Mxsmanic

Hatunen writes:

    > As I've pointed out elsewhere, the refractive index varies by
    > density; you can see water vapor where there are differences in
    > density.

The refractive index changes by only a few parts per milllion over the
entire humidity range encountered in the real world.

    > There is alwasysomething tocompare it with. Such as? Another
    > chunk of atmosphere isolated by a glass partition?

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Mxsmanic

Hatunen writes:

    > Wrong.

Well, that's certainly persuasive.

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Mxsmanic

Hatunen writes:

    > I'm sure you have some data to back up that technical claim.

What figures do you have? I recall a change of about 0.000001 or less
for a 90% swing in RH (vacuum = 1.0), depending on the equations you
use.

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Mxsmanic

Deep Frayed Morgues writes:

    > Wouldn't that mean that it is NOT invisible?

It's invisible to human eyes and visual imaging devices.

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Mxsmanic

[email protected] writes:

    > never seen a mirage?

A mirage involves larger changes and larger gradients.

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Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn

Jeremy <[email protected]> wrote:

    > [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of besses o'
    > th' barn) wrote in message
    > news:<1gm18tj.2ho02p1bmv7k7N%this_address_is_for_s [email protected]>...
    > > Miguel Cruz <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > > Ellie C writes:
    > > > >> Humidity changes everything. Edges become blurrier, aerial
    > > > >> perspetive has more effect the higher the humidity.
    > > > >
    > > > > Water vapor is invisible.
    > > >
    > > > What were those white puffy things I saw in the sky today?
    > >
    > > Mxsmanic is, in fact, correct.
    > >
    > > David
    >
    > Correct in the narrow sense that what he said is, in isolation, true.

No. He's correct in the sense that he is, well, correct.

David

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Jeremy Henderson

On 2004-10-23 10:22:07 +0200, [email protected]
(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) said:

    > Jeremy <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > No. He's correct in the sense that he is, well, correct.

But irrelevant, since the OP didn't mention water vapour.

J;

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nitram

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 10:42:48 +0200, Jeremy Henderson <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 2004-10-23 10:22:07 +0200, [email protected]
    >(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) said:
    >> Jeremy <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> No. He's correct in the sense that he is, well, correct.
    >But irrelevant, since the OP didn't mention water vapour.

Steam is water vapour

This is where I came in, I'll fetch my coat.
--
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Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn

Jeremy Henderson <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On 2004-10-23 10:22:07 +0200, [email protected]
    > (chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn) said:
    >
    > > Jeremy <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > No. He's correct in the sense that he is, well, correct.
    >
    > But irrelevant, since the OP didn't mention water vapour.

Yes, the OP did. Think about it.

David

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Chancellor Of The Duchy Of Besses O' Th' Barn

Ellie C <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Mxsmanic wrote:
[]
    > > Water vapor is invisible.
    > >
    > THen I must be having hallucinations when the hills disappear because of
    > little droplets of water. I wonder why people buy fog lights. I wonder
    > what that stuff is that makes it hard to see through my windshield on
    > rainy days. Why do weather reports talk of visibility?
    >
    > What are you drinking?

Instead of adopting this kind of posture, do yourself a favour and look
up what water vapour actually is. It's already been succinctly explained
by other posters, but you seem to want to ignore that.

David

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Ellie C

[email protected] wrote:
    > On Fri, 22 Oct 2004 09:56:17 +0200, Ellie C <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    >
    >>Mxsmanic wrote:
    >>>Ellie C writes:
    >>>>Maybe not if your taking photos, but it sure makes a difference
    >>>>when you're looking at the sunset.
    >>>What difference is that?
    >>>>Humidity changes everything. Edges become blurrier, aerial
    >>>>perspetive has more effect the higher the humidity.
    >>>Water vapor is invisible.
    >>THen I must be having hallucinations when the hills disappear because of
    >>little droplets of water. I wonder why people buy fog lights. I wonder
    >>what that stuff is that makes it hard to see through my windshield on
    >>rainy days. Why do weather reports talk of visibility?
    >>What are you drinking?
    >
    >
    > I'm suffering from a bit of elementary scientific education about 50
    > years ago.
    >
    > Most things have three states solid, liquid and gas
    >
    > For H2O
    >
    > solid = ice
    > liquid =water
    > gaseous = steam.
If you had also payed attention in language classes you might have
learned that words and phrases often have formal and informal meanings,
and you'd know how to recognize the proper meaning by context. Or maybe
not...

nitram

On Sat, 23 Oct 2004 17:52:58 +0200, Ellie C <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >> For H2O
    >>
    >> solid = ice
    >> liquid =water
    >> gaseous = steam.
    >If you had also payed attention in language classes you might have
    >learned that words and phrases often have formal and informal meanings,
    >and you'd know how to recognize the proper meaning by context. Or maybe
    >not...

There is only one proper meaning.
--
Martin

Ellie C

Mxsmanic wrote:
    > Ellie C writes:
    >
    >
    >>You may call it "freshly formed condensate" but for most people, "water
    >>vapor" refers to visible droplets of water in the air.
    >
    >
    > However ignorant most people may be of basic science, that does not
    > alter reality.
    >
    >
    >>And that's what we were talking about - the humidity that changes
    >>how things look.
    >
    >
    > Humidity does not change how things look.
    >
You need to have your eyes examined, or you have to learn to look with
your eyes instead of your preconceptions. Painting in the desert is very
different from painting in the humid southeast of the US - humidity
makes colors in the distance become less saturated and bluer, makes
edges less distinct. These effects happen in the desert but only minimally.

Ellie C

Mxsmanic wrote:

    > Ellie C writes:
    >
    >
    >>If water vapor is invisible, how come we all get this mental picture of
    >>what it looks like?
    >
    >
    > Do we?
    >
    >
    >>Mist, fog, steam - all those things are invisible?
    >
    >
    > None of these is water vapor (except dry steam, and it _is_ invisible).
    >
blah, blah, blah...

Ellie C

Mxsmanic wrote:
    > Ellie C writes:
    >
    >
    >>... I see the sun rising over the hill where Rennes le Chateau is.
    >
    >
    > Doesn't the hill catch fire?
    >
Every morning. And again at sunset.