Timothy Kroesen wrote:

    > I cannot think of a single time dining with strangers was other than
    > pleasant and somewhat social to downright entertaining and memorable.
    > I'm sure others have had different experiences on occasion <g>, but all
    > in all I'd bet most here who didn't grow up in a culture where this was
    > commonplace in general welcome and enjoy the experience. Why doesn't it
    > catch on in US culture as many here did come from somewhere where this
    > is common and accepted; we adopted pizza and espresso for example, yet
    > as a culture eschew the 'European' seating plan...?

In Stuttgart you can go to Besenwirtschaften (the wineries can sell
food as long as the new wine lasts, and advertise this by placing
outside a Besen-broom) where you will sit in the owner's dining room or
back yard sharing tables with others drinking the new wine and eating.
It is a lot of fun socializing with strangers in a pleasant
environment, much more enjoyable than sitting there with your wife just
eating. Likewise, sharing tables with strangers at one of the large
beer festivals is fun. You meet and socialize with a lot of different
types of people than you normally would, and a good time is had by all.
Just sharing a table in a normal restaurant usually isn't that
entertaining, but OK, and if it is a romantic dinner you just decline
others sitting with you, but in the better restaurants tables are not
shared, and you should have reservations.

George

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:06:17 +0100, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:48:29 +0000, Keith Anderson
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:38:49 +0000 (UTC), Wolfgang May
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>By the way, I strongly prefer this system against the anglo-saxon
    >>>system where you have a sign "queue here" and if you really want to
    >>>have a dinner, you have wait for hours. And immediately when finishing
    >>>dinner, you are expelled since other people are waiting for your table
    >>>to become available.
    >>We copied it from the former DDR :-)
    >Nah it was invented in Britain, don't be so bleeding modest.

You may have a valid point there - I'm pretty sure that the DDR
imported British school-dinner cooks to ruin the food.


Keith, Bristol, UK

Remove numbers for email replies

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:22:54 GMT, "Lennart Petersen"
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >-----------------
    >DDR was fun as you sometimes were advised to share a table with strangers.
    >Was a fun way to get in touch with local people if travelling single.
    >And as long there was a single seat available you could always enter the
    >restaurant.

Remember it well: many a time I was called forward from the queue to
join people in the HO Restaurants and tuck into a bowl of sloppy
solyanka. :-)




Keith, Bristol, UK

Remove numbers for email replies

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 16:28:22 +0000, Keith Anderson
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 22:06:17 +0100, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:48:29 +0000, Keith Anderson
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 20:38:49 +0000 (UTC), Wolfgang May
    >>><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>>By the way, I strongly prefer this system against the anglo-saxon
    >>>>system where you have a sign "queue here" and if you really want to
    >>>>have a dinner, you have wait for hours. And immediately when finishing
    >>>>dinner, you are expelled since other people are waiting for your table
    >>>>to become available.
    >>>We copied it from the former DDR :-)
    >>Nah it was invented in Britain, don't be so bleeding modest.
    >You may have a valid point there - I'm pretty sure that the DDR
    >imported British school-dinner cooks to ruin the food.

Maybe UK school-dinner cooks were Stasi agents.
Maybe the moustaches were false?
--
Martin

In article <[email protected]>, Keith Anderson
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:22:54 GMT, "Lennart Petersen"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    > >-----------------
    > >DDR was fun as you sometimes were advised to share a table with
    > >strangers.
    > >Was a fun way to get in touch with local people if travelling single.
    > >And as long there was a single seat available you could always enter the
    > >restaurant.
    >
    > Remember it well: many a time I was called forward from the queue to
    > join people in the HO Restaurants and tuck into a bowl of sloppy
    > solyanka. :-)
    >
Why just DDR? I was never there when it was that, but have often
shared a table with strangers in Germany.

--
Mary Loomer Oliver (aka Erilar),
philologist, biblioholic medievalist

http://www.airstreamcomm.net/~erilarlo

On Fri, 17 Mar 2006 11:48:10 -0600, erilar
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Keith Anderson
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 21:22:54 GMT, "Lennart Petersen"
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> >-----------------
    >> >DDR was fun as you sometimes were advised to share a table with
    >> >strangers.
    >> >Was a fun way to get in touch with local people if travelling single.
    >> >And as long there was a single seat available you could always enter the
    >> >restaurant.
    >>
    >> Remember it well: many a time I was called forward from the queue to
    >> join people in the HO Restaurants and tuck into a bowl of sloppy
    >> solyanka. :-)
    >>
    > Why just DDR? I was never there when it was that, but have often
    >shared a table with strangers in Germany.

Likewise - never had a problem with "Ist hier noch frei?"

The thread was more about queuing and in most DDR eateries you had to
join a queue.




Keith, Bristol, UK

Remove numbers for email replies

"Tim C." wrote:
    >
    > Following up to Dubiously Fragrant Muffin
    > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> :
    >
    > >Dissed for wearing jeans? That's a bit surprising! What actually
    > >happened?
    >
    > I'm a bit surprised as well. I've never had a problem and I always wear
    > jeans - but I've never tried to eat in the Sacher either. Not my sort of
    > place.
    > --
    > Tim C.

I've eaten in the Sacher in Graz in winter, and the men were wearing
slacks, sweaters and heavy coats. AFAIR the women were rather well
dressed, but not what you would call formally dressed.
--
wf.

randee wrote:
    >
    > "Tim C." wrote:
    >
    >>Following up to Dubiously Fragrant Muffin
    >><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> :
    >>>Dissed for wearing jeans? That's a bit surprising! What actually
    >>>happened?
    >>I'm a bit surprised as well. I've never had a problem and I always wear
    >>jeans - but I've never tried to eat in the Sacher either. Not my sort of
    >>place.
    >>--
    >>Tim C.
    >
    >
    > I've eaten in the Sacher in Graz in winter, and the men were wearing
    > slacks, sweaters and heavy coats. AFAIR the women were rather well
    > dressed, but not what you would call formally dressed.

Women are more likely to ENJOY "dressing up" than men are -
Some of us are glad of an excuse to do so, whereas men are
more likely to look for an excuse NOT to do so!

--
http://NewsGuy.com/overview.htm 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth

Tim C. wrote:
    > Icono Clast said:
    >> Walt Bilofsky wrote:
    >>> I am willing to pack slacks but not a jacket and tie. So - how
    >>> constrained will I be as far as eating dinner out, and will I get
    >>> dissed again?
    >>I hope so.
    >
    > Snob.

==========================================
From: Icono Clast
Date: Tues, Jul 25 1995 12:00 am
Email: [email protected] (Icono Clast)
Groups: rec.arts.dance
------------------------------------------
WA}appropriate attire for attending a dancer's wedding . . . Would
}guys have to wear a -gasp- suit?? Surely not, if they intend to
}dance, right?

Wrong! When the dancing starts, the suit disappears upon the doffing of
the jacket.

I really don't care what other people wear to dances or weddings or much
of anywhere else _unless_ the dress of others is important to the
creation of a certain atmosphere.

At my dance or wedding, I'd like to have a memorable atmosphere that
contributes to the pleasure of the experience but I would not try to
compel people to dress this way or that.

=================================================
Date: 05-16-95 (01:31) From: ICONO CLAST To: TONI
Subj: Carnelian Room
-------------------------------------------------
TO}opinions of the food,

Bad but edible;

TO}atmosphere,

Pleasant;

TO}view,

It's of my home. What could be sweeter?

TO}service,

Excellent, not perfect;

TO}dress

Business wear is fine.
---
* * It might be good to eat, but if it screams it's not food!
=================================================
Date: 05-20-95 (03:22) From: ICONO CLAST To: DREW
Subj: Carnelian Room
-------------------------------------------------
Drew S:
DS}Different people have different opinions on this, so what do YOU mean
}by business wear?

Look at a bank or insurance or sales or office clerk where people deal
with the public.

DS}jacket and tie are required. Is this really true?

I don't know. That's how I normally dress when I go out to dinner.

DS}What about a tie with no jacket?

Were I in charge, I'd not let you in. I think it's ridiculous to wear
a tie without a jacket beyond the confines of one's home or office.

DS}Are they at all flexible about this?

I don't know. They shouldn't be. I hope they're not. This is San
Francisco, not Daly City or Los Angeles!

DS}I'd love to go there, but even when I get really dressed up (dress
}shoes and pants, fancy shirt and socks, suspenders, stylish tie, etc)
}I don't wear a jacket, and I don't want to deal with hassle of
}getting all the way up there and getting turned away.

Well, maybe it's time you learn to dress like a man who's at leisure,
not at work.

Customers are as much a part of, and just as important to, the
atmosphere in a restaurant as the décor, service, and food. Do your
part for me just as I do mine for you. I'll be damned if I want to see
how you keep your pants up while I'm having dinner (or any other time,
come t'think of it).
---
* . . . I hear your eyeballs movin'." -- Big Jay MacNeeley

-- __________________________________________________ ______________

http://geocities.com/dancefest/ -<->- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 -------> IClast at Gmail com






































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Tim C. <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Walt Bilofsky <[email protected]> :
    >>But this was noontime, and it's my experience that reservations are
    >>not used as much for lunch.
    >Then your experience is lacking.

Well, it's quite broad, but I confess my experience may be lacking
with respect to both Austrian customs and what Austrians consider
courtesy.

Thank you for educating me on what I can expect in Vienna.

Following up to Icono Clast <[email protected]> :

    >One evening at a local Chinese restaurant, I was seated with a young man
    >who was reading the Chinese Times.
    > When my food was served, I asked him "How come you have chop sticks and
    >they gave me a fork?" "You're not Chinese!" "Oh."

I sometimes have to ask 2 or three times before they actually give me
chopsticks here.
--
Tim C.

On Mon, 20 Mar 2006 15:56:09 +0100, Tim C. <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Following up to Icono Clast <[email protected]> :
    >>One evening at a local Chinese restaurant, I was seated with a young man
    >>who was reading the Chinese Times.
    >> When my food was served, I asked him "How come you have chop sticks and
    >>they gave me a fork?" "You're not Chinese!" "Oh."
    >I sometimes have to ask 2 or three times before they actually give me
    >chopsticks here.

Typical McDs!
--
Martin

On Thu, 16 Mar 2006 17:15:27 -0800, Walt Bilofsky
<[email protected]> wrote:


    >I could be wrong, and I could be misinterpreting a cross-cultural
    >encounter. But I got the strong impression that it was an insult. And
    >I don't make that assumption often or lightly.

Yes, it was an insult. You can expect similar treatment if you go
barging into Tavern on the Green at high noon in jeans with a camera
strapped around your neck. It's not a Wiener thing. It's a class
thing. I also dealt with a snippy waiter or two in Vienna (not because
of my clothes, but because of my ignorance of grammatical German) and
in retrospect I thought it was great. I like the idea that oafs (like
me at times) get treated like oafs.

    >Now, Evelyn, it is all too possible that the insult was a payback for
    >the last belligerent American yahoo that tried to crash the place
    >despite the dress code. :(

That is a far more likely scenario. I'm sure there are plenty of
businesses in Vienna that are sick and ****ing tired of all the
white-sneakered clueless American retards with their baseball caps,
flag T-shirts and ridiculous khaki shorts. These Wieners create small
enclaves where they can enjoy Viennese life without tourons. You
probably walked into one of those enclaves and got The Boot.

Deal.

- TR

[Unuploadable for past eleven hours.]

Tim C. wrote:
    > Icono Clast said:
    >> One evening at a local Chinese restaurant, I was seated with a
    >> young man who was reading the Chinese Times. When my food was
    >> served, I asked him "How come you have chop sticks and they gave me
    >> a fork?" "You're not Chinese!" "Oh."
    > I sometimes have to ask 2 or three times before they actually give me
    > chopsticks here.

Most Chinese and Japanese places here set chop sticks and one must ask
for a fork. Some set both. A few just forks.

Not too long ago, we were in a Chinese restaurant where all of the
Asians were using forks and all of the others chop sticks. Go figger.

-- __________________________________________________ ______________
Un San Francisqueño quien dice, "¡Tu me lo sirves, yo lo comeré!"
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ -<->- http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 -------> IClast at Gmail com