a little less than that but not much, but here, it's perhaps 1 per 50 sq. kilometers. Americans and Brits are both demonstrably much more 'consumer-ish', and it's very obvious.
As you yourself know, Moses, Germans in particular are quite averse to big commercialism and blatantly hard sell. And the Spanish, well, forget it. Mega-discount-stores like Wal-Mart failed miserably in Germany. It just didn't suit them. Too much in one place. For tools, you go to the tool shop. For food, you go to the food shop. For bikes, you go to the bike shop... For automobile accessories, you go to the auto accessories store. Simples (?).
You will also find a dramatic difference in behaviour. For example, both Brits and Americans are well-known for their party and drinking culture.
I could point out a local example, Magaluf, which has become one of the wildest, most controversial (drunken) party resorts in Europe - and it's entirely British. We don't have many yanks here, but Magaluf is often compared to the American 'spring break' activities in Florida, Cabo San Lucas, and Cancun. Magaluf is not unlike a sunny Brighton or Blackpool - or Vegas for that matter. Flashing neon and loud music dominates the streets, every major fast-food brand on every corner, Everybody offering €1 pints, Fish & Chips, full English breakfasts...
On the other hand, most Europeans - especially the Spanish - are very moderate drinkers. Yes, they consume wine for lunch, and might put a bit of rum in their coffee, but I have yet to encounter a drunken Spaniard. Germans drink a bit more, but nothing like the Brits. Some Americans visited us a couple years back, and we were shocked at how much they could drink. From the afternoon to all night long. It's not really a criticism, because it was some of the best fun I'd had in years! Just an observation, that's all.
Speaking of that, Brits overwhelmingly prefer to be surrounded by British things on their hols abroad - and even the Brits who settle here overwhelmingly congregate almost exclusively in distinctly British communities where they can effectively enjoy 'Britain in the sun'. They don't have to learn a new language, they have easy access to F&C, HP sauce, Branston pickle, and can always get roast beef & pud on Sunday.
Most of the Brits we are friends with come from a more 'international' mindset, but we know a few who whinge endlessly about how 'un-British' everything is here. From the 'crap Spanish food' and the lack of Morrison's or Tesco or shopping malls, to 'crap Spanish beer', to those arrogant Spanish refusing to speak English, Spanish idiot drivers - because they drive on the 'wrong side of the road'.. They only buy food in (very expensive) British shops, refuse to speak a word of Spanish, and have never been to a local festival or market.
Germans, on the other hand, are far more likely to settle in non-German communities, preferring to blend in with the local culture. We have a lot of Germans around - especially in the outback. Most become fluent in Spanish, adopt local cuisine, attend local fiestas.. etc. Integrate into the community.
And whilst there are a few German-oriented holiday hotspots here, what's different is that whilst you will largely only find Brits in designated British resorts, you will find Germans, Scandinavians, Spanish, Italians, French and virtually all other Europeans everywhere. There really isn't much of a nationality distinction - except for the Brits.
Work - Yes, of course Europeans work, but the work culture is markedly different.
You mentioned Germans... Well, for me, one of the most pronounced differences is that Germans are much more process oriented - and most Americans and British expats working in Germany have to get used to this eventually (read the expat forums in Germany). And the chain of command is a bit more rigorous - you aren't supposed to address your boss by their first name, etc..
But Results are less important than following the proper process. A German plumber cannot remove a socket cover or flip the electricity off if he needs to connect an appliance. Only a certified electrician can do that.
Virtually any business you want to start in Germany requires some sort of university degree. The official stamp is the most important thing. Your actual skills are secondary. If you have the stamp, it is adequate proof that you are skilled, even if you have never done the job.
Brits and Americans, on the other hand, are far more results oriented. The object is achieving the desired result, rather than following a defined process. They are far more interested in simply getting the job done - right. American or British plumbers have the skills, can, and will flip the electricity off to install an appliance. You need not call the electrician.
Spanish - well, I reckon you could argue that they too are 'results' oriented. "Just put a little glue on it. That'll hold it up".
"Just twist these wires together and put a little tape over it"...But all kidding aside, the Spanish have a very different work and lifestyle ethic. In at 9:30 or 10:00, out at 13:30 (for siesta), back at 16:30 and work till 20:00. Then go home, read the paper, and eat at 22:00. On the weekends, it's the restaurant from 22:00 to 12:30, then maybe a drink at the local bar till 01:30 or 2:00.
Anyway, that says a lot about cultural differences.
So, if you're moving to the UK from the US or Canada, don't worry - it's really not all that [culturally] different, despite what they tell you.
You'll still have mostly all the same or similar stores & shopping, similar work hours and ethics, very similar foods, people speak a very similar language that you will most definitely understand without any problems (~Scotland?), they share many of the same interests, and despite how some Brits like to claim you're 'like chalk and cheese', in reality, it's more like 'Golden Delicious vs. Granny Smith'.
Also, you are taring all Brits with the same brush. I have never been to Magaluf...never want to...or San Antonio, Ibiza, or playa de las Americas, Tenerife, or anywhere else similar. We never go on package holidays but try and find nice little boutique hotels in with the locals and we try and seek out local foods where possible.
I'm sure there quite a few Brits who do enjoy doing the stuff you mention. But equally I'm sure other nationalities go out to clubs and drink too much. With drinks selling for euro, you can't really blame them.
Too be honest, I'm not sure what you're going on about.
Last edited by Lorry1; Jun 24th 2015 at 6:03 pm.
Jun 24th 2015, 6:39 pm
#64
BE Forum Addict
Joined: Mar 2015
Location: Paphos Cyprus
Posts: 1,833
Re: England calling
Why do you keep on saying that the US & Canada are the same as the UK?....they are not!
Also, you are taring all Brits with the same brush. I have never been to Magaluf...never want to...or San Antonio, Ibiza, or playa de las Americas, Tenerife, or anywhere else similar. We never go on package holidays but try and find nice little boutique hotels in with the locals and we try and seek out local foods where possible.
I'm sure there quite a few Brits who do enjoy doing the stuff you mention. But equally I'm sure other nationalities go out to clubs and drink too much. With drinks selling for euro, you can't really blame them.
Too be honest, I'm not sure what you're going on about.
Also, you are taring all Brits with the same brush. I have never been to Magaluf...never want to...or San Antonio, Ibiza, or playa de las Americas, Tenerife, or anywhere else similar. We never go on package holidays but try and find nice little boutique hotels in with the locals and we try and seek out local foods where possible.
I'm sure there quite a few Brits who do enjoy doing the stuff you mention. But equally I'm sure other nationalities go out to clubs and drink too much. With drinks selling for euro, you can't really blame them.
Too be honest, I'm not sure what you're going on about.
Jun 24th 2015, 6:55 pm
#65
BE Enthusiast
Joined: May 2012
Location: Nebraska by the Sea
Posts: 987
Re: England calling
Why do you keep on saying that the US & Canada are the same as the UK?....they are not!
Also, you are taring all Brits with the same brush. I have never been to Magaluf...never want to...or San Antonio, Ibiza, or playa de las Americas, Tenerife, or anywhere else similar. We never go on package holidays but try and find nice little boutique hotels in with the locals and we try and seek out local foods where possible.
I'm sure there quite a few Brits who do enjoy doing the stuff you mention. But equally I'm sure other nationalities go out to clubs and drink too much. With drinks selling for euro, you can't really blame them.
Too be honest, I'm not sure what you're going on about.
Also, you are taring all Brits with the same brush. I have never been to Magaluf...never want to...or San Antonio, Ibiza, or playa de las Americas, Tenerife, or anywhere else similar. We never go on package holidays but try and find nice little boutique hotels in with the locals and we try and seek out local foods where possible.
I'm sure there quite a few Brits who do enjoy doing the stuff you mention. But equally I'm sure other nationalities go out to clubs and drink too much. With drinks selling for euro, you can't really blame them.
Too be honest, I'm not sure what you're going on about.
I agree re the drinking and buying habits of Europeans being markedly different to the US and to some extent the UK. And yes the UK, has become in my opinion more US like in its consumerism over the last 20 years. Not sure why - fundamentally the US style of shopping strip malls, hugh malls etc is flawed as a pleasurable experience. Example - look at all the Americans who fawn over their shopping experiences when visiting quaint UK or Europe. Or take a look at Detroit and the surrounding areas the so called home of malls which now lie empty.
Jun 24th 2015, 7:25 pm
#66
BE Enthusiast
Joined: Dec 2006
Location: Now Devon
Posts: 951
Re: England calling
Personally, the prospect of Magaluf, or somewhere similar fills me with dread. As does 'hanging' out with the Brit contingent whereever I have lived.
I agree re the drinking and buying habits of Europeans being markedly different to the US and to some extent the UK. And yes the UK, has become in my opinion more US like in its consumerism over the last 20 years. Not sure why - fundamentally the US style of shopping strip malls, hugh malls etc is flawed as a pleasurable experience. Example - look at all the Americans who fawn over their shopping experiences when visiting quaint UK or Europe. Or take a look at Detroit and the surrounding areas the so called home of malls which now lie empty.
I agree re the drinking and buying habits of Europeans being markedly different to the US and to some extent the UK. And yes the UK, has become in my opinion more US like in its consumerism over the last 20 years. Not sure why - fundamentally the US style of shopping strip malls, hugh malls etc is flawed as a pleasurable experience. Example - look at all the Americans who fawn over their shopping experiences when visiting quaint UK or Europe. Or take a look at Detroit and the surrounding areas the so called home of malls which now lie empty.
Jun 24th 2015, 8:57 pm
#67
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: England calling
Well what would I know? The last time I visited Lidl they were selling laminators. I guess I just don't know what is edible and what isn't.
Jun 24th 2015, 9:07 pm
#68
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: England calling
Yes, Lidl have a sort of 'junk bin' of miscellaneous things - usually a few household goods at discount prices. But they don't have a automotive department, or a garden department, or a Home appliances department, or a tools department, or an electrical department, or a clothing department...
Jun 24th 2015, 9:14 pm
#69
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: England calling
Jun 24th 2015, 11:12 pm
#70
Dichotomus tinker
Joined: Aug 2013
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 6,678
Re: England calling
Yes, every country has roads, shops, museums, football, etc. But that's extremely simplistic. And since you brought it up...
You will also find a dramatic difference in behaviour. For example, both Brits and Americans are well-known for their party and drinking culture.
You will also find a dramatic difference in behaviour. For example, both Brits and Americans are well-known for their party and drinking culture.
Speaking of that, Brits overwhelmingly prefer to be surrounded by British things on their hols abroad - and even the Brits who settle here overwhelmingly congregate almost exclusively in distinctly British communities where they can effectively enjoy 'Britain in the sun'. They don't have to learn a new language, they have easy access to F&C, HP sauce, Branston pickle, and can always get roast beef & pud on Sunday.
Most of the Brits we are friends with come from a more 'international' mindset, but we know a few who whinge endlessly about how 'un-British' everything is here. From the 'crap Spanish food' and the lack of Morrison's or Tesco or shopping malls, to 'crap Spanish beer', to those arrogant Spanish refusing to speak English, Spanish idiot drivers - because they drive on the 'wrong side of the road'.. They only buy food in (very expensive) British shops, refuse to speak a word of Spanish, and have never been to a local festival or market. .
Jun 25th 2015, 2:00 am
#71
Was in Canada, now home.
Joined: Aug 2011
Location: Devon
Posts: 3,388
Re: England calling
She's in Mallorca for Pete's sake! The place John Cooper Clarke wrote a poem about. The Balearics are not usually the locale of choice to get away from all things British and absorb yourself in a foreign culture. She isn't posting from Omsk.
Jun 25th 2015, 6:01 am
#72
The Brit is back
Joined: Apr 2010
Location: NS, Canada 2007-2013. Now....England!
Posts: 2,211
Re: England calling
Personally, the prospect of Magaluf, or somewhere similar fills me with dread. As does 'hanging' out with the Brit contingent whereever I have lived.
I agree re the drinking and buying habits of Europeans being markedly different to the US and to some extent the UK. And yes the UK, has become in my opinion more US like in its consumerism over the last 20 years. Not sure why - fundamentally the US style of shopping strip malls, hugh malls etc is flawed as a pleasurable experience. Example - look at all the Americans who fawn over their shopping experiences when visiting quaint UK or Europe. Or take a look at Detroit and the surrounding areas the so called home of malls which now lie empty.
I agree re the drinking and buying habits of Europeans being markedly different to the US and to some extent the UK. And yes the UK, has become in my opinion more US like in its consumerism over the last 20 years. Not sure why - fundamentally the US style of shopping strip malls, hugh malls etc is flawed as a pleasurable experience. Example - look at all the Americans who fawn over their shopping experiences when visiting quaint UK or Europe. Or take a look at Detroit and the surrounding areas the so called home of malls which now lie empty.
BTW I also hate Lidl & Aldi, they are somewhat scattered in their layout and I can't find anything I want.
Jun 25th 2015, 6:53 am
#73
Lost in BE Cyberspace
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 6,148
Re: England calling
Let's face it, unless you are in some strange cult, are really religious, you won't be shocked by any culture in Europe/Canada/US. The majority of people like to have a laugh, enjoy a drink, go to sport events and watch American movies. You can have a German Christmas market in Spain, just like you'll find a Spanish bar in Germany and the American style burger might be even better in the UK.
Jun 25th 2015, 7:04 am
#74
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: England calling
What I did say is that the cultures are far more similar than different (which is demonstrably true). But because that's not what you want to hear, it's not my fault. Sorry. I can't resolve that for you.
I can see how you would interpret it that way, but it's not exactly a secret. In our village of mostly native locals, there are also a few Germans, Scandinavians, French - but we are the sole 'token' Brits (we don't live in one of those 'British' communities where the vast majority of British expats choose to live).
Thusly, in social gatherings, we are often subject to light-hearted ribbing about how we can possibly stand all these 'foreigners' in the village (the joke being the common stereotype that Brits see themselves as the 'standard' by which all things should be compared - everything and everybody else is the 'foreigner'). Naturally, I'll respond to our German friends with something like "Wie können Sie in einem Haus leben, das nicht quadrat?" (How can you live in a house that's not square/level) - the joke being that few buildings here are built square or level, and referring to the common stereotype that Germans cannot bear anything 'imperfect'. But it's all lighthearted, no offence taken, because frankly, there's some truth in it, and we all know that.
It's not a criticism - it's an observation. And yes, it is a common stereotype. Like all stereotypes of course, not all Brits are that way, but there is a certain amount of truth to those stereotypes, as even you have unwittingly exhibited here.
Jun 25th 2015, 7:20 am
#75
Banned
Joined: Feb 2011
Location: Mallorca
Posts: 19,367
Re: England calling
Well, I lived in Germany for about 2 decades, and I can assure you, it's far from it, and in that context, I used Wal-Mart's miserable failure there as a testament to that. Wal-Mart failed because it was about 180 degrees contrary to the shopping culture. The shopping culture in Germany (and virtually all of continental Europe) is indeed radically different from both Britain and the US/Canada. Like I said, particularly for Germans, the general mindset is that food is at the food shop. bikes are at the bike shop, clothes are at the clothes shop, tyres are at the tyre shop... Having it all in one place is a very foreign concept, and in Wal-Mart's case, it just didn't work.
It's a 'specialist' mindset, which, in the case of the example cited (Germany) is blatantly evident through across all aspects of life there: work, play, housing, education driving, finance, rubbish collection, etc.. - all very organised and 'specialised'. That's just German culture. But it's still radically different from British or American culture.