War and Travel Plans???
Mar 3rd 2003 | 2:09 am
#91
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
le Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:34:37 +0000, dans l'article , Marie Lewis a dit ...=20
>>Bush should not have to "sell" this war to the French and the Germans. =
They
>>should be supporting UN resolution.
> Not if they do not agree with it. How many resolutions of the UN has=20
> the USA vetoed?
Strange you should ask that, Marie: Earl just posted a very interesting
article to news:alt.activism.death-penalty, which I include below. I lik=
e
the expression 'spoiled brat': it just about sums up the attitude of many
Americans.
----------
What is curious now, it the American spoiled brat attitude
that anybody could threaten to use the veto against its
interests.
Earl
*******
Unlike U.S., France wields its veto power sparingly
=A0=20=20=20=20=20
Barry James/IHT International Herald Tribune
Monday, March 3, 2003
PARIS In the 57-year history of the United Nations, the five permanent
members of the UN Security Council have vetoed more than 250 proposals, b=
ut
seldom has the power to say no raised as much political dust as France's
possible use of its veto to block authorization of the use of force in Ir=
aq.
.In the early days of the United Nations, the Soviet commissar and later
minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, said no so many times t=
hat
he was known as "Mr. Veto."
.The Soviet Union was responsible for nearly half of all vetoes ever cast=
.
Molotov regularly rejected bids for new membership because of the U.S.
refusal to admit the Soviet republics. The United States has invoked its
veto power 76 times, usually to ward off actions against Israel.
.Under the United Nations' founding rules, only the permanent members hav=
e
the right of veto, a single blocking vote that outweighs any majority.
.For all its criticism of France in the current situation, the United Sta=
tes
is the only permanent member of the Security Council to have used its vet=
o
power frequently in recent years. Most recently, it vetoed an otherwise
unanimous Security Council resolution in December that criticized the
Israeli government for a series of attacks by its occupation forces again=
st
UN workers and facilities in the Palestinian territories.
.The veto has been invoked in only a few cases where vital international
security issues are at stake, and the current crisis may become one of th=
em.
.Diplomats say President Jacques Chirac of France is walking a tightrope.=
If
he declares that he will not use the veto power, France would lose much o=
f
its negotiating clout in the Security Council. If he announces that he wi=
ll
veto military action against Iraq, the United States and Britain would ha=
ve
no further interest in seeking UN endorsement for their actions.
.There is also the argument that a veto by France will irreparably damage
the United Nations, but the Iraq question is a war and peace issue that w=
ill
divide the organization no matter which way France votes. And the UN has
survived other veto crises.
.The veto system was established to protect the interests of the founding
members of the United Nations, which were the countries that won World Wa=
r
II. At the UN founding conference in 1944, it was decided that the
representatives of Britain, China, the Soviet Union, the United States an=
d,
"in due course," France should be permanent members. France, of course, h=
ad
been defeated and occupied by Nazi Germany, but its role as a permanent
member of the League of Nations, its status as a colonial power and the
activities of the Free French forces on the allied side allowed it a plac=
e
at the table with the Big Four.
.Now that both Britain and France have declined in world power and Russia=
is
no longer a superpower, there have been frequent calls either to abolish
permanent membership or to bring in new permanent members to the Security
Council, which has the role of achieving and maintaining international pe=
ace
and security on a collective basis.
.As the United Nations was being established, the Soviet Union argued tha=
t
all its constituent republics should be members, and in fact it succeeded=
in
having Byelorussia and Ukraine accepted as separate states. The United
States has one vote for 50 states, and some argue that the European Union
should hold one of the permanent council seats.
.But the EU is not a sovereign state and therefore is not a UN member. It
has also been argued that Germany and Japan should become permanent membe=
rs
to spread the cost of peacekeeping. But this suggestion runs into the
opposition from Southern Hemisphere countries and the inflexibility of th=
e
permanent members with their veto power.
.Apart from the permanent five, the council also includes 10 members elec=
ted
by the General Assembly for two-year periods. Nine votes are required to
pass any resolution put before the council.
.In addition to the 251 public vetoes, the permanent members have cast 43
vetoes during closed sessions of the Security Council to block nominees f=
or
UN secretary-general.
.Beijing has cast a veto only four times since it took China's Security
Council seat in 1972, invariably to enforce its view that it and not Taiw=
an
is the legitimate government of the country. France also has used its vet=
o
power only 18 times, usually in collaboration with the United States and
Britain, and only twice on its own, to defend its interests in Indochina =
and
in the Indian Ocean.
.The last time that France has been involved in such a dramatic face-off
with the United States in the Security Council dates back to the Suez Can=
al
crisis of 1956. Using their veto powers for the first time, France and
Britain blocked a resolution calling for the withdrawal by Israel from
Egyptian territory it had seized in cooperation with the British and Fren=
ch.
The two countries blocked resolutions for a cease-fire in the face of
opposition by the United States and the Soviet Union. Furious, President
Dwight Eisenhower took the matter to the UN General Assembly, where the v=
eto
does not apply. The assembly then passed a resolution demanding the
withdrawal of all parties and, for the first time, established a UN
peacekeeping force.
.Diplomats say permanent members, particularly the United States, use the
threat of veto as a means of getting their way, a practice known as the
closet veto. In addition, the permanent five often meet privately to hash
out agreements, which are then imposed on the rest of the council.
--=20
Desmond Coughlan=20
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
>>Bush should not have to "sell" this war to the French and the Germans. =
They
>>should be supporting UN resolution.
> Not if they do not agree with it. How many resolutions of the UN has=20
> the USA vetoed?
Strange you should ask that, Marie: Earl just posted a very interesting
article to news:alt.activism.death-penalty, which I include below. I lik=
e
the expression 'spoiled brat': it just about sums up the attitude of many
Americans.
----------
What is curious now, it the American spoiled brat attitude
that anybody could threaten to use the veto against its
interests.
Earl
*******
Unlike U.S., France wields its veto power sparingly
=A0=20=20=20=20=20
Barry James/IHT International Herald Tribune
Monday, March 3, 2003
PARIS In the 57-year history of the United Nations, the five permanent
members of the UN Security Council have vetoed more than 250 proposals, b=
ut
seldom has the power to say no raised as much political dust as France's
possible use of its veto to block authorization of the use of force in Ir=
aq.
.In the early days of the United Nations, the Soviet commissar and later
minister for foreign affairs, Vyacheslav Molotov, said no so many times t=
hat
he was known as "Mr. Veto."
.The Soviet Union was responsible for nearly half of all vetoes ever cast=
.
Molotov regularly rejected bids for new membership because of the U.S.
refusal to admit the Soviet republics. The United States has invoked its
veto power 76 times, usually to ward off actions against Israel.
.Under the United Nations' founding rules, only the permanent members hav=
e
the right of veto, a single blocking vote that outweighs any majority.
.For all its criticism of France in the current situation, the United Sta=
tes
is the only permanent member of the Security Council to have used its vet=
o
power frequently in recent years. Most recently, it vetoed an otherwise
unanimous Security Council resolution in December that criticized the
Israeli government for a series of attacks by its occupation forces again=
st
UN workers and facilities in the Palestinian territories.
.The veto has been invoked in only a few cases where vital international
security issues are at stake, and the current crisis may become one of th=
em.
.Diplomats say President Jacques Chirac of France is walking a tightrope.=
If
he declares that he will not use the veto power, France would lose much o=
f
its negotiating clout in the Security Council. If he announces that he wi=
ll
veto military action against Iraq, the United States and Britain would ha=
ve
no further interest in seeking UN endorsement for their actions.
.There is also the argument that a veto by France will irreparably damage
the United Nations, but the Iraq question is a war and peace issue that w=
ill
divide the organization no matter which way France votes. And the UN has
survived other veto crises.
.The veto system was established to protect the interests of the founding
members of the United Nations, which were the countries that won World Wa=
r
II. At the UN founding conference in 1944, it was decided that the
representatives of Britain, China, the Soviet Union, the United States an=
d,
"in due course," France should be permanent members. France, of course, h=
ad
been defeated and occupied by Nazi Germany, but its role as a permanent
member of the League of Nations, its status as a colonial power and the
activities of the Free French forces on the allied side allowed it a plac=
e
at the table with the Big Four.
.Now that both Britain and France have declined in world power and Russia=
is
no longer a superpower, there have been frequent calls either to abolish
permanent membership or to bring in new permanent members to the Security
Council, which has the role of achieving and maintaining international pe=
ace
and security on a collective basis.
.As the United Nations was being established, the Soviet Union argued tha=
t
all its constituent republics should be members, and in fact it succeeded=
in
having Byelorussia and Ukraine accepted as separate states. The United
States has one vote for 50 states, and some argue that the European Union
should hold one of the permanent council seats.
.But the EU is not a sovereign state and therefore is not a UN member. It
has also been argued that Germany and Japan should become permanent membe=
rs
to spread the cost of peacekeeping. But this suggestion runs into the
opposition from Southern Hemisphere countries and the inflexibility of th=
e
permanent members with their veto power.
.Apart from the permanent five, the council also includes 10 members elec=
ted
by the General Assembly for two-year periods. Nine votes are required to
pass any resolution put before the council.
.In addition to the 251 public vetoes, the permanent members have cast 43
vetoes during closed sessions of the Security Council to block nominees f=
or
UN secretary-general.
.Beijing has cast a veto only four times since it took China's Security
Council seat in 1972, invariably to enforce its view that it and not Taiw=
an
is the legitimate government of the country. France also has used its vet=
o
power only 18 times, usually in collaboration with the United States and
Britain, and only twice on its own, to defend its interests in Indochina =
and
in the Indian Ocean.
.The last time that France has been involved in such a dramatic face-off
with the United States in the Security Council dates back to the Suez Can=
al
crisis of 1956. Using their veto powers for the first time, France and
Britain blocked a resolution calling for the withdrawal by Israel from
Egyptian territory it had seized in cooperation with the British and Fren=
ch.
The two countries blocked resolutions for a cease-fire in the face of
opposition by the United States and the Soviet Union. Furious, President
Dwight Eisenhower took the matter to the UN General Assembly, where the v=
eto
does not apply. The assembly then passed a resolution demanding the
withdrawal of all parties and, for the first time, established a UN
peacekeeping force.
.Diplomats say permanent members, particularly the United States, use the
threat of veto as a means of getting their way, a practice known as the
closet veto. In addition, the permanent five often meet privately to hash
out agreements, which are then imposed on the rest of the council.
--=20
Desmond Coughlan=20
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org
Mar 3rd 2003 | 3:52 am
#92
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
Following up to Desmond Coughlan
> The United States has invoked its
>veto power 76 times, usually to ward off actions against Israel.
and that's at the root of many of the regions problems.
--
Mike Reid
Land of roast meat "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/castile.htm"
(see web to email)
> The United States has invoked its
>veto power 76 times, usually to ward off actions against Israel.
and that's at the root of many of the regions problems.
--
Mike Reid
Land of roast meat "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/castile.htm"
(see web to email)
Mar 3rd 2003 | 4:19 am
#93
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
On Mon, 03 Mar 2003 06:43:44 GMT, in rec.travel.europe, "Alex Starke"
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... "SÃ¥ndor, the Gypsy Baron" wrote in message
... news:[email protected]...
... >
... > jobbahut55 wrote:
... >
... > >I will pass your sentiments along to my
... > > congressman. It is high time Germany takes
... > > care of it's own. I support closing our military
... > > bases in Germany.
... > >rg
... >
... > Again , I have to ask why would you do them such a favor. I thought you
... > don't like them
... >
... > Sandor
... >
... He'll probably close them up while he's over digging up bodies in Normandy.
I read that the USA had ordered some 30,000 extra body bags lately... Maybe he could use a
couple for all the bones he is going to dig up. LOL
======
Due to a lack of interest, tomorrow has been cancelled.
arranged some electrons, so they looked like this :
...
... "SÃ¥ndor, the Gypsy Baron" wrote in message
... news:[email protected]...
... >
... > jobbahut55 wrote:
... >
... > >I will pass your sentiments along to my
... > > congressman. It is high time Germany takes
... > > care of it's own. I support closing our military
... > > bases in Germany.
... > >rg
... >
... > Again , I have to ask why would you do them such a favor. I thought you
... > don't like them
... >
... > Sandor
... >
... He'll probably close them up while he's over digging up bodies in Normandy.
I read that the USA had ordered some 30,000 extra body bags lately... Maybe he could use a
couple for all the bones he is going to dig up. LOL
======
Due to a lack of interest, tomorrow has been cancelled.
Mar 3rd 2003 | 6:07 am
#94
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
"greg byshenk" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Charles Hawtrey wrote:
> > There was an extensive article on this subject in the fourth section
> > of yesterday's (Feb 28) Wall Street Journal. I used to be one of the
> > first to tell people "don't be silly, go on your trip and have fun."
> > But now I'm hearing so many disturbing stories from reasonably
> > credible media sources that I'm beginning to wonder.
> Any hint as to the content of the article? It is inaccessible via the
> web unless one pays for it, apart from the teaser:
> With much of Europe antiwar, some U.S. travelers are being snubbed.
Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
news:[email protected]...
> Charles Hawtrey wrote:
> > There was an extensive article on this subject in the fourth section
> > of yesterday's (Feb 28) Wall Street Journal. I used to be one of the
> > first to tell people "don't be silly, go on your trip and have fun."
> > But now I'm hearing so many disturbing stories from reasonably
> > credible media sources that I'm beginning to wonder.
> Any hint as to the content of the article? It is inaccessible via the
> web unless one pays for it, apart from the teaser:
> With much of Europe antiwar, some U.S. travelers are being snubbed.
Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
Mar 3rd 2003 | 6:24 am
#95
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
Mike O'Sullivan wrote:
> "greg byshenk" wrote:
>> Any hint as to the content of the article? It is inaccessible via the
>> web unless one pays for it, apart from the teaser:
>> With much of Europe antiwar, some U.S. travelers are being snubbed.
> Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
> than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
One of you is talking about governments, and the other about people.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> "greg byshenk" wrote:
>> Any hint as to the content of the article? It is inaccessible via the
>> web unless one pays for it, apart from the teaser:
>> With much of Europe antiwar, some U.S. travelers are being snubbed.
> Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
> than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
One of you is talking about governments, and the other about people.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Mar 3rd 2003 | 6:50 am
#96
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
Following up to Mike O'Sullivan
>> With much of Europe antiwar, some U.S. travelers are being snubbed.
>Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
>than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
In Spain, anti war posters are everywhere, Aznar supports the war, the
people do not. One survey said 85% against.
--
Mike Reid
Land of roast meat "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/castile.htm"
(see web to email)
>> With much of Europe antiwar, some U.S. travelers are being snubbed.
>Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
>than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
In Spain, anti war posters are everywhere, Aznar supports the war, the
people do not. One survey said 85% against.
--
Mike Reid
Land of roast meat "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/castile.htm"
(see web to email)
Mar 3rd 2003 | 7:03 am
#97
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
Message from Mike O'Sullivan:
> Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
> than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
We are speaking of the public opinions here, not the chilly
governments who forget the tradition of humanism and blindly support
the US for various dubious reasons: money (Eastern countries),
convictions (Britain) or just plain stupidity (Berlusconi, Aznar).
--
Philippe Noth, Clarens/Montreux, Switzerland
http://www.noth.ch/
> Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
> than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
We are speaking of the public opinions here, not the chilly
governments who forget the tradition of humanism and blindly support
the US for various dubious reasons: money (Eastern countries),
convictions (Britain) or just plain stupidity (Berlusconi, Aznar).
--
Philippe Noth, Clarens/Montreux, Switzerland
http://www.noth.ch/
Mar 3rd 2003 | 7:11 am
#98
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
In article ,
Philippe Noth wrote:
> Message from Mike O'Sullivan:
> > Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
> > than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
>
> We are speaking of the public opinions here, not the chilly
> governments who forget the tradition of humanism and blindly support
> the US for various dubious reasons: money (Eastern countries),
> convictions (Britain) or just plain stupidity (Berlusconi, Aznar).
1940 polls in the U.S. top 85% for remaining out of war.
Democracies have many virtues, reacting to threats in a timely manner is
not one of them... to date.
jay
Mon, Mar 3, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Philippe Noth wrote:
> Message from Mike O'Sullivan:
> > Much of Europe? With ( believe) 18 countries in Europe, can you name more
> > than two (the usual suspects) who are not supporting the US?
>
> We are speaking of the public opinions here, not the chilly
> governments who forget the tradition of humanism and blindly support
> the US for various dubious reasons: money (Eastern countries),
> convictions (Britain) or just plain stupidity (Berlusconi, Aznar).
1940 polls in the U.S. top 85% for remaining out of war.
Democracies have many virtues, reacting to threats in a timely manner is
not one of them... to date.
jay
Mon, Mar 3, 2003
mailto:[email protected]
--
Legend insists that as he finished his abject...
Galileo muttered under his breath: "Nevertheless, it does move."
Mar 3rd 2003 | 7:43 am
#99
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
Joe wrote:
> Hello,
> I have plans to travel to Europe (I'm from the US) on March 24 to arrive
> back April 17. I'm somewhat worried about how this potential war with Iraq
> can affect plans. How are many of the rest of you planning around this or
> are you still going ahead and travelling?
> Joe
My wife, daughter and I are going to Belgium, France and UK from March 29-
April 7.
By the way, I love the USA, but I do not support Bush's crusade in Iraq.
--
If I'm a twinkie, then what are you?
> Hello,
> I have plans to travel to Europe (I'm from the US) on March 24 to arrive
> back April 17. I'm somewhat worried about how this potential war with Iraq
> can affect plans. How are many of the rest of you planning around this or
> are you still going ahead and travelling?
> Joe
My wife, daughter and I are going to Belgium, France and UK from March 29-
April 7.
By the way, I love the USA, but I do not support Bush's crusade in Iraq.
--
If I'm a twinkie, then what are you?
Mar 3rd 2003 | 8:55 am
#100
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
The following article 'US Travelers Share Views on 2003 Including War,
Terrorism, & The Economy' provides some stats I found relevant to your
question.
Stephane (your Tyzo.com friend)
Terrorism, & The Economy' provides some stats I found relevant to your
question.
Stephane (your Tyzo.com friend)
Mar 3rd 2003 | 3:48 pm
#101
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article , rg
> writes
> >
> >We have decided to air travel to Florida and then take a cruise to the
> >Bahamas instead.
> >
> >So, we will spend our money, and we will spend most of it in or near the
US.
> >
> >But that is just the tip of the iceberg. My intention is to show the
French
> >and the Germans that they stand to lose more from Americans than they do
> >from their oil contracts with Saddam Hussein. And they are probably
going
> >to lose those contracts with SH anyway so now they will lose on two
fronts.
> Do you honestly believe that the French and Germans will even know what
> you are doing? Are you so important?
Do you honestly beleive that the ministry of tourism will not notice the
down numbers when they tally them for the year?
> Never mind, anyway. We will not be making our annual month long trip to
> the USA this year. Instead we shall be going to France for 6 weeks.
> Magnifique!
> >
Do you honestly beleive that WE will miss YOU? Ha! You must think you are
very important.
> >I hope it is the last time the French decide to vote for their
pocketbooks
> >at the expense of world security.
> What is a pocketbook and how does one vote for it? Does one not vote
> for candidates in most countries?
Your ignorance is astounding.
> > But then, they didn't even defend their
> >own country in WWII from the Germans so I doubt if they will ever defend
> >anything from anyone.
> You don't know much, do you?
> >
Are you saying that the French defended their country in WWII from the
Germans? I guess those thousands of American men buried at Normandy were
just dove hunting. You are ignorant.
> >Why did they have streetlights on the champ elyses' before WW2? So the
> >Germans could see where they were marching.
> >
> >rg
> >
> >
> With attitudes like this, why even contemplate visiting Europe? Stay in
> your cosy little comfort zone.
> --
> Marie Lewis
I will visit Europe when I like. But I will not be going to France or
Germany.
rg
news:[email protected]...
> In article , rg
> writes
> >
> >We have decided to air travel to Florida and then take a cruise to the
> >Bahamas instead.
> >
> >So, we will spend our money, and we will spend most of it in or near the
US.
> >
> >But that is just the tip of the iceberg. My intention is to show the
French
> >and the Germans that they stand to lose more from Americans than they do
> >from their oil contracts with Saddam Hussein. And they are probably
going
> >to lose those contracts with SH anyway so now they will lose on two
fronts.
> Do you honestly believe that the French and Germans will even know what
> you are doing? Are you so important?
Do you honestly beleive that the ministry of tourism will not notice the
down numbers when they tally them for the year?
> Never mind, anyway. We will not be making our annual month long trip to
> the USA this year. Instead we shall be going to France for 6 weeks.
> Magnifique!
> >
Do you honestly beleive that WE will miss YOU? Ha! You must think you are
very important.
> >I hope it is the last time the French decide to vote for their
pocketbooks
> >at the expense of world security.
> What is a pocketbook and how does one vote for it? Does one not vote
> for candidates in most countries?
Your ignorance is astounding.
> > But then, they didn't even defend their
> >own country in WWII from the Germans so I doubt if they will ever defend
> >anything from anyone.
> You don't know much, do you?
> >
Are you saying that the French defended their country in WWII from the
Germans? I guess those thousands of American men buried at Normandy were
just dove hunting. You are ignorant.
> >Why did they have streetlights on the champ elyses' before WW2? So the
> >Germans could see where they were marching.
> >
> >rg
> >
> >
> With attitudes like this, why even contemplate visiting Europe? Stay in
> your cosy little comfort zone.
> --
> Marie Lewis
I will visit Europe when I like. But I will not be going to France or
Germany.
rg
Mar 3rd 2003 | 3:49 pm
#102
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
"Marie Lewis" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article , rg
> writes
> >Bush should not have to "sell" this war to the French and the Germans.
They
> >should be supporting UN resolution.
> Not if they do not agree with it. How many resolutions of the UN has
> the USA vetoed?
> --
> Marie Lewis
Are you saying that the French and the Germans and the Russians did not
support Resolution 1441?
You are ignorant.
rg
news:[email protected]...
> In article , rg
> writes
> >Bush should not have to "sell" this war to the French and the Germans.
They
> >should be supporting UN resolution.
> Not if they do not agree with it. How many resolutions of the UN has
> the USA vetoed?
> --
> Marie Lewis
Are you saying that the French and the Germans and the Russians did not
support Resolution 1441?
You are ignorant.
rg
Mar 3rd 2003 | 3:53 pm
#103
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
"Desmond Coughlan" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
le Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:34:37 +0000, dans l'article
, Marie Lewis
a dit ...
>>Bush should not have to "sell" this war to the French and the Germans.
They
>>should be supporting UN resolution.
> Not if they do not agree with it. How many resolutions of the UN has
> the USA vetoed?
Strange you should ask that, Marie: Earl just posted a very interesting
article to news:alt.activism.death-penalty, which I include below. I like
the expression 'spoiled brat': it just about sums up the attitude of many
Americans.
----------
What is curious now, it the American spoiled brat attitude
that anybody could threaten to use the veto against its
interests.
Earl
And the French and Germans are ignorant assholes.
Why don't you tell your leaders to turn in their UN credentials and go home.
The French wouldn't even take care of problems in their own back yard...ie.
the Balkans.
When was the last time that the French did anything?
Spoiled Brat? I doubt it. We just keep having to clean up all the messes
that the French create or ignore until it gets bad.
rg
news:[email protected]...
le Mon, 3 Mar 2003 08:34:37 +0000, dans l'article
, Marie Lewis
a dit ...
>>Bush should not have to "sell" this war to the French and the Germans.
They
>>should be supporting UN resolution.
> Not if they do not agree with it. How many resolutions of the UN has
> the USA vetoed?
Strange you should ask that, Marie: Earl just posted a very interesting
article to news:alt.activism.death-penalty, which I include below. I like
the expression 'spoiled brat': it just about sums up the attitude of many
Americans.
----------
What is curious now, it the American spoiled brat attitude
that anybody could threaten to use the veto against its
interests.
Earl
And the French and Germans are ignorant assholes.
Why don't you tell your leaders to turn in their UN credentials and go home.
The French wouldn't even take care of problems in their own back yard...ie.
the Balkans.
When was the last time that the French did anything?
Spoiled Brat? I doubt it. We just keep having to clean up all the messes
that the French create or ignore until it gets bad.
rg
Mar 3rd 2003 | 3:54 pm
#104
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
"The Reids" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Following up to Desmond Coughlan
> > The United States has invoked its
> >veto power 76 times, usually to ward off actions against Israel.
> and that's at the root of many of the regions problems.
> --
> Mike Reid
> Land of roast meat "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/castile.htm"
> (see web to email)
It's at the root of nothing.
The Palestinians unwillingness to live peacefully with Israel along with the
"complete death to Israel" attitude of the Hezbollah is the root of the
unrest there.
rg
news:[email protected]...
> Following up to Desmond Coughlan
> > The United States has invoked its
> >veto power 76 times, usually to ward off actions against Israel.
> and that's at the root of many of the regions problems.
> --
> Mike Reid
> Land of roast meat "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk/castile.htm"
> (see web to email)
It's at the root of nothing.
The Palestinians unwillingness to live peacefully with Israel along with the
"complete death to Israel" attitude of the Hezbollah is the root of the
unrest there.
rg
Mar 3rd 2003 | 3:56 pm
#105
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: War and Travel Plans???
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Deep Floyd Mars wrote:
> >
> >
> > Do you wonder why there is increasing spread of anti-Americanism?
> >
> > Bush and his colleagues have done a very poor job of sellling this war
to
> > the world at enormous cost to America and her allies. Your attitude of
> > "support us or else" shows your lack of appreciation for things
democratic.
> > This is not good cop, bad cop, it is America expecting everyone to fall
in
> > line after a few politicians made a decision to wage war on a dictator
that
> > has been relatively well behaved of late. Why not calm down some of the
> > existing hotspots on the planet instead of creating new ones?
> Because, whether or not he was elected by "the people", we have a moron
> in the White House?
And a much bigger moron posting here.....YOU!
rg
news:[email protected]...
> Deep Floyd Mars wrote:
> >
> >
> > Do you wonder why there is increasing spread of anti-Americanism?
> >
> > Bush and his colleagues have done a very poor job of sellling this war
to
> > the world at enormous cost to America and her allies. Your attitude of
> > "support us or else" shows your lack of appreciation for things
democratic.
> > This is not good cop, bad cop, it is America expecting everyone to fall
in
> > line after a few politicians made a decision to wage war on a dictator
that
> > has been relatively well behaved of late. Why not calm down some of the
> > existing hotspots on the planet instead of creating new ones?
> Because, whether or not he was elected by "the people", we have a moron
> in the White House?
And a much bigger moron posting here.....YOU!
rg
