P@L

Can anyone tell me the distance between the bus station at St.
Petersburg to the main Railway station for taking a train to Moscow.
Are these close to each other? The bus station I refer to here is the
one which would be the last stop for Helsinki-St.petersburg route.

Also, what is the cheapest fare by train to Moscow from St.Petersburg?


Thanks for any suggestions.

Timo Valtonen

"p@l" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Can anyone tell me the distance between the bus station at St.
    > Petersburg to the main Railway station for taking a train to Moscow.
    > Are these close to each other? The bus station I refer to here is the
    > one which would be the last stop for Helsinki-St.petersburg route.

Several bus companies operate scheduled services from Helsinki to St
Petersburg, only some use the central bus station, which, any way, is
inconvenient to use in this case as it is some 5 km past Moskovski station
coming from Helsinki.

Most of the trains from St Petersburg to Moscow leave from Moskovski
station. Most of the scheduled busses stop either at Hotel Europe
(Yevropeiskaya) or at Hotel Moscow (Moskva) at different ends of Nevski
Prospekt, the main street. The distance from these hotels to Moskovski
station is less than 2 km. If you read Russian it's easy to take the metro
from these hotels to Moskovski station, or you could take a taxi. Be sure to
negotiate the fare first, the Volvo's at Hotel Europe are the most
expensive.

    > Also, what is the cheapest fare by train to Moscow from St.Petersburg?

If you are planning to buy the ticket upon departure on the spot in St.
Peterburg and don't speak Russian forget the whole idea of using combined
bus/train transportation from Helsinki to Moscow. You'll end up paying more
for the whole transport and other costs than the 83 euro second class
sleeper ticket Helsinki - Moscow you can buy at the railway station in
Helsinki (some visa agencies and travel agencies sell the same for 10-15%
less).

tv

P@L

Thanks. Few more questions.

    >
    > > Also, what is the cheapest fare by train to Moscow from St.Petersburg?
    >
    > If you are planning to buy the ticket upon departure on the spot in St.
    > Peterburg and don't speak Russian forget the whole idea of using combined
    > bus/train transportation from Helsinki to Moscow. You'll end up paying more
    > for the whole transport and other costs than the 83 euro second class
    > sleeper ticket Helsinki - Moscow you can buy at the railway station in
    > Helsinki (some visa agencies and travel agencies sell the same for 10-15%
    > less).

I cannot speak Russian. But I have seen some cheap fares on this site.

http://nordictravel.ru/page/trains2.html

So, can't I get the tickets straight away at the Railway Ticket
Counter? How does the language matter? aren't the fares constant?

Casey

    > > If you are planning to buy the ticket upon departure on the spot in St.
    > > Peterburg and don't speak Russian forget the whole idea of using
combined
    > > bus/train transportation from Helsinki to Moscow. You'll end up paying
more
    > > for the whole transport and other costs than the 83 euro second class
    > > sleeper ticket Helsinki - Moscow you can buy at the railway station in
    > > Helsinki (some visa agencies and travel agencies sell the same for
10-15%
    > > less).
    > I cannot speak Russian.
    > So, can't I get the tickets straight away at the Railway Ticket
    > Counter? How does the language matter? aren't the fares constant?

Timo is quite right. You will not understand this until you are in Russia.
In Russia, you can either go to one of the booths for Russians, where
the clerk will either ignore you or charge you a premium for your lack
of Russian, or you will go to the booth for foreigners where you will
pay a large premium. Russia is not like Europe. As Timo wrote, buy
your tickets in Helsinki. They speak perfect English in Helsinki and
you won't be robbed at the ticket counter.


Casey

Helmut Uttenthaler

"p@l" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
    > Thanks. Few more questions.
    > >
    > > > Also, what is the cheapest fare by train to Moscow from St.Petersburg?
    > >
    > > If you are planning to buy the ticket upon departure on the spot in St.
    > > Peterburg and don't speak Russian forget the whole idea of using
combined
    > > bus/train transportation from Helsinki to Moscow. You'll end up paying
more
    > > for the whole transport and other costs than the 83 euro second class
    > > sleeper ticket Helsinki - Moscow you can buy at the railway station in
    > > Helsinki (some visa agencies and travel agencies sell the same for
10-15%
    > > less).
    > I cannot speak Russian. But I have seen some cheap fares on this site.
    > http://nordictravel.ru/page/trains2.html


Why don't you buy your tickets at
http://nordictravel.ru/page/traintickets.html?

    > So, can't I get the tickets straight away at the Railway Ticket
    > Counter? How does the language matter? aren't the fares constant?


However, I managed to buy tickets Moskva - SPb in 2001. I bought them at the
Intourist-office at Moskva Oktabr'skaja station, where english was spoken. I
had to pay a commission fee of RUB 100 (~ EUR/USD 3), the ticket itself
costed RUB 750 (2nd class in train No. 2 ,"Krasnaja Strela").


--
Regards,

Helmut Uttenthaler
Graz - Austria

P@L

Thanks guys for all your info.I guess these should be good enough.

I dont know much about Nordic travels. Got that link from the web. I
realise that Helsinki Railway station offers tickets from St.PB to
Moscow in selected trains. The cost is approx. 36 euros during day
time. I can get some concession on the bus ticket to St.PB. So, I
guess this is not a bad deal. However, the ticket fare(of 2001) of
Helmut sounds cheaper. It is a matter of taking chances as thinks
might be different now.If there are any updates, please let me know.



"Helmut Uttenthaler" wrote in message news:...
    > "p@l" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Thanks. Few more questions.
    > >
    > > >
    > > > > Also, what is the cheapest fare by train to Moscow from St.Petersburg?
    > > >
    > > > If you are planning to buy the ticket upon departure on the spot in St.
    > > > Peterburg and don't speak Russian forget the whole idea of using
    > combined
    > > > bus/train transportation from Helsinki to Moscow. You'll end up paying
    > more
    > > > for the whole transport and other costs than the 83 euro second class
    > > > sleeper ticket Helsinki - Moscow you can buy at the railway station in
    > > > Helsinki (some visa agencies and travel agencies sell the same for
    > 10-15%
    > > > less).
    > >
    > > I cannot speak Russian. But I have seen some cheap fares on this site.
    > >
    > > http://nordictravel.ru/page/trains2.html
    >
    >
    > Why don't you buy your tickets at
    > http://nordictravel.ru/page/traintickets.html?
    >
    > >
    > > So, can't I get the tickets straight away at the Railway Ticket
    > > Counter? How does the language matter? aren't the fares constant?
    >
    >
    > However, I managed to buy tickets Moskva - SPb in 2001. I bought them at the
    > Intourist-office at Moskva Oktabr'skaja station, where english was spoken. I
    > had to pay a commission fee of RUB 100 (~ EUR/USD 3), the ticket itself
    > costed RUB 750 (2nd class in train No. 2 ,"Krasnaja Strela").

Timo Valtonen

"Casey" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > I cannot speak Russian.
    > > So, can't I get the tickets straight away at the Railway Ticket
    > > Counter? How does the language matter? aren't the fares constant?
    > Timo is quite right. You will not understand this until you are in
Russia.
    > In Russia, you can either go to one of the booths for Russians, where
    > the clerk will either ignore you or charge you a premium for your lack
    > of Russian, or you will go to the booth for foreigners where you will
    > pay a large premium.

There is a long history with the difficulties for foreigners to buy train
tickets in Russia and old habits die slow. Still some years ago the Russian
railroads had different fares for foreigners and only certain trains were
allowed for foreigners. This system comes from the idea that **************
blood-sucking capitalists have to pay at least the double for everything,
because the Soviet state "subsidises" everything for its own citizens.
Hotels, museums, etc. etc. followed this practice and it is still followed
by a number of enterprises, for example the Hermitage Museum and Marinski
Thetre in St Petersburg has a different much more expensive set of tariffs
for foreigners than the corresponding for own citizens. The (presently
called) third class fares were not allowed for foreigners except in rare
exceptions arranged by the organisation hosting the foreigner in question.

Now some of the trains are subleased to other companies, which creates the
present havock with all different types of fares. The laws of capitalism
work very well, all ticket vendors want to get the maximum and on the
Moscow - St. Petersburg run this is more than easy.

You can try to get the cheapest fares from agencies selling on the net, but
be sure you also get a reservation. Don't by just a ticket without
reservations marked on the ticket, you'll have a hard time trying to get the
reservations when you are about to travel. You can try your luck just
walking in to the station, but remember that the cheapest tickets are always
sold first. You'll get to Moscow, but might have to pay dearly for a nice
private compartment with drinks and other services you havn't thought of
getting.

Beware: the last week of May and the first week of June are going to be
crazy. Pulkovo airport is closed for all flights except for the heads of
states coming to the festivities. October Railways - the state company in NE
Russia - has announced that their will be extra trains during this time.
With all the national and international air traffic rerouted to St.
Petersburg - Moscow rail services things are bound to be difficult.

After the festivities things will turn back to normal. The new Ladozhki
station taking care of the trains to Helsinki among others is working,
extensive renovations of stations and tracks are in full use, etc. etc. and
Pulkovo air traffic is back to normal. Things are getting better on the
whole.

tv

Casey

    > The new Ladozhki station taking care of the trains to Helsinki
    > among others is working,

Do you know what metro station is at the Ladozhki station?


Casey

Timo Valtonen

"Casey" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > The new Ladozhki station taking care of the trains to Helsinki
    > > among others is working,
    > Do you know what metro station is at the Ladozhki station?

Ladozhkaya

Timo Valtonen

"Timo Valtonen" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Casey" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > > The new Ladozhki station taking care of the trains to Helsinki
    > > > among others is working,
    > >
    > > Do you know what metro station is at the Ladozhki station?
    > >
    > Ladozhkaya
Whoops, clicked the send button too quickly.

The stations is going to be opened on May 29th. The Russian "Repin" starts
using it on the same day, Finnish "Sibelius" on a later date not yet
announced.
The Moscow - Helsinki "Tolstoi" will also use this station.

tv

Casey

    > > Do you know what metro station is at the Ladozhki station?
    > Ladozhkaya

Oh that's interesting. I assumed that the railway station was new
and that a new metro station would be built for it. Ladozhskaya
(note the correct spelling) is an existing metro station, and they
named the railway station after it. Most of the time the name of
the metro station are not the same: Pushkinskaya metro & Vitebski
railway, Ploshchad Vosstania metro & Moskovski railway, and
Ploshchad Lenina metro & Finlyandski railway. I wonder why they
built the new railway station further to the southeast, further away
from Helsinki?


Casey

Timo Valtonen

"Casey" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Oh that's interesting. I assumed that the railway station was new
    > and that a new metro station would be built for it. Ladozhskaya
    > (note the correct spelling) is an existing metro station, and they
    > named the railway station after it. Most of the time the name of
    > the metro station are not the same: Pushkinskaya metro & Vitebski
    > railway, Ploshchad Vosstania metro & Moskovski railway, and
    > Ploshchad Lenina metro & Finlyandski railway. I wonder why they
    > built the new railway station further to the southeast, further away
    > from Helsinki?

There are several valid reasons. First of all Finlyandski station has been
the only "main" station on the northern side of the Neva River that divides
St Petersburg in two halfs. The city is growing fast on this side towards
the Karelian Isthmus so the capacity of Finlyandski station has already been
met. Already now it has troubles in handling all of the designated commuter
and long distance traffic.

Second reason is that St Petersburg lacks throughgoing stations for transit
traffic. For example, the Helsinki - Moscow stations have so far stopped at
Rutschi, actually only a platform with a shack with no services. Therefore,
passengers going for example from Vyborg to Novgorod have had to use a train
to reach Finlyandski, take a metro to Moskovski and continue then by train.
By 2008 both Helsinki trains, Repin and Sibelius, should be high-speed
services using only 3 hours instead of the present 5,5 hours with connection
to Moscow at Ladozhski for trains using only 4 hours to Moscow. That would
reduce travel time between Helsinki to Moscow from the present 13 hours to
mere 7 hours. (A different thing, of course, is whether it's nicer to take a
overnight sleeper service than a daytime service including a change of
train.)

Ladozhski is on the only rail line crossing the Neva River not very far from
the Finlyandski bridge. It is futher away from the centre compared with
Finlyandski station, but the connections to the centre are quite good, only
two metro stops to Hotel Moskva or 3-4 stops (including one change) to the
metro stations on Nevski prospekt. Driving during rush hours is not so
charming, though.

For sentimental reasons the change from Finlyandski to Ladozhski is
difficult. VR - the Finnish railways - used to run the Finlyandski station
and all rail services from it up to the red revolution, hence the name
Finlyandski.

--

Thanks for spelling correction.
The names of the metro and railway stations are actually the same, the
adjective forms of the noun Ladoga (Lake Ladoga as the place is on the side
of the lake looking from the centre). In the Russian language metro stations
are called "stantsiya" (fem.) and railway stations "vokzal" (masc.),
therefore the ending of the adjective is different if it means the metro or
railway station.

tv

Helmut Uttenthaler

"Timo Valtonen" schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
    > There is a long history with the difficulties for foreigners to buy train
    > tickets in Russia and old habits die slow. Still some years ago the
Russian
    > railroads had different fares for foreigners and only certain trains were
    > allowed for foreigners. This system comes from the idea that **************
    > blood-sucking capitalists have to pay at least the double for everything,
    > because the Soviet state "subsidises" everything for its own citizens.
    > Hotels, museums, etc. etc. followed this practice and it is still followed
    > by a number of enterprises, for example the Hermitage Museum


In 2001 entry was free for students (even for foreigners), alltough I only
had an Austrian student card (no ISIC).
However, at Zarskoje Selo the entry for foreigners was 6 times higher than
for Russian citizens - but a Russian friend has bought a cheaper "Russian"
ticket for me ;-)


    > and Marinski
    > Thetre in St Petersburg has a different much more expensive set of tariffs
    > for foreigners than the corresponding for own citizens. The (presently
    > called) third class fares were not allowed for foreigners except in rare
    > exceptions arranged by the organisation hosting the foreigner in question.
    > Now some of the trains are subleased to other companies,


Which trains do you mean?



--
Regards,

Helmut Uttenthaler
Graz - Austria

Ulf Kutzner

Timo Valtonen schrieb:
    >
    > "Casey" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Oh that's interesting. I assumed that the railway station was new
    > > and that a new metro station would be built for it. Ladozhskaya
    > > (note the correct spelling) is an existing metro station, and they
    > > named the railway station after it. Most of the time the name of
    > > the metro station are not the same: Pushkinskaya metro & Vitebski
    > > railway, Ploshchad Vosstania metro & Moskovski railway, and
    > > Ploshchad Lenina metro & Finlyandski railway. I wonder why they
    > > built the new railway station further to the southeast, further away
    > > from Helsinki?
    >
    > There are several valid reasons. First of all Finlyandski station has been
    > the only "main" station on the northern side of the Neva River that divides
    > St Petersburg in two halfs. [...]

    > Ladozhski is on the only rail line crossing the Neva River not very far from
    > the Finlyandski bridge.

And I guess it is between the centre and Ladoga lake ;-)

Regards, ULF

P@L

Finally. looks like I would be visiting St.PB and Moscow. By bus to
St.PB from Helsinki and return and by train from St.PB to Moscow and
vice versa.Being a student, i managed to get some concession (30%) for
the bus journey. The train tickets have no concessions, but I thought
to buy it from Helsinki for this time. I could explore more during my
journey on the possibility of buying tickets in Russia. Anyways, as
Timo mentioned, looks like it's going to be crowded especially since
St.PB is celebrating its 300 years!!. Thanks to you all for a useful
discussion.


"Timo Valtonen" wrote in message news:...
    > "Casey" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Oh that's interesting. I assumed that the railway station was new
    > > and that a new metro station would be built for it. Ladozhskaya
    > > (note the correct spelling) is an existing metro station, and they
    > > named the railway station after it. Most of the time the name of
    > > the metro station are not the same: Pushkinskaya metro & Vitebski
    > > railway, Ploshchad Vosstania metro & Moskovski railway, and
    > > Ploshchad Lenina metro & Finlyandski railway. I wonder why they
    > > built the new railway station further to the southeast, further away
    > > from Helsinki?
    >
    > There are several valid reasons. First of all Finlyandski station has been
    > the only "main" station on the northern side of the Neva River that divides
    > St Petersburg in two halfs. The city is growing fast on this side towards
    > the Karelian Isthmus so the capacity of Finlyandski station has already been
    > met. Already now it has troubles in handling all of the designated commuter
    > and long distance traffic.
    >
    > Second reason is that St Petersburg lacks throughgoing stations for transit
    > traffic. For example, the Helsinki - Moscow stations have so far stopped at
    > Rutschi, actually only a platform with a shack with no services. Therefore,
    > passengers going for example from Vyborg to Novgorod have had to use a train
    > to reach Finlyandski, take a metro to Moskovski and continue then by train.
    > By 2008 both Helsinki trains, Repin and Sibelius, should be high-speed
    > services using only 3 hours instead of the present 5,5 hours with connection
    > to Moscow at Ladozhski for trains using only 4 hours to Moscow. That would
    > reduce travel time between Helsinki to Moscow from the present 13 hours to
    > mere 7 hours. (A different thing, of course, is whether it's nicer to take a
    > overnight sleeper service than a daytime service including a change of
    > train.)
    >
    > Ladozhski is on the only rail line crossing the Neva River not very far from
    > the Finlyandski bridge. It is futher away from the centre compared with
    > Finlyandski station, but the connections to the centre are quite good, only
    > two metro stops to Hotel Moskva or 3-4 stops (including one change) to the
    > metro stations on Nevski prospekt. Driving during rush hours is not so
    > charming, though.
    >
    > For sentimental reasons the change from Finlyandski to Ladozhski is
    > difficult. VR - the Finnish railways - used to run the Finlyandski station
    > and all rail services from it up to the red revolution, hence the name
    > Finlyandski.
    >
    > --
    >
    > Thanks for spelling correction.
    > The names of the metro and railway stations are actually the same, the
    > adjective forms of the noun Ladoga (Lake Ladoga as the place is on the side
    > of the lake looking from the centre). In the Russian language metro stations
    > are called "stantsiya" (fem.) and railway stations "vokzal" (masc.),
    > therefore the ending of the adjective is different if it means the metro or
    > railway station.
    >
    > tv