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Old May 2nd 2003 | 2:05 am
  #16  
Bob Fusillo
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: You can't get there from here

There ARE alternatives-- all of which will cost me a substgantial amount
above my original budget. EasyJet from Stansted is the cheapest I have
found -- they list 11 pounds 50, but then taxes of twice as much, and the
trip from Gatwick to Stansted et al, raises the cost ( and incovenience)
quite a bit.
My gripe is with BA. They have lots of competitors -- I don't need them as
much as they need me.
rjf
"Traveler" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Will your problem be solved if you can get to London somehow or other on
May
    > 29? You might be able to do that for several hundred dollars - expensive
but
    > perhaps worth it. Consider bidding on Priceline. Look for web specials.
    > Alternatively - London - Venice on Ryanair is inconvenient, considering
the
    > two airports involved, but you can get a roundtrip ticket, including all
    > fees for 32 pounds right now, considering Ryanair's sale. 32 pounds is
less
    > than a typical US airline's change fee.
    > This sort of thing is why I have put an extra day or two breathing space
    > between my intra-Europe flights and where I need to be next.
    > If I'm misunderstanding everything, please forgive me.
    > Traveler
    > "Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
    > news:EdYra.682463$F1.91256@sccrnsc04...
    > > The ( Very) Downside of Consolidators, with Airlines Not Far Behind
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > In December I booked a flight to England on U.S. Air, thru the
    > > consolidator Air Gorilla, although my tickets came from Adventure Bound
    > > Travel. The tickets had me arriving in London early on May 29. I also
    > > booked a non-refundable flight from London to Venice on British Air, for
    > > later that day.
    > >
    > > Sometime early this year U.S. Air changed its schedule
    > considerably,
    > > making it impossible for me to make the Venice flight. U.S. Air did not
    > > bother to let me know; rather they claim to have notified Adventure
Bound
    > > Travel in January. I heard from neither Gorilla nor Adventure Bound, but
    > > chanced upon the schedule change by luck. Gorilla tells me today that
they
    > > heard about this "only a short time ago."
    > >
    > > British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic
    > agent,
    > > told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't show
    > for
    > > the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces
    > available
    > > on the next flight out, in the afternoon).
    > >
    > > U.S. Air quite, pleasant about it all, told me that if only I
    > had
    > > contacted them earlier they could have put me on another flight, but
now,
    > > alas, it is too late!
    > >
    > > The general message seems to be that no one - except me apparently-is
    > > responsible. The only "replacement" fare Gatwick-Venice is considerably
    > > higher than my original fare, so I am now out quite more than just the
    > lost
    > > BA fare. With the current state of affairs in the airline industry
    > > (including the fact that my tax dollars are being used to "save" them) I
    > > should have hoped for greater flexibility and customer assistance.
    > >
    > > I have learned two things from this: don't book early, keep almost daily
    > > contact with the consolidator and airline, and don't fly British Air
(OK,
    > > that's three things).
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Robert J. Fusillo
    > >
    > > Atlanta
    > >
    > >
 
Old May 2nd 2003 | 3:08 am
  #17  
Forrest
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: You can't get there from here

"Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
news:rWusa.462941$Zo.103530@sccrnsc03...
    > There ARE alternatives-- all of which will cost me a substgantial amount
    > above my original budget. EasyJet from Stansted is the cheapest I have
    > found -- they list 11 pounds 50, but then taxes of twice as much, and the
    > trip from Gatwick to Stansted et al, raises the cost ( and incovenience)
    > quite a bit.
    > My gripe is with BA. They have lots of competitors -- I don't need them
as
    > much as they need me.

For the first time this thread is making me really sympathetic with an
Airline. I will have less faith in taking the side of the customer against
the carrier after this.

Your gripe ought to be with the Airline/Consolidator/Tour Operator in the US
not with an airline in another country which you want to agree to break a
contract you entered into with. You say you have flown with them many times
before. You ought to average out your satisfaction index over all those
flights, especially any others where you got a low price for a
non-exchangeable/non-refundable journey that you did use.

Michael Forrest
[email protected] - change to Friday to reply
 
Old May 2nd 2003 | 3:30 am
  #18  
Greg Byshenk
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: You can't get there from here

me wrote:
    > wrote:
    > > "me" wrote:
    > > > wrote:

    > > > > It won't. The OP has gone for the cheapest ticket, which is sold as
    > > > > non-refundable, non-returnable and is now unhappy that the very factors
    > > > > that made the ticket cheap are being applied.

    > > > This is a tad unfair. He's unhappy because everyone is allowed
    > > > to make changes to his itinerary, sans penalty, except him.

    > > If he had wanted to be able to make changes without penalty,

    > He didn't. He didn't want to make ANY changes. US Air did.

Not true from BA's point of view. From BA's position, he wants to
change a non-changeable ticket. It has nothing whatsoever to do with
BA, and the reason he wants to do so (good or bad) makes no difference
to BA.


    > > > He was
    > > > perfectly willing to stick with the original arrangements but US Air
    > > > changed the schedule.

    > > For which he seems to hold BA responsible.

    > BA is in the best position to accomodate him at this point.
    > They won't, and they aren't legally obligated to, but they are
    > in the best position. The necessary flight is available and
    > lightly booked. (per his description). His point being that
    > BA is acting in a manner which will cause him to make
    > choices in the future which probably will not be in their favor.

As someone else has already pointed out: if someone happens to
miss a flight (for whatever reason), most airlines will try to
put them on the next available flight, if seats are available.
No promises and no guarantees, but they will do what they can.
But this is entirely different than wanting to change a non-
changeable ticket, as the latter eliminates the basis for the
price differential between different classes of tickets.


    > > > I tend to avoid booking "connecting" flights seperately and
    > > > prefer to book them as a single "ticket" precisely due to this problem.

    > > That is a very sensible approach and should avoid exactly this sort of
    > > problem.

    > You of course pay a "penalty" for this in the sense that it is often
    > not possible to get the same aggregate total price because you can't
    > get any single entity to book such a single ticket. If he does so
    > in the future, BA will probably be cut out of the business. Partially
    > because of his experience with the, and partially because he is more
    > likely to be decision driven by the transatlantic carrier. This is
    > sorta his larger point. BA is missing an opportunity to keep a
    > customer. In a larger sense, they are contributing to an overall
    > aversion to air travel and especially international air travel which
    > is of greater concern to BA than to say a US Air.

Customers who buy the cheapest tickets _don't_ _matter_ (as
individual customers) to the airlines. They are not valuable and
the airlines are not interested in doing anything in particular to
keep them as customers. Bargain-hunting customers treat airlines
as commodities, and in return are treated as commodities by the
airlines.


    > I do see a business opportunity for large travel tour agencies.
    > Basically you book ALL of your travel through them as if you were
    > buying a "packaged" tour. They are in essence "buying the risk" at
    > that point. (And their risk would be lower since they would
    > have been notified in a timely manner in this example).

Such places used to exist in great numbers, and still do, to a
lesser extent. They are known as 'travel agents'. Unfortunately,
in order to remain in business, such companies need to make a
profit for themselves -- and the bargain-basement traveler isn't
willing to pay for such services.


--
greg byshenk - [email protected] - Leiden, NL
hate spam?

 
Old May 2nd 2003 | 3:44 am
  #19  
Traveler
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: You can't get there from here

Ryanair is cheaper right now - as cheap as 32 pounds round trip including
taxes if you take the cheapest flight both ways. This is due to their 10
pounds off sale (or at least this was true about 36 hours ago when I
looked).

Re getting from airport to airport, I plan to take the National Express
coach bus from Victoria Station to Stansted - about 15 pounds for a
roundtrip. What is the coach option from Gatwick to Stansted?

In total, you are still talking about less money than a typical $100US
change fee that major airlines typically enforce, even if you tack on extra
transit charges when you get to Venice.

Traveler

"Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
news:rWusa.462941$Zo.103530@sccrnsc03...
    > There ARE alternatives-- all of which will cost me a substgantial amount
    > above my original budget. EasyJet from Stansted is the cheapest I have
    > found -- they list 11 pounds 50, but then taxes of twice as much, and the
    > trip from Gatwick to Stansted et al, raises the cost ( and incovenience)
    > quite a bit.
    > My gripe is with BA. They have lots of competitors -- I don't need them
as
    > much as they need me.
    > rjf
    > "Traveler" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Will your problem be solved if you can get to London somehow or other on
    > May
    > > 29? You might be able to do that for several hundred dollars - expensive
    > but
    > > perhaps worth it. Consider bidding on Priceline. Look for web specials.
    > >
    > > Alternatively - London - Venice on Ryanair is inconvenient, considering
    > the
    > > two airports involved, but you can get a roundtrip ticket, including all
    > > fees for 32 pounds right now, considering Ryanair's sale. 32 pounds is
    > less
    > > than a typical US airline's change fee.
    > >
    > > This sort of thing is why I have put an extra day or two breathing space
    > > between my intra-Europe flights and where I need to be next.
    > >
    > > If I'm misunderstanding everything, please forgive me.
    > >
    > > Traveler
    > >
    > > "Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
    > > news:EdYra.682463$F1.91256@sccrnsc04...
    > > > The ( Very) Downside of Consolidators, with Airlines Not Far Behind
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > In December I booked a flight to England on U.S. Air, thru
the
    > > > consolidator Air Gorilla, although my tickets came from Adventure
Bound
    > > > Travel. The tickets had me arriving in London early on May 29. I also
    > > > booked a non-refundable flight from London to Venice on British Air,
for
    > > > later that day.
    > > >
    > > > Sometime early this year U.S. Air changed its schedule
    > > considerably,
    > > > making it impossible for me to make the Venice flight. U.S. Air did
not
    > > > bother to let me know; rather they claim to have notified Adventure
    > Bound
    > > > Travel in January. I heard from neither Gorilla nor Adventure Bound,
but
    > > > chanced upon the schedule change by luck. Gorilla tells me today that
    > they
    > > > heard about this "only a short time ago."
    > > >
    > > > British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic
    > > agent,
    > > > told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't
show
    > > for
    > > > the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces
    > > available
    > > > on the next flight out, in the afternoon).
    > > >
    > > > U.S. Air quite, pleasant about it all, told me that if only
I
    > > had
    > > > contacted them earlier they could have put me on another flight, but
    > now,
    > > > alas, it is too late!
    > > >
    > > > The general message seems to be that no one - except me apparently-is
    > > > responsible. The only "replacement" fare Gatwick-Venice is
considerably
    > > > higher than my original fare, so I am now out quite more than just the
    > > lost
    > > > BA fare. With the current state of affairs in the airline industry
    > > > (including the fact that my tax dollars are being used to "save" them)
I
    > > > should have hoped for greater flexibility and customer assistance.
    > > >
    > > > I have learned two things from this: don't book early, keep almost
daily
    > > > contact with the consolidator and airline, and don't fly British Air
    > (OK,
    > > > that's three things).
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Robert J. Fusillo
    > > >
    > > > Atlanta
    > > >
    > > >
    > >
    > >
 
Old May 2nd 2003 | 9:52 am
  #20  
Lennart Petersen
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: You can't get there from here

"Bob Fusillo" skrev i meddelandet
news:EdYra.682463$F1.91256@sccrnsc04...
    > The general message seems to be that no one - except me apparently-is
    > responsible. The only "replacement" fare Gatwick-Venice is considerably
    > higher than my original fare, so I am now out quite more than just the
lost
    > BA fare.
Mysterious math, you can't have lost more than the BA fare.
Don't cry so much try another airline.
As for 29 May you have Ryanair from Stansted to Venice Treviso for GBP 2.99
plus tax departing at 14:05 and 18:55
With the current state of affairs in the airline industry
    > (including the fact that my tax dollars are being used to "save" them) I
    > should have hoped for greater flexibility and customer assistance.
You haven't paid a single tax dollar to BA as the company is profitmaking
and together with Lufthansa one of the most profitmaking airlines in the
world.
 
Old May 2nd 2003 | 9:40 pm
  #21  
nightjar
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: You can't get there from here

"Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
news:rWusa.462941$Zo.103530@sccrnsc03...
...
    > My gripe is with BA. They have lots of competitors -- I don't need them
as
    > much as they need me.

If you are flying economy, they don't really need you at all. The people
they need are the ones who pay full fare. A transatlantic 747 has paid for
its flight when all the first class seats are sold and the other seats are
then only extra profit. Even so, one business class passenger is worth
several in economy class and a business class ticket would have let you
change your schedule.

Colin Bignell
 
Old May 2nd 2003 | 9:47 pm
  #22  
nightjar
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default Re: You can't get there from here

"me" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
...
    > He didn't. He didn't want to make ANY changes. US Air did.

There was no contract between US Air and BA. So, from BA's point of view, it
was the passenger who wanted to make the change.

...
    > BA is in the best position to accomodate him at this point.
    > They won't, and they aren't legally obligated to, but they are
    > in the best position. The necessary flight is available and
    > lightly booked. (per his description). His point being that
    > BA is acting in a manner which will cause him to make
    > choices in the future which probably will not be in their favor.

As I have said, I suspect that if he had simply turned up late and spun a
tale of woe, he would have been put on the next flight. As soon as he asked
to change the ticket, it was inevitable that he would be refused. No airline
is going to make an exception to its rules on non-refundable,
non-transferrable tickets for one passenger without running the risk of
setting a precendent for all other passenegers who want to make a change. It
is better for them to lose one future passenger than to open the floodgates
to a huge demand for refunds on non-refundable tickets.

Colin Bignell
 

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