Following up to "William Black" <[email protected]> wrote:

>This is because it's reckoned to be just about the most exciting and
>entertaining road to motorcycle along in Europe...

dont know that, I like the Hardnott and Wrynose passes in the ELD (in
a car).
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
City of Adelaide petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/cuttysarksister/
to email remove clothing.

Make credence recognised that on Mon, 16 Jul 2007 23:49:33 +0200,
Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:37:42 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
>>The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>>> (*)) wrote:
>>>
>>> >> What I hear coming from the motorways at night is the noise of motorbikes
>>> >
>>> >I don't hear them much- but they're the noisiest, for sure.
>>>
>>> Normal Breathing 10dB
>>> Soft whisper (at 5m) 30dB
>>> Normal Conversation 60dB
>>> Busy Traffic 70dB
>>> Average Factory 80dB
>>> Niagra Falls 90dB
>>> Aircraft taking off up to 100 dB
>>
>>Aircraft take off on motorways? Whatever next!
>
>Motor bike with open throttle 120 db

What motorbike is that??? Some of the 50cc ones here will get up to
182db with the tune of a flaming cat.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>>Motor bike with open throttle 120 db
>
>What motorbike is that??? Some of the 50cc ones here will get up to
>182db with the tune of a flaming cat.

?Almost all of the motorcycles we tested reached action-level noise,
which in the workplace would require ear protection,? said Joy Colle,
one of the study?s researchers. ?The loudest bike we tested measured
119 decibels with the engine revved"

Concorde was recorded at NY take off at 130 Db

I would say bikes and planes are the two loudest transport items we
come across.

(remember 20 db can be 10x louder).
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
City of Adelaide petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/cuttysarksister/
to email remove clothing.

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:48:28 +0200,
Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:

>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>chancellor (*)) wrote:

>>I live 12 km from Manchester airport, and rarely hear aircraft. There
>>are a limited number of flight paths into airports. There are probably
>>plenty of people the same distance from Schiphol who hardly notice them.
>
>Schiphol has 5 runways. Several are used simultaneously during the day.
>Schiphol is located in the midst of the most densely populated part of Holland.
>43,000,000 people are expected to pass through Schiphol this year.
>Several planes a minute pass over our house when the wind is from a northerly
>direction.

I can't figure out why you don't move your retired bums down to Spain
or somewhere!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>>(remember 20 db can be 10x louder).
>
>According to wiki:
>
>"to the human ear, one B in spl represents approximately
>twice-loudness, that is, 10 decibels or so."
>
>...which would make it only four times as loud.

its logarithmic I think.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
City of Adelaide petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/cuttysarksister/
to email remove clothing.

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 18:32:38 +0100, The
Reid <[email protected]> has scripted:

>(remember 20 db can be 10x louder).

According to wiki:

"to the human ear, one B in spl represents approximately
twice-loudness, that is, 10 decibels or so."

...which would make it only four times as loud.

I was taught it was that 3 db represented a doubling of sound to the
listener, but I suspect that's wrong.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 10:06:16 GMT, "William Black" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected].. .
>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:21:42 GMT, "William Black"
>> <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:1i1d8uc.5kzzvkowgydkN%[email protected].. .
>>>> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:27:56 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
>>>>> _the_
>>>>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 21:40:29 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
>>>>> >> _the_
>>>>> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>>>> >[]
>>>>> >> >I agree it's much worse when you live right next to an airport. For
>>>>> >> >fizz
>>>>> >> >sake, I live just a few miles from the main airport here, and
>>>>> >> >rarely
>>>>> >> >hear aircraft. I hear cars all the time, practically, as one does
>>>>> >> >in
>>>>> >> >cities.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> What I hear coming from the motorways at night is the noise of
>>>>> >> motorbikes
>>>>> >
>>>>> >I don't hear them much- but they're the noisiest, for sure.
>>>>>
>>>>> It's time that noise emission levels were enforced.
>>>>
>>>> I don't understand why they haven't been already. And I just heard a
>>>> motorbike go by, but not even on the road outside my building.
>>>
>>>It's complicated.
>>>
>>>Essentially it's illegal to run a motorcycle that doesn't conform to the
>>>regulations.
>>>
>>>However, if you are a motorcycle racer you may purchase an exhaust system
>>>that does not conform, but does give you more power, albeit with more
>>>noise...
>>>
>>>The racing exhausts are technically illegal and do not carry the correct
>>>markings that are required for an exhaust that is 'road legal'.
>>>
>>>But...
>>>
>>>Ownership of a racing exhaust is not a crime.
>>>
>>>Lots of people buy them, and some fit them, even though it's illegal.
>>>
>>>They put the old one on for MoT tests as there's a check for an approved
>>>exhaust on a motorcycle MoT test.
>>>
>>>Now...
>>>
>>>The equipment to check if a motorcycle is too loud is not terribly
>>>widespread.
>>>
>>>Therefore, to check the police would have to stop the motorcycle,
>>>examine
>>>a probably difficult to get at exhaust marking and do all the necessary
>>>paperwork, all for a minor 'construction and use' offence that will
>>>probably get two points and a fifty quid fine.
>>
>> The Dutch police used to measure sound levels and confiscate vehicles that
>> exceeded the legal limit.
>>
>>>
>>>You local traffic police probably consider that they've better things to
>>>do
>>>with their time than harassing people who aren't a danger to anyone.
>>
>> Judging from the number of motor cycle fatalities, especially in the area
>> where
>> you live they are a danger to themselves.
>
>But not because they're loud.
>
>The vast bulk of motorcycle accidents in the UK happen to inexperienced
>young people riding small capacity machines and people riding 'commuter'
>type machines without the correct protective clothing.
>
>Experienced riders riding large powerful 'sports' type machines at high
>speed (the sort of people who fit non-standard exhausts) tend not to fall
>off,

All the ones I knew fell off at least once. One fell off doing over 200 km/hr in
a built up area in Germany and survived.

>and if they do fall off they are almost invariably wearing armoured
>leather suits that protect them.

The last one in your area killed himself by hitting a tractor two or three weeks
ago.

>Some seventeen year old kid on a trendy scooter wearing trainers and an
>anorak is far more likely to be killed or injured than a 30 year old young
>man wearing a racing suit and riding on a Ducati 910 with a dodgy exhaust
>fitted.
>
>The cops know this.

Have you got a site with statistics to support this. North Yorkshire accident
reports indicate otherwise.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/england/2151766.stm
"Call to curb motorbike deaths
A campaign aimed at cutting the number of motorcyclists killed or injured in
crashes on North Yorkshire roads has started.

Since the beginning of the year, 16 bikers have died and 85 have been seriously
injured while a further 91 have been hurt.

That is already above the county's average yearly bike crash death toll of 14.

North Yorkshire Police say those most at risk are "born again" riders who have
just returned to motorcycling and riders of high-powered superbikes."


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/low/uk_news/1862855.stm
"Latest figures show that there were almost 2,500 under-30-year-olds killed or
seriously injured. That compares to more than three thousand for the 30- to
50-year-old age group."

>
>I do have to add that the road between Pickering and Whitby is different
>because people come from all over Europe to drive very fast down it with
>large, noisy and powerful motorcycles.
>
>This is because it's reckoned to be just about the most exciting and
>entertaining road to motorcycle along in Europe...

Not very entertaining for normal road users.

Bilsdale/Helmsley TT - the Stokesley road is the current favourite place in N
Yorks to die on a m/bike.

--

Martin

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:57:36 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:48:28 +0200,
>Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>>chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
>>>I live 12 km from Manchester airport, and rarely hear aircraft. There
>>>are a limited number of flight paths into airports. There are probably
>>>plenty of people the same distance from Schiphol who hardly notice them.
>>
>>Schiphol has 5 runways. Several are used simultaneously during the day.
>>Schiphol is located in the midst of the most densely populated part of Holland.
>>43,000,000 people are expected to pass through Schiphol this year.
>>Several planes a minute pass over our house when the wind is from a northerly
>>direction.
>
>I can't figure out why you don't move your retired bums down to Spain
>or somewhere!

because I don't find living in a place like Spain attractive.
--

Martin

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:01:03 +0100, The
Reid <[email protected]> has scripted:

>Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>>(remember 20 db can be 10x louder).
>>
>>According to wiki:
>>
>>"to the human ear, one B in spl represents approximately
>>twice-loudness, that is, 10 decibels or so."
>>
>>...which would make it only four times as loud.
>
>its logarithmic I think.

The relationship between power and decibels is logarithmic, but I
believe decibels are linear to the human ear - by design. Otherwise,
why would they create the relationship?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>, but I
>believe decibels are linear to the human ear - by design. Otherwise,
>why would they create the relationship?

I looked at the page in wikepdia, I dont see the linear thing, but its
not an easy read. Have a look.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
City of Adelaide petition
http://petitions.pm.gov.uk/cuttysarksister/
to email remove clothing.

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:04:35 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:01:03 +0100, The
>Reid <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>>Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop
>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>>>>(remember 20 db can be 10x louder).
>>>
>>>According to wiki:
>>>
>>>"to the human ear, one B in spl represents approximately
>>>twice-loudness, that is, 10 decibels or so."
>>>
>>>...which would make it only four times as loud.
>>
>>its logarithmic I think.
>
>The relationship between power and decibels is logarithmic, but I
>believe decibels are linear to the human ear - by design. Otherwise,
>why would they create the relationship?

http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2b.html

"Since the range of intensities which the human ear can detect is so large, the
scale which is frequently used by physicists to measure intensity is a scale
based on multiples of 10. This type of scale is sometimes referred to as a
logarithmic scale. The scale for measuring intensity is the decibel scale. The
threshold of hearing is assigned a sound level of 0 decibels (abbreviated 0 dB);
this sound corresponds to an intensity of 1*10-12 W/m2. A sound which is 10
times more intense ( 1*10-11 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 10 dB. A sound
which is 10*10 or 100 times more intense ( 1*10-10 W/m2) is assigned a sound
level of 20 db. A sound which is 10*10*10 or 1000 times more intense ( 1*10-9
W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 30 db. A sound which is 10*10*10*10 or 10000
times more intense ( 1*10-8 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 40 db. Observe
that this scale is based on powers or multiples of 10. If one sound is 10x times
more intense than another sound, then it has a sound level which is 10*x more
decibels than the less intense sound. The table below lists some common sounds
with an estimate of their intensity and decibel level.

..."

Note 160db produces instant perforation of the eardrum.
--

Martin

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 22:05:52 +0100, The
Reid <[email protected]> has scripted:

>Following up to Doesn't Frequently Mop
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>, but I
>>believe decibels are linear to the human ear - by design. Otherwise,
>>why would they create the relationship?
>
>I looked at the page in wikepdia, I dont see the linear thing, but its
>not an easy read. Have a look.

I have, and that's what I understood. Now I'll just wait for someone
to prove us all silly!

Note that the notion of linearity to the human ear is very subjective,
and thus the coefficient is at best nominal. What it doesn't deal with
is the damage that transients cause, which also is logarithmic. In
various settings (like a factory, concerts) this can be a much greater
factor.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:02:09 +0200,
Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:

>On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:57:36 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>
>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:48:28 +0200,
>>Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:
>>
>>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>>>chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>>>>I live 12 km from Manchester airport, and rarely hear aircraft. There
>>>>are a limited number of flight paths into airports. There are probably
>>>>plenty of people the same distance from Schiphol who hardly notice them.
>>>
>>>Schiphol has 5 runways. Several are used simultaneously during the day.
>>>Schiphol is located in the midst of the most densely populated part of Holland.
>>>43,000,000 people are expected to pass through Schiphol this year.
>>>Several planes a minute pass over our house when the wind is from a northerly
>>>direction.
>>
>>I can't figure out why you don't move your retired bums down to Spain
>>or somewhere!
>
>because I don't find living in a place like Spain attractive.

Ah.

I guess Outer Schiphol it is then.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:51:00 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:02:09 +0200,
>Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:
>
>>On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 19:57:36 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
>><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>>
>>>Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:48:28 +0200,
>>>Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:
>>>
>>>>On Mon, 16 Jul 2007 22:51:21 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>>>>chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>>
>>>>>I live 12 km from Manchester airport, and rarely hear aircraft. There
>>>>>are a limited number of flight paths into airports. There are probably
>>>>>plenty of people the same distance from Schiphol who hardly notice them.
>>>>
>>>>Schiphol has 5 runways. Several are used simultaneously during the day.
>>>>Schiphol is located in the midst of the most densely populated part of Holland.
>>>>43,000,000 people are expected to pass through Schiphol this year.
>>>>Several planes a minute pass over our house when the wind is from a northerly
>>>>direction.
>>>
>>>I can't figure out why you don't move your retired bums down to Spain
>>>or somewhere!
>>
>>because I don't find living in a place like Spain attractive.
>
>Ah.
>
>I guess Outer Schiphol it is then.

IJsselmeer and local tennis courts when the weather permits.

Is it really 38C max in northern Italy at the moment?

If I was going to move anywhere it would be to S Australia.
--

Martin

Make credence recognised that on Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:26:59 +0200,
Martin <[email protected]> has scripted:

>On Tue, 17 Jul 2007 23:04:35 +0200, Doesn't Frequently Mop
><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

>>The relationship between power and decibels is logarithmic, but I
>>believe decibels are linear to the human ear - by design. Otherwise,
>>why would they create the relationship?
>
>http://www.glenbrook.k12.il.us/GBSSC...nd/u11l2b.html
>
>"Since the range of intensities which the human ear can detect is so large, the
>scale which is frequently used by physicists to measure intensity is a scale
>based on multiples of 10. This type of scale is sometimes referred to as a
>logarithmic scale. The scale for measuring intensity is the decibel scale. The
>threshold of hearing is assigned a sound level of 0 decibels (abbreviated 0 dB);
>this sound corresponds to an intensity of 1*10-12 W/m2. A sound which is 10
>times more intense ( 1*10-11 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 10 dB. A sound
>which is 10*10 or 100 times more intense ( 1*10-10 W/m2) is assigned a sound
>level of 20 db. A sound which is 10*10*10 or 1000 times more intense ( 1*10-9
>W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 30 db. A sound which is 10*10*10*10 or 10000
>times more intense ( 1*10-8 W/m2) is assigned a sound level of 40 db. Observe
>that this scale is based on powers or multiples of 10. If one sound is 10x times
>more intense than another sound, then it has a sound level which is 10*x more
>decibels than the less intense sound. The table below lists some common sounds
>with an estimate of their intensity and decibel level.
>
>..."
>
>Note 160db produces instant perforation of the eardrum.

Is that to someone who has been subject to a loud rock concert, or a
person who has been sitting in an anechoic chamber for half an hour?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--