Why are so many rubbish countries being allowed into the EU?
#196
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On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 11:21:33 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>what advocated protectionism? I was talking about exporting our
>capital to the countries with the lowest wages, not barring
>markets.
I was talking about:
|Why would a working Frenchman, Brit or German want it? It seems
|to me, making a gross simplification, we either make our own
|stuff or earn Chinese wages?
I don't see that's anything about capital, but all about banning (or
tariffing out of competitiveness) the imported stuff, could you
explain your non-protectionist methods here? As it appears to me to
be nothing put a plea for protectionism - or conceding that people
here who want to make stuff earn chinese wages.
Of course this only applies when the stuff, is labour intensive...
Jim.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>what advocated protectionism? I was talking about exporting our
>capital to the countries with the lowest wages, not barring
>markets.
I was talking about:
|Why would a working Frenchman, Brit or German want it? It seems
|to me, making a gross simplification, we either make our own
|stuff or earn Chinese wages?
I don't see that's anything about capital, but all about banning (or
tariffing out of competitiveness) the imported stuff, could you
explain your non-protectionist methods here? As it appears to me to
be nothing put a plea for protectionism - or conceding that people
here who want to make stuff earn chinese wages.
Of course this only applies when the stuff, is labour intensive...
Jim.
#197
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"Keith Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >Agreed. I'm not happy with the present balance.
> Note to self - must read "Hard Work" by Polly Toynbee....
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/books...html#article_c
ontinue
Sounds like typical hand-wringing Gruniad reader bullshit, if the book's
anything like the above synopsis. The idea that the "worst off are single
mothers" and "there is not the thinnest of safety nets for the truly poor of our
land" is simply utter shite.
--
Andy
news:[email protected]...
> >Agreed. I'm not happy with the present balance.
> Note to self - must read "Hard Work" by Polly Toynbee....
http://politics.guardian.co.uk/books...html#article_c
ontinue
Sounds like typical hand-wringing Gruniad reader bullshit, if the book's
anything like the above synopsis. The idea that the "worst off are single
mothers" and "there is not the thinnest of safety nets for the truly poor of our
land" is simply utter shite.
--
Andy
#198
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On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 12:36:44 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:
>DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 00:44:58 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>>I will solve it the only way I know how, and that is the travel there
>>>>and give them the opportunity to rip me off if they are good enough. I
>>>>feel that's the best chance I have to offer them. Please tell me if
>>>>there is a better way.
>>>There's not a great deal an individual can do unless that individual
>>>has significant political power. But those of us with little power can
>>>support movements which seek to improve the world for all, rather than
>>>deliver further advantage to those who are already advantaged.
>>>Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>>>decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
>>I think the world is finally realising that merely doling out aid does
>>nothing to get these countries out of trouble when there are massive
>>trade barriers working against them.
>Yet some of those giving aid are among the most active in maintaining
>trading arrangements which keep third-world countries disadvantaged.
>Much aid is given with strings attached -- things like "liberalising"
>internal markets, which means making them into easy prey for predators
>from the developed world.
Yes, the picture is rather clear in this regard. No wonder they all
want to come over here.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>On Wed, 03 Aug 2005 00:44:58 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>>>I will solve it the only way I know how, and that is the travel there
>>>>and give them the opportunity to rip me off if they are good enough. I
>>>>feel that's the best chance I have to offer them. Please tell me if
>>>>there is a better way.
>>>There's not a great deal an individual can do unless that individual
>>>has significant political power. But those of us with little power can
>>>support movements which seek to improve the world for all, rather than
>>>deliver further advantage to those who are already advantaged.
>>>Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>>>decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
>>I think the world is finally realising that merely doling out aid does
>>nothing to get these countries out of trouble when there are massive
>>trade barriers working against them.
>Yet some of those giving aid are among the most active in maintaining
>trading arrangements which keep third-world countries disadvantaged.
>Much aid is given with strings attached -- things like "liberalising"
>internal markets, which means making them into easy prey for predators
>from the developed world.
Yes, the picture is rather clear in this regard. No wonder they all
want to come over here.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
#199
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Following up to Jim Ley
>>what advocated protectionism? I was talking about exporting our
>>capital to the countries with the lowest wages, not barring
>>markets.
>I was talking about:
>|Why would a working Frenchman, Brit or German want it? It seems
>|to me, making a gross simplification, we either make our own
>|stuff or earn Chinese wages?
>I don't see that's anything about capital, but all about banning (or
>tariffing out of competitiveness) the imported stuff, could you
>explain your non-protectionist methods here? As it appears to me to
>be nothing put a plea for protectionism
it was about protectionism, I thought you were referring to
something else. Do you see how we maintain our standard of living
if everything gets made in China etc?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
>>what advocated protectionism? I was talking about exporting our
>>capital to the countries with the lowest wages, not barring
>>markets.
>I was talking about:
>|Why would a working Frenchman, Brit or German want it? It seems
>|to me, making a gross simplification, we either make our own
>|stuff or earn Chinese wages?
>I don't see that's anything about capital, but all about banning (or
>tariffing out of competitiveness) the imported stuff, could you
>explain your non-protectionist methods here? As it appears to me to
>be nothing put a plea for protectionism
it was about protectionism, I thought you were referring to
something else. Do you see how we maintain our standard of living
if everything gets made in China etc?
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
#200
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On Thu, 04 Aug 2005 07:30:06 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Jim Ley
>>I don't see that's anything about capital, but all about banning (or
>>tariffing out of competitiveness) the imported stuff, could you
>>explain your non-protectionist methods here? As it appears to me to
>>be nothing put a plea for protectionism
>it was about protectionism, I thought you were referring to
>something else. Do you see how we maintain our standard of living
>if everything gets made in China etc?
The same way the vast majority of people in the UK who don't work in
building things maintain their standard of living, or by building
better things, or by adjusting their standard of living expectations
to be more reasonable and not expect to live in their massive houses,
with a couple of cars, and masses of varieties of food flown in from
all over the world, when other people in the world are damn lucky if
they get any wheat in their grass stew.
You seem to be saying that without manufacturing, countries cannot be
rich, if I accept that, then I'm still fine that globilisation
averaging out the standard of living is a good thing - we won't be
living on a dollar a day with regular mass-starvations, as at some
point cost of manufacturing will return to be worthwhile here.
However I don't agree with the conclusion at all, manufacturing is not
a pre-requisite for being rich, so it makes sense for stuff to be made
where it's cheapest, we get the stuff cheaper then.
Jim.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Following up to Jim Ley
>>I don't see that's anything about capital, but all about banning (or
>>tariffing out of competitiveness) the imported stuff, could you
>>explain your non-protectionist methods here? As it appears to me to
>>be nothing put a plea for protectionism
>it was about protectionism, I thought you were referring to
>something else. Do you see how we maintain our standard of living
>if everything gets made in China etc?
The same way the vast majority of people in the UK who don't work in
building things maintain their standard of living, or by building
better things, or by adjusting their standard of living expectations
to be more reasonable and not expect to live in their massive houses,
with a couple of cars, and masses of varieties of food flown in from
all over the world, when other people in the world are damn lucky if
they get any wheat in their grass stew.
You seem to be saying that without manufacturing, countries cannot be
rich, if I accept that, then I'm still fine that globilisation
averaging out the standard of living is a good thing - we won't be
living on a dollar a day with regular mass-starvations, as at some
point cost of manufacturing will return to be worthwhile here.
However I don't agree with the conclusion at all, manufacturing is not
a pre-requisite for being rich, so it makes sense for stuff to be made
where it's cheapest, we get the stuff cheaper then.
Jim.
#201
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Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
--
remplacez "lesptt" par "laposte" pour me joindre
substitute "laposte" to "lesptt" to reach me
> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
--
remplacez "lesptt" par "laposte" pour me joindre
substitute "laposte" to "lesptt" to reach me
#202
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[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) writes:
> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
> > decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
> our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or saying
long before them - but they have presumably registered it as a
trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig is
moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a spot of
bother.
Des
> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
> > decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
> our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or saying
long before them - but they have presumably registered it as a
trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig is
moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a spot of
bother.
Des
#203
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Des Small <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
> > our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>
> Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or saying
> long before them - but they have presumably registered it as a
> trademark.
Just like Adobe has trademarked "Reader"... or France Telecom "Orange".
:-(
--
remplacez "lesptt" par "laposte" pour me joindre
substitute "laposte" to "lesptt" to reach me
> > Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
> > our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>
> Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or saying
> long before them - but they have presumably registered it as a
> trademark.
Just like Adobe has trademarked "Reader"... or France Telecom "Orange".
:-(
--
remplacez "lesptt" par "laposte" pour me joindre
substitute "laposte" to "lesptt" to reach me
#204
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On 05 Aug 2005 15:32:09 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
wrote:
>[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) writes:
>> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>> > decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
>> our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or saying
>long before them - but they have presumably registered it as a
>trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig is
>moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a spot of
>bother.
Supermarkt? Is that a typo or Dutch?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
wrote:
>[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) writes:
>> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>> > decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
>> our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or saying
>long before them - but they have presumably registered it as a
>trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig is
>moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a spot of
>bother.
Supermarkt? Is that a typo or Dutch?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
#205
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DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> writes:
> On 05 Aug 2005 15:32:09 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) writes:
> >
> >> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my
> >> > spending decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but
> >> > every little helps.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your
> >> wallet into our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
> >
> >Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or
> >saying long before them - but they have presumably registered it as
> >a trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig
> >is moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a
> >spot of bother.
>
> Supermarkt? Is that a typo or Dutch?
Doh. "_a_ Supermarkt", sorry. (It's German, but a common, not proper,
noun.)
Des
> On 05 Aug 2005 15:32:09 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
> >[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) writes:
> >
> >> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my
> >> > spending decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but
> >> > every little helps.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your
> >> wallet into our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
> >
> >Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or
> >saying long before them - but they have presumably registered it as
> >a trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig
> >is moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a
> >spot of bother.
>
> Supermarkt? Is that a typo or Dutch?
Doh. "_a_ Supermarkt", sorry. (It's German, but a common, not proper,
noun.)
Des
#206
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[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) wrote:
>Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
>our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
You can't copyright well-established words and phrases.
Back to being an ethical consumer: I just learned that Tesco in
Ireland hire non-Irish staff through an agency, and pay them less for
similar work than they pay Irish staff on standard employment
contracts. They are not my first-choice retailer, but they now lose me
for occasional business. That will cut their turnover by about €150
p.a.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
>Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
>our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
You can't copyright well-established words and phrases.
Back to being an ethical consumer: I just learned that Tesco in
Ireland hire non-Irish staff through an agency, and pay them less for
similar work than they pay Irish staff on standard employment
contracts. They are not my first-choice retailer, but they now lose me
for occasional business. That will cut their turnover by about €150
p.a.
--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED
#207
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On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:43:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) wrote:
>>Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>>> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
>>our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>You can't copyright well-established words and phrases.
>Back to being an ethical consumer: I just learned that Tesco in
>Ireland hire non-Irish staff through an agency, and pay them less for
>similar work than they pay Irish staff on standard employment
>contracts. They are not my first-choice retailer, but they now lose me
>for occasional business. That will cut their turnover by about ¤150
>p.a.
"every little helps"
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) wrote:
>>Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
>>> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
>>our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>You can't copyright well-established words and phrases.
>Back to being an ethical consumer: I just learned that Tesco in
>Ireland hire non-Irish staff through an agency, and pay them less for
>similar work than they pay Irish staff on standard employment
>contracts. They are not my first-choice retailer, but they now lose me
>for occasional business. That will cut their turnover by about ¤150
>p.a.
"every little helps"
--
Martin
#208
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Martin wrote:
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:43:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) wrote:
> >
> >>Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
> >>> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
> >>our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
> >>
> >You can't copyright well-established words and phrases.
> >
> >Back to being an ethical consumer: I just learned that Tesco in
> >Ireland hire non-Irish staff through an agency, and pay them less for
> >similar work than they pay Irish staff on standard employment
> >contracts. They are not my first-choice retailer, but they now lose me
> >for occasional business. That will cut their turnover by about ¤150
> >p.a.
>
> "every little helps"
That's my excuse for peeing in the sea.
> On Fri, 05 Aug 2005 16:43:43 +0100, Padraig Breathnach
> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) wrote:
> >
> >>Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my spending
> >>> decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but every little helps.
> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> >>Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your wallet into
> >>our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
> >>
> >You can't copyright well-established words and phrases.
> >
> >Back to being an ethical consumer: I just learned that Tesco in
> >Ireland hire non-Irish staff through an agency, and pay them less for
> >similar work than they pay Irish staff on standard employment
> >contracts. They are not my first-choice retailer, but they now lose me
> >for occasional business. That will cut their turnover by about ¤150
> >p.a.
>
> "every little helps"
That's my excuse for peeing in the sea.
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On 05 Aug 2005 16:03:53 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
wrote:
>DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> writes:
>> On 05 Aug 2005 15:32:09 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) writes:
>> >
>> >> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my
>> >> > spending decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but
>> >> > every little helps.
>> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your
>> >> wallet into our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>> >
>> >Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or
>> >saying long before them - but they have presumably registered it as
>> >a trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig
>> >is moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a
>> >spot of bother.
>>
>> Supermarkt? Is that a typo or Dutch?
>Doh. "_a_ Supermarkt", sorry. (It's German, but a common, not proper,
>noun.)
Wow. I missed that particular typo! It was the missing 'e' I meant to
point out.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
wrote:
>DDT Filled Mormons <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> writes:
>> On 05 Aug 2005 15:32:09 +0100, Des Small <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >[email protected] (Stanislas de Kertanguy) writes:
>> >
>> >> Padraig Breathnach <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > Personally, I support fair trade, and it affects some of my
>> >> > spending decisions. A small drop in the ocean, I admit, but
>> >> > every little helps.
>> >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>> >> Were I a Tesco employee, I'd ask you to pour drops from your
>> >> wallet into our ocean :-) copyright and the like!
>> >
>> >Tescos don't own the copyright - it was a well-known phrase or
>> >saying long before them - but they have presumably registered it as
>> >a trademark. In which case if (and only if) it turns out Padraig
>> >is moonlighting as Supermarkt or chain thereof, he could be in a
>> >spot of bother.
>>
>> Supermarkt? Is that a typo or Dutch?
>Doh. "_a_ Supermarkt", sorry. (It's German, but a common, not proper,
>noun.)
Wow. I missed that particular typo! It was the missing 'e' I meant to
point out.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--