You can't get there from here
 

The ( Very) Downside of Consolidators, with Airlines Not Far Behind



In December I booked a flight to England on U.S. Air, thru the
consolidator Air Gorilla, although my tickets came from Adventure Bound
Travel. The tickets had me arriving in London early on May 29. I also
booked a non-refundable flight from London to Venice on British Air, for
later that day.

Sometime early this year U.S. Air changed its schedule considerably,
making it impossible for me to make the Venice flight. U.S. Air did not
bother to let me know; rather they claim to have notified Adventure Bound
Travel in January. I heard from neither Gorilla nor Adventure Bound, but
chanced upon the schedule change by luck. Gorilla tells me today that they
heard about this "only a short time ago."

British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic agent,
told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't show for
the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces available
on the next flight out, in the afternoon).

U.S. Air quite, pleasant about it all, told me that if only I had
contacted them earlier they could have put me on another flight, but now,
alas, it is too late!

The general message seems to be that no one - except me apparently-is
responsible. The only "replacement" fare Gatwick-Venice is considerably
higher than my original fare, so I am now out quite more than just the lost
BA fare. With the current state of affairs in the airline industry
(including the fact that my tax dollars are being used to "save" them) I
should have hoped for greater flexibility and customer assistance.

I have learned two things from this: don't book early, keep almost daily
contact with the consolidator and airline, and don't fly British Air (OK,
that's three things).



Robert J. Fusillo

Atlanta

Re: You can't get there from here
 

"Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
news:EdYra.682463$F1.91256@sccrnsc04...
...
    > I have learned two things from this: don't book early, keep almost daily
    > contact with the consolidator and airline, and don't fly British Air (OK,
    > that's three things).

Exactly how is it British Airways fault that (1) you decided to buy the
cheap, non-refundable, non-transferable tickets (I presume you understood
what non-refundable and non-transferable meant when you bought them) (2) US
Air changed their schedules and (3) there was a breakdown in the chain of
communications between US Air and you?

Colin Bignell

Re: You can't get there from here
 

    > British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic
agent,
    > told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't show
for
    > the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces
available
    > on the next flight out, in the afternoon).

You might want to push this. You could try to get a more sympathetic
British Air agent--or ask for a supervisor at British--and beg. Cry, if it
helps. Then you could try AGAIN to change the U.S. Air flight time. It's
worth trying.

Re: You can't get there from here
 

See if you can try to get US air to let you go a day early..
a hotel in london might be cheaper than losing a BA ticket..
worth a try.. try both airlines..

I think BA and US air are partners.. and they might do something..


On Wed, 30 Apr 2003 19:06:08 -0500, "Douglas W. Hoyt"
wrote:

    >> British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic
    >agent,
    >> told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't show
    >for
    >> the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces
    >available
    >> on the next flight out, in the afternoon).
    >You might want to push this. You could try to get a more sympathetic
    >British Air agent--or ask for a supervisor at British--and beg. Cry, if it
    >helps. Then you could try AGAIN to change the U.S. Air flight time. It's
    >worth trying.

Re: You can't get there from here
 

In article ,
Lester Mosley wrote:

    > See if you can try to get US air to let you go a day early..
    > a hotel in london might be cheaper than losing a BA ticket..
    > worth a try.. try both airlines..
    >
    > I think BA and US air are partners.. and they might do something..

they haven't been for 6 years if not longer.

Re: You can't get there from here
 

"Douglas W. Hoyt" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic
    > agent,
    > > told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't show
    > for
    > > the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces
    > available
    > > on the next flight out, in the afternoon).
    > You might want to push this. You could try to get a more sympathetic
    > British Air agent--or ask for a supervisor at British--and beg. Cry, if
it
    > helps.

It won't. The OP has gone for the cheapest ticket, which is sold as
non-refundable, non-returnable and is now unhappy that the very factors that
made the ticket cheap are being applied. You get what you pay for and, if
you want a flexible ticket, you pay a lot more in the first place. Indeed,
in some cases, you pay more than it costs to abandon the first ticket and
buy a replacement. If US Air cannot help, the best he can hope is that his
travel insurance covers the cancellation of the ticket, assuming he bought
travel insurance.

Colin Bignell

Re: You can't get there from here
 

Will your problem be solved if you can get to London somehow or other on May
29? You might be able to do that for several hundred dollars - expensive but
perhaps worth it. Consider bidding on Priceline. Look for web specials.

Alternatively - London - Venice on Ryanair is inconvenient, considering the
two airports involved, but you can get a roundtrip ticket, including all
fees for 32 pounds right now, considering Ryanair's sale. 32 pounds is less
than a typical US airline's change fee.

This sort of thing is why I have put an extra day or two breathing space
between my intra-Europe flights and where I need to be next.

If I'm misunderstanding everything, please forgive me.

Traveler

"Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
news:EdYra.682463$F1.91256@sccrnsc04...
    > The ( Very) Downside of Consolidators, with Airlines Not Far Behind
    > In December I booked a flight to England on U.S. Air, thru the
    > consolidator Air Gorilla, although my tickets came from Adventure Bound
    > Travel. The tickets had me arriving in London early on May 29. I also
    > booked a non-refundable flight from London to Venice on British Air, for
    > later that day.
    > Sometime early this year U.S. Air changed its schedule
considerably,
    > making it impossible for me to make the Venice flight. U.S. Air did not
    > bother to let me know; rather they claim to have notified Adventure Bound
    > Travel in January. I heard from neither Gorilla nor Adventure Bound, but
    > chanced upon the schedule change by luck. Gorilla tells me today that they
    > heard about this "only a short time ago."
    > British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic
agent,
    > told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't show
for
    > the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces
available
    > on the next flight out, in the afternoon).
    > U.S. Air quite, pleasant about it all, told me that if only I
had
    > contacted them earlier they could have put me on another flight, but now,
    > alas, it is too late!
    > The general message seems to be that no one - except me apparently-is
    > responsible. The only "replacement" fare Gatwick-Venice is considerably
    > higher than my original fare, so I am now out quite more than just the
lost
    > BA fare. With the current state of affairs in the airline industry
    > (including the fact that my tax dollars are being used to "save" them) I
    > should have hoped for greater flexibility and customer assistance.
    > I have learned two things from this: don't book early, keep almost daily
    > contact with the consolidator and airline, and don't fly British Air (OK,
    > that's three things).
    > Robert J. Fusillo
    > Atlanta

Re: You can't get there from here
 

wrote in message news:...
    > "Douglas W. Hoyt" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > > British Air, via a terse and quite unpleasantly unsympathetic
    > agent,
    > > > told me that the whole non-refundable ticket is lost - if we don't show
    > for
    > > > the outbound flight, the return is lost as well. (There are spaces
    > available
    > > > on the next flight out, in the afternoon).
    > >
    > > You might want to push this. You could try to get a more sympathetic
    > > British Air agent--or ask for a supervisor at British--and beg. Cry, if
    > it
    > > helps.
    >
    > It won't. The OP has gone for the cheapest ticket, which is sold as
    > non-refundable, non-returnable and is now unhappy that the very factors that
    > made the ticket cheap are being applied.

This is a tad unfair. He's unhappy because everyone is allowed
to make changes to his itinerary, sans penalty, except him. He was
perfectly willing to stick with the original arrangements but US Air
changed the schedule.

    > You get what you pay for and, if
    > you want a flexible ticket, you pay a lot more in the first place.

Actually, he's not getting what he paid for and there in lies the
problem. However, the racket is set up such that no one is beholden
to him for the cost of their changes.

I've frequently described traveling as a series of reservations,
any of which can completely screw you if they don't come through as
promised.

I tend to avoid booking "connecting" flights seperately and
prefer to book them as a single "ticket" precisely due to this problem.
I also tend to book "self guided tours" for similar reasons.

    > Indeed,
    > in some cases, you pay more than it costs to abandon the first ticket and
    > buy a replacement. If US Air cannot help, the best he can hope is that his
    > travel insurance covers the cancellation of the ticket, assuming he bought
    > travel insurance.

For a variety of reasons, travel insurance is fairly uncommom on
this side of the pond.

Re: You can't get there from here
 

"me" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > wrote in message
news:...
...
    > > It won't. The OP has gone for the cheapest ticket, which is sold as
    > > non-refundable, non-returnable and is now unhappy that the very factors
that
    > > made the ticket cheap are being applied.
    > This is a tad unfair. He's unhappy because everyone is allowed
    > to make changes to his itinerary, sans penalty, except him.

If he had wanted to be able to make changes without penalty, that was an
option at the time of buying the ticket. He decided to buy on price instead.
I usually do the same, but in the knowledge that if something stops me
taking the flight, I lose the price of the ticket.

    > He was
    > perfectly willing to stick with the original arrangements but US Air
    > changed the schedule.

For which he seems to hold BA responsible.

    > > You get what you pay for and, if
    > > you want a flexible ticket, you pay a lot more in the first place.
    > Actually, he's not getting what he paid for and there in lies the
    > problem.

So far as the BA ticket he is. The trouble is, he now doesn't want that
flight and wants to be treated as if he had bought a full fare ticket
instead.

...
    > I tend to avoid booking "connecting" flights seperately and
    > prefer to book them as a single "ticket" precisely due to this problem.

That is a very sensible approach and should avoid exactly this sort of
problem.

...
    > For a variety of reasons, travel insurance is fairly uncommom on
    > this side of the pond.

Interesting, seeing as I buy my annual travel insurance from an American
company.

Colin Bignell

Re: You can't get there from here
 

Comment from the original poster-- my annoyance is based on past experience.
Non-refundable or not, in over forty five years of flying the Atlantic and
other places, I have found the standard practice to be that when one is a
bit late for a flight, the customer is put on top of the standby list for
the next flight. I shall be about a half hour late -- but BA will not
consider anything but forfeiting my entire ticket, even tho there appears to
be many seats available on the next flight out, and many more on the one
after that.
As far as shopping for "price" is concerned, I paid the fare -- the only
fare -- listed by BA ( from whom I bought the tickets) for that flight.
I have flown the Atlantic via BA quite a few times, starting in 1953 -- I
should hope for better treatment.
rjf

wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "me" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > wrote in message
    > news:...
    > ...
    > > > It won't. The OP has gone for the cheapest ticket, which is sold as
    > > > non-refundable, non-returnable and is now unhappy that the very
factors
    > that
    > > > made the ticket cheap are being applied.
    > >
    > > This is a tad unfair. He's unhappy because everyone is allowed
    > > to make changes to his itinerary, sans penalty, except him.
    > If he had wanted to be able to make changes without penalty, that was an
    > option at the time of buying the ticket. He decided to buy on price
instead.
    > I usually do the same, but in the knowledge that if something stops me
    > taking the flight, I lose the price of the ticket.
    > > He was
    > > perfectly willing to stick with the original arrangements but US Air
    > > changed the schedule.
    > For which he seems to hold BA responsible.
    > > > You get what you pay for and, if
    > > > you want a flexible ticket, you pay a lot more in the first place.
    > >
    > > Actually, he's not getting what he paid for and there in lies the
    > > problem.
    > So far as the BA ticket he is. The trouble is, he now doesn't want that
    > flight and wants to be treated as if he had bought a full fare ticket
    > instead.
    > ...
    > > I tend to avoid booking "connecting" flights seperately and
    > > prefer to book them as a single "ticket" precisely due to this problem.
    > That is a very sensible approach and should avoid exactly this sort of
    > problem.
    > ...
    > > For a variety of reasons, travel insurance is fairly uncommom on
    > > this side of the pond.
    > Interesting, seeing as I buy my annual travel insurance from an American
    > company.
    > Colin Bignell

Re: You can't get there from here
 

On Fri, 02 May 2003 00:33:04 GMT, "Bob Fusillo"
wrote:

    >Comment from the original poster-- my annoyance is based on past experience.
    >Non-refundable or not, in over forty five years of flying the Atlantic and
    >other places, I have found the standard practice to be that when one is a
    >bit late for a flight, the customer is put on top of the standby list for
    >the next flight. I shall be about a half hour late -- but BA will not
    >consider anything but forfeiting my entire ticket, even tho there appears to
    >be many seats available on the next flight out, and many more on the one
    >after that.

A great many things about flying have changed in the last 40
years.


************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *

Re: You can't get there from here
 

wrote in message news:...
    > "me" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > wrote in message
    > news:...
    > ...
    > > > It won't. The OP has gone for the cheapest ticket, which is sold as
    > > > non-refundable, non-returnable and is now unhappy that the very factors
    > that
    > > > made the ticket cheap are being applied.
    > >
    > > This is a tad unfair. He's unhappy because everyone is allowed
    > > to make changes to his itinerary, sans penalty, except him.
    >
    > If he had wanted to be able to make changes without penalty,
[snip]

He didn't. He didn't want to make ANY changes. US Air did.


    > > He was
    > > perfectly willing to stick with the original arrangements but US Air
    > > changed the schedule.
    >
    > For which he seems to hold BA responsible.

BA is in the best position to accomodate him at this point.
They won't, and they aren't legally obligated to, but they are
in the best position. The necessary flight is available and
lightly booked. (per his description). His point being that
BA is acting in a manner which will cause him to make
choices in the future which probably will not be in their favor.


[snip]
    > > I tend to avoid booking "connecting" flights seperately and
    > > prefer to book them as a single "ticket" precisely due to this problem.
    >
    > That is a very sensible approach and should avoid exactly this sort of
    > problem.

You of course pay a "penalty" for this in the sense that it is often
not possible to get the same aggregate total price because you can't
get any single entity to book such a single ticket. If he does so
in the future, BA will probably be cut out of the business. Partially
because of his experience with the, and partially because he is more
likely to be decision driven by the transatlantic carrier. This is
sorta his larger point. BA is missing an opportunity to keep a
customer. In a larger sense, they are contributing to an overall
aversion to air travel and especially international air travel which
is of greater concern to BA than to say a US Air.

I do see a business opportunity for large travel tour agencies.
Basically you book ALL of your travel through them as if you were
buying a "packaged" tour. They are in essence "buying the risk" at
that point. (And their risk would be lower since they would
have been notified in a timely manner in this example).


    > > For a variety of reasons, travel insurance is fairly uncommom on
    > > this side of the pond.
    >
    > Interesting, seeing as I buy my annual travel insurance from an American
    > company.

None the less, the instance of travelers buying trip insurance in
the US is vastly lower than in europe.

Re: You can't get there from here
 

"Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
news:41jsa.697763$F1.92500@sccrnsc04...
    > Comment from the original poster-- my annoyance is based on past
experience.
    > As far as shopping for "price" is concerned, I paid the fare -- the only
    > fare -- listed by BA ( from whom I bought the tickets) for that flight.
    > I have flown the Atlantic via BA quite a few times, starting in 1953 -- I
    > should hope for better treatment.
    > rjf

So for 50 years BA have given you good service?
Presumably if you'd have been arriving in time for this flight, they would
also have given good service.

Adrian.

Re: You can't get there from here
 

"Bob Fusillo" wrote in message
news:41jsa.697763$F1.92500@sccrnsc04...
    > Comment from the original poster-- my annoyance is based on past
experience.
    > Non-refundable or not, in over forty five years of flying the Atlantic and
    > other places, I have found the standard practice to be that when one is a
    > bit late for a flight, the customer is put on top of the standby list for
    > the next flight. I shall be about a half hour late -- but BA will not
    > consider anything but forfeiting my entire ticket, even tho there appears
to
    > be many seats available on the next flight out, and many more on the one
    > after that.

Turning up late for a flight is not the same as wanting to book a different
flight on the same ticket. Most major airlines will try to accommodate
people who have been delayed through no fault of their own. I have even been
bumped from a scheduled flight for which I had a valid ticket because gales
had closed Gatwick the day before and BA were giving priority to anyone with
a connecting flight leaving Gatwick. I suspect that had you turned up and
told them a tale of woe about unnotified timetable changes, you would
probably have been put on the next flight. However, when you ask for a
change on a ticket that does not permit change, any airline is bound to say
no. Doing anything else would set an undesirable precedent.

    > As far as shopping for "price" is concerned, I paid the fare -- the only
    > fare -- listed by BA ( from whom I bought the tickets) for that flight.

As an experienced traveller, you should know better than to think that there
is only one fare for any flight. The same seat on the same aircraft on the
same flight can have anything up to 20 different tariffs, although if you
don't specify anything different, you will usually be offered the cheapest
fare still available. A short search shows me that I can pay anything from
GBP 88.90 to GBP 642.89 for the Gatwick - Venice flight with BA on the same
aircraft.

    > I have flown the Atlantic via BA quite a few times, starting in 1953 -- I
    > should hope for better treatment.

If you have frequent flyer status, you can expect the best treatment
available. Simply having been a customer for many decades does not, however,
entitle you to different treatment from other customers.

Colin Bignell

Re: You can't get there from here
 

"me" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > [snip]
    > >
    > > For which he seems to hold BA responsible.
    > BA is in the best position to accomodate him at this point.
    > They won't, and they aren't legally obligated to, but they are
    > in the best position. The necessary flight is available and
    > lightly booked. (per his description). His point being that
    > BA is acting in a manner which will cause him to make
    > choices in the future which probably will not be in their favor.
But if airlines (or any other travel organisation) starts to erode the
concept of
non-exchangeable/non-refundable for "hard cases" not of their making it will
start to be unfair to those who play by the rules.

My experience of British Airways is that they are not always the most
flexible
but on the other hand they tend to get you there if you abide by the rules
you have chosen
to do business with them under. When they have made the screw up I have
found them
capable and willing to treat me well which I have not always found with
others.

Michael Forrest
[email protected] - change to Friday to reply