Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
May 4th 2005, 8:25 am
#61
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
Gregory Morrow wrote:
> But just try explaining this to a European :-)
Don't bother, because:
> Americans and others have built whole industries around the retro - fitting
> of older historical buildinds with mod cons. I guess that Europeans: a)
> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
> entrepreneurial...
c) we'd much rather remain deeply envious of the way things are done in
Merka.
M
> But just try explaining this to a European :-)
Don't bother, because:
> Americans and others have built whole industries around the retro - fitting
> of older historical buildinds with mod cons. I guess that Europeans: a)
> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
> entrepreneurial...
c) we'd much rather remain deeply envious of the way things are done in
Merka.
M
May 4th 2005, 8:27 am
#62
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
Kevin writes:
> Windows screens are similar to a filter that blocks insects from flying in
> through the windws, yet allows vision outside and breeze inside.
>
> Considering how many European hotels lack air conditioning, window screens
> would be useful in controlling mosquitoes access to sleeping quarters
> without the guests stifling to death due to lack of air circulation.
Many parts of Europe are not conducive to the proliferation of various
flying nuisances, especially mosquitos, so the screens probably wouldn't
get much use.
In 2003 I had a serious problem in my apartment with mosquitos (I never
did figure out where they were coming from), but most of the time in
Paris mosquitos are scarce, in all seasons.
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> Windows screens are similar to a filter that blocks insects from flying in
> through the windws, yet allows vision outside and breeze inside.
>
> Considering how many European hotels lack air conditioning, window screens
> would be useful in controlling mosquitoes access to sleeping quarters
> without the guests stifling to death due to lack of air circulation.
Many parts of Europe are not conducive to the proliferation of various
flying nuisances, especially mosquitos, so the screens probably wouldn't
get much use.
In 2003 I had a serious problem in my apartment with mosquitos (I never
did figure out where they were coming from), but most of the time in
Paris mosquitos are scarce, in all seasons.
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May 4th 2005, 8:30 am
#63
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
B Vaughan writes:
> Third, many Italians wouldn't dream of sleeping with the windows open,
> as the night air is considered dangerous to the health.
Sheesh ... first air conditioning is considered dangerous, then night
air. Where do people get these ideas?
> On those nights, he just didn't turn on a light in the bedroom
> as a way of discouraging mosquitoes.
Mosquitos don't care about light. They care about body heat, carbon
dioxide (exhaled by potential victims), and other factors, but they
aren't stopped by light.
> I also see more air conditioners for sale. Unless it gets a lot
> hotter, I wouldn't want that.
It will.
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> Third, many Italians wouldn't dream of sleeping with the windows open,
> as the night air is considered dangerous to the health.
Sheesh ... first air conditioning is considered dangerous, then night
air. Where do people get these ideas?
> On those nights, he just didn't turn on a light in the bedroom
> as a way of discouraging mosquitoes.
Mosquitos don't care about light. They care about body heat, carbon
dioxide (exhaled by potential victims), and other factors, but they
aren't stopped by light.
> I also see more air conditioners for sale. Unless it gets a lot
> hotter, I wouldn't want that.
It will.
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May 4th 2005, 8:39 am
#64
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
On Wed, 04 May 2005 10:30:23 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> I also see more air conditioners for sale. Unless it gets a lot
>> hotter, I wouldn't want that.
>It will.
This year so far we have managed 30 minutes of temperatures over
25DegC.
wrote:
>> I also see more air conditioners for sale. Unless it gets a lot
>> hotter, I wouldn't want that.
>It will.
This year so far we have managed 30 minutes of temperatures over
25DegC.
May 4th 2005, 8:46 am
#65
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Posts: n/a
Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
Gregory Morrow writes:
> I guess that Europeans: a)
> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
> entrepreneurial...
The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
> In the case of Italy such ridiculous superstitions about fresh air,
> refrigeration, air con, etc. are still commonly held. Italians won't dare
> have a window open at night because because they fear "night demons" or some
> such nonsense...
That's why Italy has such a huge and bustling economy and is such a key
superpower in the world.
> Even on the hottest days you won't commonly find ice in drinks, it's
> supposedly "bad for the digestion", lol...
Only if the water used to make them is contaminated ... which might well
be the case in a country that runs on superstition rather than science.
> Yet you see all these Europeans claiming here that insects are not a
> "problem".
They aren't a problem in Paris; I don't know about other places.
> This kind of thing would be a health code violation here in the States.
> Such places that show so little concern towards their customers' health and
> hygiene would be quickly shut down.
That's because Americans have a "decadent obsession" with hygiene,
didn't you know that? They insist on washing their hands after using
the toilet and on cleaning utensils and plates between customers, but
they allow the night demons to march right into their rooms in the
evening, and they destroy their gastrointestinal tracts by eating
dangerous ice cubes.
> I simply don't get this backwards myopic European attitude towards one's
> personal comfort and hygiene. Even the poorest people in the USA (and other
> places) simply will not put up with it.
As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
some of them were even actively looking for it. Those who stayed behind
were more likely to be conservative stick-in-the-mud types. This
natural sorting process has had both good and bad effects on both
societies, but one of the bad effects is that Europeans remain far more
hamstrung by superstitition and useless traditions than Americans, and
many technologies are adopted only very slowly in Europe because
Europeans are so afraid or reluctant to change (lower levels of
affluence also make it more expensive for them to change, although that
is their own choice, too).
--
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> I guess that Europeans: a)
> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
> entrepreneurial...
The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
> In the case of Italy such ridiculous superstitions about fresh air,
> refrigeration, air con, etc. are still commonly held. Italians won't dare
> have a window open at night because because they fear "night demons" or some
> such nonsense...
That's why Italy has such a huge and bustling economy and is such a key
superpower in the world.
> Even on the hottest days you won't commonly find ice in drinks, it's
> supposedly "bad for the digestion", lol...
Only if the water used to make them is contaminated ... which might well
be the case in a country that runs on superstition rather than science.
> Yet you see all these Europeans claiming here that insects are not a
> "problem".
They aren't a problem in Paris; I don't know about other places.
> This kind of thing would be a health code violation here in the States.
> Such places that show so little concern towards their customers' health and
> hygiene would be quickly shut down.
That's because Americans have a "decadent obsession" with hygiene,
didn't you know that? They insist on washing their hands after using
the toilet and on cleaning utensils and plates between customers, but
they allow the night demons to march right into their rooms in the
evening, and they destroy their gastrointestinal tracts by eating
dangerous ice cubes.
> I simply don't get this backwards myopic European attitude towards one's
> personal comfort and hygiene. Even the poorest people in the USA (and other
> places) simply will not put up with it.
As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
some of them were even actively looking for it. Those who stayed behind
were more likely to be conservative stick-in-the-mud types. This
natural sorting process has had both good and bad effects on both
societies, but one of the bad effects is that Europeans remain far more
hamstrung by superstitition and useless traditions than Americans, and
many technologies are adopted only very slowly in Europe because
Europeans are so afraid or reluctant to change (lower levels of
affluence also make it more expensive for them to change, although that
is their own choice, too).
--
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May 4th 2005, 8:47 am
#66
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Posts: n/a
Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
Gregory Morrow wrote:
>
> Europeans by and large aren't interested in taking a few easy steps to
> improve their lot, you'll never see window screens in Europe. They would
> never do something so practical.
>
Nice try, bush hole.
>
> Europeans by and large aren't interested in taking a few easy steps to
> improve their lot, you'll never see window screens in Europe. They would
> never do something so practical.
>
Nice try, bush hole.
May 4th 2005, 8:52 am
#67
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
Gregory Morrow writes:
> Just wait - with warmer weather now you'll see discussionson this froup that
> bring up the subject of air - conditioning, and many of the Europeans here
> will deride AC as a silly Yankee affectation. This despite the fact that AC
> is becoming increasingly common the world over ...
It is very heavily used in hot climates everywhere, where the local
economy can afford it. A/C is extremely common in the Middle East, for
example. Even itinerant Bedouins may bring portable A/C equipment with
them to keep tents cool.
> Hopefully there will not be another huge European heat wave like there was
> several years ago. You can bet that despite the need for air conditioning
> during such heat spells Europeans by and large have ignored the message.
They have in France. More than 10,000 people died in the 2003 heat
wave, and yet the one possible solution that has not yet occurred to the
French is also the most scientifically obvious: air conditioning.
Believe it or not, in Paris, even the brand-new George Pompidou hospital
was designed _without_ air conditioning! Temperatures there soared past
40° C in the heat wave, and there was nothing that could be done; the
building can't even be easily retrofitted for A/C. Staff had to rotate
patients in and out of operating rooms (the only rooms in the building
with refrigeration) in order to keep them from developing heatstroke.
And despite this, the French government still hasn't seen the light.
They still talk about supporting old people and so on, and ignore the
fact that the real root of the problem is that it was JUST TOO HOT. And
only way you can get rid of heat is with active cooling--air
conditioning.
> They'll sit around and squawk and gawk *after* the fact but they won't do
> anything about it, even if many hundreds of thousands of people die...
Yes.
> Heck, even a supposedly First World country like France doesn't have AC in
> it's hospitals...
Yes, see above.
I think the American Hospital in Neuilly may be air-conditioned, though.
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> Just wait - with warmer weather now you'll see discussionson this froup that
> bring up the subject of air - conditioning, and many of the Europeans here
> will deride AC as a silly Yankee affectation. This despite the fact that AC
> is becoming increasingly common the world over ...
It is very heavily used in hot climates everywhere, where the local
economy can afford it. A/C is extremely common in the Middle East, for
example. Even itinerant Bedouins may bring portable A/C equipment with
them to keep tents cool.
> Hopefully there will not be another huge European heat wave like there was
> several years ago. You can bet that despite the need for air conditioning
> during such heat spells Europeans by and large have ignored the message.
They have in France. More than 10,000 people died in the 2003 heat
wave, and yet the one possible solution that has not yet occurred to the
French is also the most scientifically obvious: air conditioning.
Believe it or not, in Paris, even the brand-new George Pompidou hospital
was designed _without_ air conditioning! Temperatures there soared past
40° C in the heat wave, and there was nothing that could be done; the
building can't even be easily retrofitted for A/C. Staff had to rotate
patients in and out of operating rooms (the only rooms in the building
with refrigeration) in order to keep them from developing heatstroke.
And despite this, the French government still hasn't seen the light.
They still talk about supporting old people and so on, and ignore the
fact that the real root of the problem is that it was JUST TOO HOT. And
only way you can get rid of heat is with active cooling--air
conditioning.
> They'll sit around and squawk and gawk *after* the fact but they won't do
> anything about it, even if many hundreds of thousands of people die...
Yes.
> Heck, even a supposedly First World country like France doesn't have AC in
> it's hospitals...
Yes, see above.
I think the American Hospital in Neuilly may be air-conditioned, though.
--
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May 4th 2005, 8:53 am
#68
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
Deep Foiled Malls writes:
> Anyone gonna bite?
While his tone is inflammatory, what he is says remains largely true.
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> Anyone gonna bite?
While his tone is inflammatory, what he is says remains largely true.
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May 4th 2005, 9:08 am
#69
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
nitram writes:
> This year so far we have managed 30 minutes of temperatures over
> 25DegC.
In Paris we've managed many hours of such temperatures, and normally
there should not have been any such extremes this early in the year.
--
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> This year so far we have managed 30 minutes of temperatures over
> 25DegC.
In Paris we've managed many hours of such temperatures, and normally
there should not have been any such extremes this early in the year.
--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
May 4th 2005, 9:22 am
#70
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Gregory Morrow writes:
>> I guess that Europeans: a)
>> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
>> entrepreneurial...
> The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
Explain how that fits in with the start of the Industrial revolution
being in the UK and the minor fact that the train and motor car
were introduced into Europe before the USA.
<snip>
As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
> by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
You returned to Europe.
What lesson should we learn from that I wonder ?
Keith
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> Gregory Morrow writes:
>> I guess that Europeans: a)
>> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
>> entrepreneurial...
> The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
Explain how that fits in with the start of the Industrial revolution
being in the UK and the minor fact that the train and motor car
were introduced into Europe before the USA.
<snip>
As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
> by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
You returned to Europe.
What lesson should we learn from that I wonder ?
Keith
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May 4th 2005, 9:30 am
#71
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Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
On Wed, 04 May 2005 09:44:31 +0200, nitram wrote:
> On Wed, 4 May 2005 09:39:25 +0200, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 04 May 2005 02:52:14 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>> Tom Peel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bert Hyman wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] (Tom Peel) wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>Now, the question is: why do Americans oppose the Kippdrehfenster?
>>>>>>Not only do they not exist, there is not even a word in the English
>>>>>>language to describe them AFAIF. The Kippdrehfenster is a double
>>>>>>glazed window that can be either opened along the vertical hinge,
>>>>>>like a door, or a along a hinge at the bottom, to tilt.
>>>>> You mean like these?
>>> http://homeowner.marvin.com/products...1D9EAD13661B2F
>>>> OK - they have heard of them in Minneapolis - isn't half the population
>>>> originally German?
>>>
>>> Believe it or not even those rustic Minnesotans have moved on to more
>>> practical solutions such as central heating, central air conditioning, and
>>> window screens for their climate control needs.
>>They don't have windows that open?
>
> You can't recirculate the air ten times, if you have windows that
> open.
Then you don't need flyscreens either. :-)
--
Tim C.
> On Wed, 4 May 2005 09:39:25 +0200, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 04 May 2005 02:52:14 GMT, Gregory Morrow wrote:
>>> Tom Peel wrote:
>>>
>>>> Bert Hyman wrote:
>>>>> [email protected] (Tom Peel) wrote in
>>>>> news:[email protected]:
>>>>>>Now, the question is: why do Americans oppose the Kippdrehfenster?
>>>>>>Not only do they not exist, there is not even a word in the English
>>>>>>language to describe them AFAIF. The Kippdrehfenster is a double
>>>>>>glazed window that can be either opened along the vertical hinge,
>>>>>>like a door, or a along a hinge at the bottom, to tilt.
>>>>> You mean like these?
>>> http://homeowner.marvin.com/products...1D9EAD13661B2F
>>>> OK - they have heard of them in Minneapolis - isn't half the population
>>>> originally German?
>>>
>>> Believe it or not even those rustic Minnesotans have moved on to more
>>> practical solutions such as central heating, central air conditioning, and
>>> window screens for their climate control needs.
>>They don't have windows that open?
>
> You can't recirculate the air ten times, if you have windows that
> open.
Then you don't need flyscreens either. :-)
--
Tim C.
May 4th 2005, 9:31 am
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
On Wed, 04 May 2005 09:45:02 +0200, nitram wrote:
> On Wed, 4 May 2005 09:39:52 +0200, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 03 May 2005 14:46:40 GMT, spamfree wrote:
>>> As I understand it, this window tilts in at the top or swings like a door
>>> outwards.
>>Inwards.
>
> swings in and falls outwards :-)
Falls inwards on top of you.
--
Tim C.
> On Wed, 4 May 2005 09:39:52 +0200, Tim Challenger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 03 May 2005 14:46:40 GMT, spamfree wrote:
>>> As I understand it, this window tilts in at the top or swings like a door
>>> outwards.
>>Inwards.
>
> swings in and falls outwards :-)
Falls inwards on top of you.
--
Tim C.
May 4th 2005, 9:31 am
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
On Wed, 04 May 2005 11:08:09 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:
>nitram writes:
>> This year so far we have managed 30 minutes of temperatures over
>> 25DegC.
>In Paris we've managed many hours of such temperatures, and normally
>there should not have been any such extremes this early in the year.
Despite which I have been in Paris several times in May, when the
temperature has reached 25 degC, I think it's fairly normal.
wrote:
>nitram writes:
>> This year so far we have managed 30 minutes of temperatures over
>> 25DegC.
>In Paris we've managed many hours of such temperatures, and normally
>there should not have been any such extremes this early in the year.
Despite which I have been in Paris several times in May, when the
temperature has reached 25 degC, I think it's fairly normal.
May 4th 2005, 9:33 am
#74
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Posts: n/a
Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
On Wed, 4 May 2005 10:22:41 +0100, "Keith W"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> Gregory Morrow writes:
>>> I guess that Europeans: a)
>>> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
>>> entrepreneurial...
>> The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
>Explain how that fits in with the start of the Industrial revolution
>being in the UK and the minor fact that the train and motor car
>were introduced into Europe before the USA.
><snip>
> As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
>> by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
>You returned to Europe.
>What lesson should we learn from that I wonder ?
LOL Eugenics?
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> Gregory Morrow writes:
>>> I guess that Europeans: a)
>>> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
>>> entrepreneurial...
>> The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
>Explain how that fits in with the start of the Industrial revolution
>being in the UK and the minor fact that the train and motor car
>were introduced into Europe before the USA.
><snip>
> As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
>> by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
>You returned to Europe.
>What lesson should we learn from that I wonder ?
LOL Eugenics?
May 4th 2005, 9:37 am
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Why do Europeans Oppose Window Screens?
On Wed, 04 May 2005 11:33:11 +0200, nitram wrote:
> On Wed, 4 May 2005 10:22:41 +0100, "Keith W"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>> Gregory Morrow writes:
>>>> I guess that Europeans: a)
>>>> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
>>>> entrepreneurial...
>>> The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
>>Explain how that fits in with the start of the Industrial revolution
>>being in the UK and the minor fact that the train and motor car
>>were introduced into Europe before the USA.
>><snip>
>> As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
>>> by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
>>You returned to Europe.
>>What lesson should we learn from that I wonder ?
>
> LOL Eugenics?
:)
Ten years ago it would have been Eecgenics?
--
Tim C.
> On Wed, 4 May 2005 10:22:41 +0100, "Keith W"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>>"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>news:[email protected]. ..
>>> Gregory Morrow writes:
>>>> I guess that Europeans: a)
>>>> prefer to remain living in a primitive state, b) are not very
>>>> entrepreneurial...
>>> The entrepreneurial and technology-oriented ones moved to the U.S.
>>Explain how that fits in with the start of the Industrial revolution
>>being in the UK and the minor fact that the train and motor car
>>were introduced into Europe before the USA.
>><snip>
>> As I've indicated above, I think this is because the U.S. was populated
>>> by waves of European immigrants who did not fear adventure and change;
>>You returned to Europe.
>>What lesson should we learn from that I wonder ?
>
> LOL Eugenics?
:)
Ten years ago it would have been Eecgenics?
--
Tim C.