InVinoVeritas

I am hearing of more and more people waiting longer and longer (6 months +) for their MM2H visas. A friend tells me that 12 months is not unheard of.

I even heard of someone being refused MM2H because they had overrun their 90 day visa-on-arrival.

Anyone else coming across this? Any theories on the whys and wherefores?

eCdD

I heard from Chinese friends that nowadays the processing time for applications from Europeans and Chinese is very different. And that the bank document checks for Chinese are much more strict now and communication between MM2H and the Chinese banks is difficult. If at the end 95 % percent of the yearly MM2H participants are from China, Malaysia probably will not be happy with the program.

wiggler

My agent informed me this week that the delay was in part due to a new 'chief-in-charge'. I've been waiting a little over 6 months. Apparently they are currently 'processing / committee reviewing' applications that were submitted in early Sept 2017.

RedApe

The current percentage of Chinese in the MM2H program is 26.4% of the total. I'd think that'd go down with the current currency controls from China. Like those little plush toys in the crane-machines in the arcades, China is a seductive draw for tourism, investment capital and obviously MM2H. But whether it's a realistic one, or one that will not cause all sorts of social issues is increasingly going to be debated.Seems that the current strategy is to create Chinese bantustans.

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/03/13/m...al-flight.html

eCdD

You are probably talking about 2002 to 2017, which is a little bit misleading. According to the figures until August 2017, in the last year the Chinese made up 51,0% of the approved applications.

Unfortunately the NYT article is full of wrong information like:

"Nepali guards patrol Forest City around the clock — in part, one salesman said, because Chinese clients might not feel comfortable interacting with local Muslims."

"Malaysia offers long-term visas as well as a path toward citizenship"

"Still, on a recent Saturday, a few hundred visitors — almost all of them Mandarin speakers — circulated through the sales gallery. "

RedApe

Yes...I'm taking the complete period of application. It's clear that the numbers have gone up. But that seems to be a deliberate effort on the part of those promoting the MM2H. So I'm unsure why they'd be "disappointed" in getting a lot of Chinese into this segregated community? I would think they'd be disappointed if the numbers drop...which might well occur with the increased efforts by the Chinese governmemt to introduce currency controls on more than the equivalent of US$10,000/annum.

Well, I haven't been there so don't know who they are hiring and how they are promoting Forest City it to Chinese speakers. IF they are telling applicants that MM2H is a pathway to citizenship...that's clearly in error. But I don't know that if that's what they are telling the applicants. I've heard from other articles that similar erroneous information is being promulgated by Forest City sales managers. Or that the MM2H with renewals is equivalent to permanent residency and after 10 years allows one to apply for citizenship.

Here's another article that mentions Nepalese Security
http://www.atimes.com/article/troubl...city-paradise/

One big issue is that the Chinese buyers are essentially told that they WILL obtain a MM2H pass and are sold property prior to their obtaining one. We all know the vicissitudes of whether or not individuals will qualify for the MM2H program. Tourism and Culture Minister Nazri Aziz claim sthat more than 1 million have applied for the MM2H over 15 years but only 33,000 have actually been accepted (a 0.03% success rate). That's an average of 2220/year (out of 70,000 applicants). How many of these purchasers, after putting in large amounts into purchasing their property will soon discover they have additional financial hurdles to clear (LIQUID Assets, establishment of a Fixed Deposit) before getting the MM2H pass.


"Sultan Ibrahim clarified that the land is indeed freehold, but the title is held by the company, not the buyers.
The buyers only hold the strata titles, which is also freehold.

Prime Minister Najib Abdul Razak earlier said the Forest City properties were sold on a 99-year lease, but the developer has advertised it as freehold properties.

“We are not giving away Malaysian citizenship. The ones who came up with the Malaysia My Second Home concept was not me. “Go ask the person who came up with it,” the sultan said.

He was likely referring to Parti Pribumi Bersatu Malaysia (Bersatu) chairperson Dr Mahathir Mohamad, who was prime minister when the Malaysia My Second Home concept was introduced."

Even the PM doesn't seem to understand that MM2H is not a route to citizenship.To gain the pathway to Malaysian Citizenship one needs to gain Permanent Residence status (which the MM2H vis is NOT). To obtain that one must be a) a High Net Worth Individual willing to put US$2 million in a long-term FD; b) An expert in their field of endeavor recommended by a government agency; c) Professionals working for 3+ years in their field in Malaysia; d) the spouse of a Malaysian citizen for 5+ years (also a Long-Term Social Visa for at least that period); e) scoring 65+ out of 120 on a point-based system.

And that's not limited to the PM- in an interview w/ Lokman Mansor (Apr 3 2017 New Straits Times "Forest City: "Noises" turn out to be good advertising")

"Q (Mansor): What about the accusations about the Chinese buyers getting citizenship after buying a Forest City property?

A: That has no basis at all. I read where it says after 12 years, they will have a right to citizenship. Actually, there is a difference between qualifying and having a right. A foreigner can qualify for citizenship after 12 years, but it’s not their right. Even if we go overseas and become residents, we can qualify to ask for citizenship but the government will finally decide. But it’s not true that if you buy property in Forest City you get citizenship. It’s not like a golf club membership. When I saw that, I thought it was not even an issue worth commenting on."

Correct in part, but this doesn't apply to applicants for the MM2H which do not even qualify for citizenship after 12 years. Why even IMPLY that you might be able to gain citizenship after owning a property after 12 years.

eCdD

OK, small misunderstandings, I better make the stuff more clear.

"Nepali guards patrol Forest City around the clock — in part, one salesman said, because Chinese clients might not feel comfortable interacting with local Muslims."
-> In almost all Condos in Malay the security guards are Nepali (plus one single Indian Malay). This has absolutely nothing to do with the feelings of Mainland Chinese or Forest City.

"Malaysia offers long-term visas as well as a path toward citizenship"
->There is almost no way to Malay citizenship. And if you have the feeling you come close after many, many years living here, applicants must speak close to perfect Bahasa and waiting time is some years more As we all know MM2H has nothing to do with property. As far as I remember Forest City has some kind of MM2H agent service, but that is all. And there is one big diffence, while the official minimum selling price for foreignes in Johor is RM 1mil, in Forest City it is only RM 500k. Because Sultan said can.

"Still, on a recent Saturday, a few hundred visitors — almost all of them Mandarin speakers — circulated through the sales gallery. "
-> All the presentations there are in Cantonese not Mandarin. At least when we were there. But they have of cause staff that translates to Mandarin for Non-Cantonese speakers.

RedApe

The author is not Chinese himself, but a long-time correspondent in Beijing. I presume that he is reflecting what he was told about why certain things existed in Forest City. And relating what the visitors believed they were told. I'm sure that he would know the difference between Cantonese and Mandarin. He was referring to "all the VISITORS being Mandarin speakers". Whether the visitors are well-enough informed that they need to apply for MM2H visas BEFORE they can live long-term in Malaysia...and that this visa is not a route to citizenship or permanent residency seems to be an issue.

I don't understand why they are actually being sold properties before they get the MM2H visa? Seems to be putting the cart before the horse.

At the rate of acceptances for MM2H visas annually it will be decades before those buying properties in Forest City would have their MM2H visas processed and approved, provided they ARE approved. Are they made aware of the terms of the MM2H before they sign the purchase agreement, put down their down-payment, etc. The 30% withdrawal penalty is sizable if the applicant discovers they are not approved for MM2H or if they discover that they can no longer transfer enough $ outside of China to afford the monthly payments. Or maybe they could except they now have to place a large amount (which perhaps they intended to use to purchase the condo) into a Fixed Deposit. All of this needs to be put up front first...not rush people in and throw a purchase agreement under their nose.

Sounds more like a hard-sell that used to be used for time-share programs.

IndoTom

It has now been 5 months since submitting my MM2H and still "awaiting committee approval". My agent said it now takes 5+ months even for well qualified applicants without any issues. Does anyone know if the approvals only occur at the end of each month?

WiredTight

IndoTom,
I pulled up my approval letter, and my official approval date was on 20 June 2017, but the actual MM2H gov't stamp was 01 July. I then received notification via my agent about 10 days later (paper copy). From submitted to approval letter...just under 5 months.

macmagrduer

IndoTom,

I applied early December and my agent advises that we should receive word in July or August. 7 to 8 Months from my application. When we were in process prior to submission the word was 3 to 6 months but with expected changes to the MM2H requirements imminent they anticipated a flood of applications prior to end of the year.

For what it is worth, Good luck!

IndoTom

Thanks for the feed-back. My agent said it may be 1 more month, for a total of 6 months.

macmagrduer

Wondering if anyone knows the latest approvals being issued now for applications around what date?

I applied in December and my agent is suggesting possible approval could now be July or even August. Looking forward to moving in August so hoping we don't run afoul of any rules by showing up before approval given.

Thanks for any intel out there on current or recent approvals.

wiggler

Mine took 6 months and 3 weeks. I believe they are presently processing late Sept / early August 2017.

All the best.

IndoTom

My agent just notified me about my MM2H conditional approval. It took 6 months and 10 days. The approval committee meeting date was in March but the date on the document was April 27th. So there must be some processing that slows things down a bit somewhere before we get notified and the official approval letter is sent to us.