U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Jun 23rd 2005, 4:56 am
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Robert J Carpenter wrote:
> The problem with ALL the comments on this subject is that the original
> story was sloppy reporting.
> I think you will find that the rule does NOT say "BUILT", it says
> "ASSEMBLED". There's a _world_ of difference (pun intended). A plane
> can be _assembled_ in country U, even if every last part comes from
> other countries. That would apparently satisfy this labeling law!!!
> Yes it's xenophobic and intended to support company B, but the wording
> was carefully chosen for the desired effect.
So, would you more impressed by a German Airbus or a French one ?
That's where the 2 major assembly plants are.
Graham
> The problem with ALL the comments on this subject is that the original
> story was sloppy reporting.
> I think you will find that the rule does NOT say "BUILT", it says
> "ASSEMBLED". There's a _world_ of difference (pun intended). A plane
> can be _assembled_ in country U, even if every last part comes from
> other countries. That would apparently satisfy this labeling law!!!
> Yes it's xenophobic and intended to support company B, but the wording
> was carefully chosen for the desired effect.
So, would you more impressed by a German Airbus or a French one ?
That's where the 2 major assembly plants are.
Graham
Jun 23rd 2005, 5:02 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Ron Natalie wrote:
> SP Cook wrote:
> > Umm, if the emergency exit card says "Boeing" or "M-D" its US made, if
> > it says "Airbus" it isn't.
> What about Embraer or Saab or Canadair or ...
In my Saab, the emergency exit is the driver's door. ;-)
Graham
> SP Cook wrote:
> > Umm, if the emergency exit card says "Boeing" or "M-D" its US made, if
> > it says "Airbus" it isn't.
> What about Embraer or Saab or Canadair or ...
In my Saab, the emergency exit is the driver's door. ;-)
Graham
Jun 23rd 2005, 5:51 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
"Pooh Bear" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Boeing's screwed anyway. Their best seller is the 737. Not bad
considering
> how good Airbus's A320 family ( 318 / 319 / 320 / 321 ) is in
comparison !
> And I'm just so betting Toulouse is about to start making plastic
versions
> of these too !
Southwest Airlines is pushing Boeing for a 737 replacement with "787
technology". Southwest flies 429 B7337s, so Boeing surely has to
listen to them. I would be shocked if B. doesn't have a team doing
advanced planning for such a plane. The big expenditures will have to
wait until the peak spending on the 787 passes.
The A320 family is becoming long-in-the-tooth. An undamaged one has
now been sold for scrap / recovery of reuseable pieces.
news:[email protected]...
> Boeing's screwed anyway. Their best seller is the 737. Not bad
considering
> how good Airbus's A320 family ( 318 / 319 / 320 / 321 ) is in
comparison !
> And I'm just so betting Toulouse is about to start making plastic
versions
> of these too !
Southwest Airlines is pushing Boeing for a 737 replacement with "787
technology". Southwest flies 429 B7337s, so Boeing surely has to
listen to them. I would be shocked if B. doesn't have a team doing
advanced planning for such a plane. The big expenditures will have to
wait until the peak spending on the 787 passes.
The A320 family is becoming long-in-the-tooth. An undamaged one has
now been sold for scrap / recovery of reuseable pieces.
Jun 23rd 2005, 7:12 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
And what is supposed to be printed on the pants of the pilots????
Jun 23rd 2005, 7:18 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
>And what is supposed to be printed on the pants of the pilots????
"Certified Non-Terrorist Non-Drunk Non-Nutcase 2005 by
Fatherland^H^H^H^H^HHomeland Security".
Gordon L. Burditt
"Certified Non-Terrorist Non-Drunk Non-Nutcase 2005 by
Fatherland^H^H^H^H^HHomeland Security".
Gordon L. Burditt
Jun 23rd 2005, 7:34 am
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Looks like the airlines have already complied. I have an American
Airlines Airbus A300 emergency card from a flight last month and it
says "Final Assembly of this aircraft was in France" in _tiny_ print
in the middle page. They're not exactly advertising it.
xz <[email protected]> wrote:
>BLOOMBERG NEWS
>Wednesday, June 22, 2005
>U.S. airlines must tell passengers where planes were built, under a
>rule that becomes final today and was prompted by a U.S. lawmaker's
>concern that so many aircraft are being manufactured outside the
>country.
>Carriers, including American Airlines and United Airlines, must place
>the information on the plastic cards in airplane seat backs that
>describe emergency exits.
>The rule is the result of a provision that Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., who
>is chairman of the House aviation subcommittee, added to legislation
>enacted in December 2003.
>"All of the airlines are probably already in compliance," Federal
>Aviation Administration spokesman Les Dorr said yesterday in
>Washington. The agency estimated it would cost carriers $522,000 to
>print stickers with the location where planes were "finally assembled"
>and place them on the placards in 6,559 aircraft.
>Airbus has won more orders than The Boeing Co. in five of the past six
>years and delivered more planes the past two years. U.S. airlines also
>use planes made by Montreal-based Bombardier Inc. and Empresa
>Brasileira de Aeronautica SA, which has its headquarters in Sao Jose
>dos Campos, Brazil.
>The requirement is "irrelevant" because aircraft manufacturing is a
>global industry and planes contain parts from countries around the
>world, said Mary Anne Greczyn, a U.S. spokeswoman for Airbus.
>The company's planes are "finally assembled" in France or Germany, she
>said.
Airlines Airbus A300 emergency card from a flight last month and it
says "Final Assembly of this aircraft was in France" in _tiny_ print
in the middle page. They're not exactly advertising it.
xz <[email protected]> wrote:
>BLOOMBERG NEWS
>Wednesday, June 22, 2005
>U.S. airlines must tell passengers where planes were built, under a
>rule that becomes final today and was prompted by a U.S. lawmaker's
>concern that so many aircraft are being manufactured outside the
>country.
>Carriers, including American Airlines and United Airlines, must place
>the information on the plastic cards in airplane seat backs that
>describe emergency exits.
>The rule is the result of a provision that Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., who
>is chairman of the House aviation subcommittee, added to legislation
>enacted in December 2003.
>"All of the airlines are probably already in compliance," Federal
>Aviation Administration spokesman Les Dorr said yesterday in
>Washington. The agency estimated it would cost carriers $522,000 to
>print stickers with the location where planes were "finally assembled"
>and place them on the placards in 6,559 aircraft.
>Airbus has won more orders than The Boeing Co. in five of the past six
>years and delivered more planes the past two years. U.S. airlines also
>use planes made by Montreal-based Bombardier Inc. and Empresa
>Brasileira de Aeronautica SA, which has its headquarters in Sao Jose
>dos Campos, Brazil.
>The requirement is "irrelevant" because aircraft manufacturing is a
>global industry and planes contain parts from countries around the
>world, said Mary Anne Greczyn, a U.S. spokeswoman for Airbus.
>The company's planes are "finally assembled" in France or Germany, she
>said.
Jun 23rd 2005, 7:35 am
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Starshiy Nemo <[email protected]> wrote:
>And what is supposed to be printed on the pants of the pilots????
"In case of emergency wipe here"
>And what is supposed to be printed on the pants of the pilots????
"In case of emergency wipe here"
Jun 23rd 2005, 7:39 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
> The rule is the result of a provision that Rep. John Mica, R-Fla., who
> is chairman of the House aviation subcommittee, added to legislation
> enacted in December 2003.
So we're back to legislating racism - how lovely. I was hoping his kind had
died off by now; it looks like we still have a looong way to go.
> is chairman of the House aviation subcommittee, added to legislation
> enacted in December 2003.
So we're back to legislating racism - how lovely. I was hoping his kind had
died off by now; it looks like we still have a looong way to go.
Jun 23rd 2005, 7:40 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Robert J Carpenter <[email protected]> wrote:
>The problem with ALL the comments on this subject is that the original
>story was sloppy reporting.
>I think you will find that the rule does NOT say "BUILT", it says
>"ASSEMBLED". There's a _world_ of difference (pun intended). A plane
>can be _assembled_ in country U, even if every last part comes from
>other countries. That would apparently satisfy this labeling law!!!
>Yes it's xenophobic and intended to support company B, but the wording
>was carefully chosen for the desired effect.
I think you're seeing a conspiracy where there is none.
Even if it said built instead of assembled, most people would know
that "this aircraft was built in the U.S." does NOT mean "every single
part of this aircraft was built in the U.S."
Since airliners have millions of parts, most people also know that if
they were going to publish where every single part was made, they'd
have to include a book bigger than the NYC phonebook in each seat
pocket of the plane.
>The problem with ALL the comments on this subject is that the original
>story was sloppy reporting.
>I think you will find that the rule does NOT say "BUILT", it says
>"ASSEMBLED". There's a _world_ of difference (pun intended). A plane
>can be _assembled_ in country U, even if every last part comes from
>other countries. That would apparently satisfy this labeling law!!!
>Yes it's xenophobic and intended to support company B, but the wording
>was carefully chosen for the desired effect.
I think you're seeing a conspiracy where there is none.
Even if it said built instead of assembled, most people would know
that "this aircraft was built in the U.S." does NOT mean "every single
part of this aircraft was built in the U.S."
Since airliners have millions of parts, most people also know that if
they were going to publish where every single part was made, they'd
have to include a book bigger than the NYC phonebook in each seat
pocket of the plane.
Jun 23rd 2005, 8:24 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Thanks, LOL!!!
Jun 23rd 2005, 8:59 am
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
"Pooh Bear" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>> xz wrote:
>> > Carriers, including American Airlines and United Airlines, must place
>> > the information on the plastic cards in airplane seat backs that
>> > describe emergency exits.
>> Goes with the thing on the car stickers that told me that my Chevy
>> truck is a NAFTA special assembled in Mexico (as well as having the
>> final assembly pick sheet that's written in Spanish).
> Yeah and some Mercs ( the SUVs ) are made in the USA.
> GM in it's wisdom ( I use the term advisedly ! ) apparently want to make
> Saabs in Opel's plant in Germany and some Opels in Saab's Swedish plant -
> along with the new 'European' Cadillac that will likely bomb.
> And these ppl at the top even get paid huge sums of money for making such
> idiotic decisions !
> Whilst at it - since you apparently drive a GM Chevy - just go and see
> http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/
> Yes - GM decided to rebrand Chevy - the muscle car brand - as it's new
> worldwide model series that comes from Korea. Previously known as Daewoo.
They sell this one in the U.S. as the Chevrolet Aveo. Yes, it is a P-O-S;
yes, it is a Daewoo. BUT, most cars today are multi-national. Hondas are
made in the U.S., the U.K, and elsewhere outside of Japan; Volkswagen serves
North America (the U.S. and Canada) from a factory in Mexico, and the U.S.
Saturn is essentially an Opel (the L-series is an Opel/Vauxhall Vectra under
the skin, and the Pontiac GTO is a Holden Manaro.
And I can assure you that people considering a Chevrolet Matiz in the UK or
an Aveo in the US are not the same people who would be looking at a
Chevrolet Corvette, which remains a performance car.
> If I were you I'd cry.
> Graham
>
news:[email protected]...
> Ron Natalie wrote:
>> xz wrote:
>> > Carriers, including American Airlines and United Airlines, must place
>> > the information on the plastic cards in airplane seat backs that
>> > describe emergency exits.
>> Goes with the thing on the car stickers that told me that my Chevy
>> truck is a NAFTA special assembled in Mexico (as well as having the
>> final assembly pick sheet that's written in Spanish).
> Yeah and some Mercs ( the SUVs ) are made in the USA.
> GM in it's wisdom ( I use the term advisedly ! ) apparently want to make
> Saabs in Opel's plant in Germany and some Opels in Saab's Swedish plant -
> along with the new 'European' Cadillac that will likely bomb.
> And these ppl at the top even get paid huge sums of money for making such
> idiotic decisions !
> Whilst at it - since you apparently drive a GM Chevy - just go and see
> http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/
> Yes - GM decided to rebrand Chevy - the muscle car brand - as it's new
> worldwide model series that comes from Korea. Previously known as Daewoo.
They sell this one in the U.S. as the Chevrolet Aveo. Yes, it is a P-O-S;
yes, it is a Daewoo. BUT, most cars today are multi-national. Hondas are
made in the U.S., the U.K, and elsewhere outside of Japan; Volkswagen serves
North America (the U.S. and Canada) from a factory in Mexico, and the U.S.
Saturn is essentially an Opel (the L-series is an Opel/Vauxhall Vectra under
the skin, and the Pontiac GTO is a Holden Manaro.
And I can assure you that people considering a Chevrolet Matiz in the UK or
an Aveo in the US are not the same people who would be looking at a
Chevrolet Corvette, which remains a performance car.
> If I were you I'd cry.
> Graham
>
Jun 23rd 2005, 9:53 am
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Jeff Hacker wrote:
> "Pooh Bear" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Ron Natalie wrote:
> >
> >> xz wrote:
> >>
> >> > Carriers, including American Airlines and United Airlines, must place
> >> > the information on the plastic cards in airplane seat backs that
> >> > describe emergency exits.
> >>
> >> Goes with the thing on the car stickers that told me that my Chevy
> >> truck is a NAFTA special assembled in Mexico (as well as having the
> >> final assembly pick sheet that's written in Spanish).
> >
> > Yeah and some Mercs ( the SUVs ) are made in the USA.
> >
> > GM in it's wisdom ( I use the term advisedly ! ) apparently want to make
> > Saabs in Opel's plant in Germany and some Opels in Saab's Swedish plant -
> > along with the new 'European' Cadillac that will likely bomb.
> >
> > And these ppl at the top even get paid huge sums of money for making such
> > idiotic decisions !
> >
> > Whilst at it - since you apparently drive a GM Chevy - just go and see
> > http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/
> >
> > Yes - GM decided to rebrand Chevy - the muscle car brand - as it's new
> > worldwide model series that comes from Korea. Previously known as Daewoo.
> They sell this one in the U.S. as the Chevrolet Aveo. Yes, it is a P-O-S;
> yes, it is a Daewoo. BUT, most cars today are multi-national. Hondas are
> made in the U.S., the U.K, and elsewhere outside of Japan; Volkswagen serves
> North America (the U.S. and Canada) from a factory in Mexico, and the U.S.
> Saturn is essentially an Opel (the L-series is an Opel/Vauxhall Vectra under
> the skin, and the Pontiac GTO is a Holden Manaro.
> And I can assure you that people considering a Chevrolet Matiz in the UK or
> an Aveo in the US are not the same people who would be looking at a
> Chevrolet Corvette, which remains a performance car.
That much at least is nice to know and actually I have a friend with a Corvette
( lhd ) here in the UK.
Graham
> "Pooh Bear" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Ron Natalie wrote:
> >
> >> xz wrote:
> >>
> >> > Carriers, including American Airlines and United Airlines, must place
> >> > the information on the plastic cards in airplane seat backs that
> >> > describe emergency exits.
> >>
> >> Goes with the thing on the car stickers that told me that my Chevy
> >> truck is a NAFTA special assembled in Mexico (as well as having the
> >> final assembly pick sheet that's written in Spanish).
> >
> > Yeah and some Mercs ( the SUVs ) are made in the USA.
> >
> > GM in it's wisdom ( I use the term advisedly ! ) apparently want to make
> > Saabs in Opel's plant in Germany and some Opels in Saab's Swedish plant -
> > along with the new 'European' Cadillac that will likely bomb.
> >
> > And these ppl at the top even get paid huge sums of money for making such
> > idiotic decisions !
> >
> > Whilst at it - since you apparently drive a GM Chevy - just go and see
> > http://www.chevrolet.co.uk/
> >
> > Yes - GM decided to rebrand Chevy - the muscle car brand - as it's new
> > worldwide model series that comes from Korea. Previously known as Daewoo.
> They sell this one in the U.S. as the Chevrolet Aveo. Yes, it is a P-O-S;
> yes, it is a Daewoo. BUT, most cars today are multi-national. Hondas are
> made in the U.S., the U.K, and elsewhere outside of Japan; Volkswagen serves
> North America (the U.S. and Canada) from a factory in Mexico, and the U.S.
> Saturn is essentially an Opel (the L-series is an Opel/Vauxhall Vectra under
> the skin, and the Pontiac GTO is a Holden Manaro.
> And I can assure you that people considering a Chevrolet Matiz in the UK or
> an Aveo in the US are not the same people who would be looking at a
> Chevrolet Corvette, which remains a performance car.
That much at least is nice to know and actually I have a friend with a Corvette
( lhd ) here in the UK.
Graham
Jun 23rd 2005, 9:54 am
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Starshiy Nemo wrote:
> And what is supposed to be printed on the pants of the pilots????
Made in China I expect.
Graham
> And what is supposed to be printed on the pants of the pilots????
Made in China I expect.
Graham
Jun 23rd 2005, 10:03 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 17:48:55 +0100, Pooh Bear
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Dave Proctor wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:19:04 +0100, Pooh Bear
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Sounds xenophobic to me.
>> Please explain.
>> (Australian joke here, Aussies will get it).
>This an Oz - Brit thing ? I know you antipodeans like to make us feel
>inferior but I'm not sure here. Meaning I didn't get it and pls explain
>!
It's an Oz only thing. It's actually pronounced "ploiz eggsploin".
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>Dave Proctor wrote:
>> On Thu, 23 Jun 2005 06:19:04 +0100, Pooh Bear
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >Sounds xenophobic to me.
>> Please explain.
>> (Australian joke here, Aussies will get it).
>This an Oz - Brit thing ? I know you antipodeans like to make us feel
>inferior but I'm not sure here. Meaning I didn't get it and pls explain
>!
It's an Oz only thing. It's actually pronounced "ploiz eggsploin".
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Jun 23rd 2005, 10:07 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: U.S. airlines must now reveal where aircraft were built
Robert J Carpenter wrote:
> "Pooh Bear" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Boeing's screwed anyway. Their best seller is the 737. Not bad
> considering
> > how good Airbus's A320 family ( 318 / 319 / 320 / 321 ) is in
> comparison !
> > And I'm just so betting Toulouse is about to start making plastic
> versions
> > of these too !
> Southwest Airlines is pushing Boeing for a 737 replacement with "787
> technology".
So..... you read it here first ! ;-)
> Southwest flies 429 B7337s, so Boeing surely has to
> listen to them. I would be shocked if B. doesn't have a team doing
> advanced planning for such a plane. The big expenditures will have to
> wait until the peak spending on the 787 passes.
> The A320 family is becoming long-in-the-tooth. An undamaged one has
> now been sold for scrap / recovery of reuseable pieces.
Hardly surprising, they're workhorses. There's still an order book for
them ! Like the 737. Most likely the AF one I flew on CDG - LHR ! I don't
know what AF does with them but that was a bus OK !
Btw, perfectly serviceable Saab 9000s here are sold for scrap value now
since the parts are worth so much !
A sad end to a lovely prestige car.
Graham
> "Pooh Bear" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > Boeing's screwed anyway. Their best seller is the 737. Not bad
> considering
> > how good Airbus's A320 family ( 318 / 319 / 320 / 321 ) is in
> comparison !
> > And I'm just so betting Toulouse is about to start making plastic
> versions
> > of these too !
> Southwest Airlines is pushing Boeing for a 737 replacement with "787
> technology".
So..... you read it here first ! ;-)
> Southwest flies 429 B7337s, so Boeing surely has to
> listen to them. I would be shocked if B. doesn't have a team doing
> advanced planning for such a plane. The big expenditures will have to
> wait until the peak spending on the 787 passes.
> The A320 family is becoming long-in-the-tooth. An undamaged one has
> now been sold for scrap / recovery of reuseable pieces.
Hardly surprising, they're workhorses. There's still an order book for
them ! Like the 737. Most likely the AF one I flew on CDG - LHR ! I don't
know what AF does with them but that was a bus OK !
Btw, perfectly serviceable Saab 9000s here are sold for scrap value now
since the parts are worth so much !
A sad end to a lovely prestige car.
Graham
