smoking in Europe
May 25th 2007, 12:58 pm
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
Poetic Justice <[email protected]> wrote:
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Also, does anyone remember Sjoerd's
> >post here a few years ago when the
> >subject sort of came up?
> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is
> >a bit bad for your health. However,
> >Europeans value freedom and we don't
> >like to be told what we can and can not
> >do.
> >A little bit of second hand smoke will kill
> >nobody. Live and let live. "
>
> Yes, I remember his smoking freedom posts
.
> I recall one thread here when NYC banned smoking in bars.
> Sjoerd's response was a classic and I wish I could recall it exactly
> but basically the US was fascist or nazi for passing these types of
> laws, freedom, rights, etc.
I think I pointed out to him at the time that Ireland has just become
the first country in the world to pass a comprehensive ban, and Norway
was about to follow suit.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Also, does anyone remember Sjoerd's
> >post here a few years ago when the
> >subject sort of came up?
> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is
> >a bit bad for your health. However,
> >Europeans value freedom and we don't
> >like to be told what we can and can not
> >do.
> >A little bit of second hand smoke will kill
> >nobody. Live and let live. "
>
> Yes, I remember his smoking freedom posts
.> I recall one thread here when NYC banned smoking in bars.
> Sjoerd's response was a classic and I wish I could recall it exactly
> but basically the US was fascist or nazi for passing these types of
> laws, freedom, rights, etc.
I think I pointed out to him at the time that Ireland has just become
the first country in the world to pass a comprehensive ban, and Norway
was about to follow suit.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
May 25th 2007, 12:58 pm
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
> >Live and let live. "
> >
> >LOL
>
> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
> thing.
All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
though) yet think nothing of lighting up as diners are around them are
eating. I'm sorry- I can't see that as a live and let live situation.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
> >Live and let live. "
> >
> >LOL
>
> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
> thing.
All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
though) yet think nothing of lighting up as diners are around them are
eating. I'm sorry- I can't see that as a live and let live situation.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
May 25th 2007, 12:58 pm
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
tim..... <[email protected]> wrote:
> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1hymw24.l2w00h28p5whN%[email protected]...
> > tim..... <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> >> Did I see you say that you recently went to Portugal?
> >
> > Yes, on uk.railway I think
> >
> >> I was there three weeks ago
> >
> > <snap>
> >
> >> and I can't say that I saw
> >> anybody smoking in public places.
> >
> > Where were you? We were in Lisbon and Lagos-
>
> snap
We were probably there the same time- May 1-8, first half in Lisbon. Did
you take the train to Lagos?
> > plenty of smoking in
> > restaurants, I'm afraid. We were even bothered by outside smoke in one
> > place in Lagos. I played the ugly British tourist and gave the german
> > speaking diners in the table opposite the daggers whenever possible.
>
> I must have been unobservant then.
In Lisbon, I think that every restaurant we dined in had someone smoking
at some point. They were usually quite big, and as we eat quite early,
they weren't full. The only time it really bothered me was in a small,
very busy and deservedly popular restaurant- apart from the smoke!
>
> >
> > The Ibis Liberdade we stayed at in Lisbon is completely non-smoking,
> > including _all_ rooms. Very nice indeed!
>
> I was in the Jose Malhoa, the other one was full.
What was that one like? The Liberdade was a good location, though it's
quite a steep walk. Something you have to get used to in most parts of
the city I suppose. In a country that knows how to make a great
espresso, why oh why do they have those vile automatic machines at
breakfast...
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> "David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:1hymw24.l2w00h28p5whN%[email protected]...
> > tim..... <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> >> Did I see you say that you recently went to Portugal?
> >
> > Yes, on uk.railway I think
> >
> >> I was there three weeks ago
> >
> > <snap>
> >
> >> and I can't say that I saw
> >> anybody smoking in public places.
> >
> > Where were you? We were in Lisbon and Lagos-
>
> snap
We were probably there the same time- May 1-8, first half in Lisbon. Did
you take the train to Lagos?
> > plenty of smoking in
> > restaurants, I'm afraid. We were even bothered by outside smoke in one
> > place in Lagos. I played the ugly British tourist and gave the german
> > speaking diners in the table opposite the daggers whenever possible.
>
> I must have been unobservant then.
In Lisbon, I think that every restaurant we dined in had someone smoking
at some point. They were usually quite big, and as we eat quite early,
they weren't full. The only time it really bothered me was in a small,
very busy and deservedly popular restaurant- apart from the smoke!
>
> >
> > The Ibis Liberdade we stayed at in Lisbon is completely non-smoking,
> > including _all_ rooms. Very nice indeed!
>
> I was in the Jose Malhoa, the other one was full.
What was that one like? The Liberdade was a good location, though it's
quite a steep walk. Something you have to get used to in most parts of
the city I suppose. In a country that knows how to make a great
espresso, why oh why do they have those vile automatic machines at
breakfast...
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
May 25th 2007, 1:22 pm
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:31 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 20:20:12 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> Countries with fairly comprehensive bans on smoking in public
>> >>>>> places (including bars and restaurants) include: Ireland, Italy,
>> >>>>> Norway, Scotland, Wales, and as of this July, England.
>> >>>>> Other countries are enacting similar laws, but I can't immediately
>> >>>>> think of other European countries with laws as stringent at the moment.
>> >>>> Turkey has something fairly similar - I've lost the reference to the
>> >>>> law, but the effect has been much the same as in Scotland.
>> >>> So you can't smoke in restaurants or bars in Turkey? I'll have to push
>> >>> it up my list of places to visit!
>> >> Of course you can and even worse everybody over about 12 chain smokes.
>> >> We spent our two weeks in June-July in Turkey last year, constantly
>> >> on the move trying to avoid cigarette smoke.
>> >
>> >Where were you? I've been all over the country in the last few years
>> >(Istanbul, Edirne, Antalya, Trabzon, Diyarbakir...) and found hardly
>> >anybody smoking in public.
>>
>> Antalya, Side. I'm not talking about bus travel. I'm talking about people
>> smoking in restaurants.
>
>All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
>problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned in NL since
the early 1960s.
--
Martin
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 20:20:12 +0100, Jack Campin - bogus address
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >>>>> Countries with fairly comprehensive bans on smoking in public
>> >>>>> places (including bars and restaurants) include: Ireland, Italy,
>> >>>>> Norway, Scotland, Wales, and as of this July, England.
>> >>>>> Other countries are enacting similar laws, but I can't immediately
>> >>>>> think of other European countries with laws as stringent at the moment.
>> >>>> Turkey has something fairly similar - I've lost the reference to the
>> >>>> law, but the effect has been much the same as in Scotland.
>> >>> So you can't smoke in restaurants or bars in Turkey? I'll have to push
>> >>> it up my list of places to visit!
>> >> Of course you can and even worse everybody over about 12 chain smokes.
>> >> We spent our two weeks in June-July in Turkey last year, constantly
>> >> on the move trying to avoid cigarette smoke.
>> >
>> >Where were you? I've been all over the country in the last few years
>> >(Istanbul, Edirne, Antalya, Trabzon, Diyarbakir...) and found hardly
>> >anybody smoking in public.
>>
>> Antalya, Side. I'm not talking about bus travel. I'm talking about people
>> smoking in restaurants.
>
>All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
>problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned in NL since
the early 1960s.
--
Martin
May 25th 2007, 1:25 pm
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:31 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> >All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
> >problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
>
> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned in NL
> since the early 1960s.
It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the two
things.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:31 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> >All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
> >problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
>
> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned in NL
> since the early 1960s.
It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the two
things.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
May 25th 2007, 1:25 pm
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
>> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
>> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
>> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
>> >Live and let live. "
>> >
>> >LOL
>>
>> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
>> thing.
>
>All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
>someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
>freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
>that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
>though
It's quite common here for women in particular to have a lit cigarette going,
whilst they are eating. Maybe they think it is a fashion statement?
>) yet think nothing of lighting up as diners are around them are
>eating. I'm sorry- I can't see that as a live and let live situation.
Nor me and since they are in the minority in most countries it's why it has been
relatively easy to bring in bans.
--
Martin
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
>> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
>> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
>> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
>> >Live and let live. "
>> >
>> >LOL
>>
>> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
>> thing.
>
>All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
>someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
>freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
>that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
>though
It's quite common here for women in particular to have a lit cigarette going,
whilst they are eating. Maybe they think it is a fashion statement?
>) yet think nothing of lighting up as diners are around them are
>eating. I'm sorry- I can't see that as a live and let live situation.
Nor me and since they are in the minority in most countries it's why it has been
relatively easy to bring in bans.
--
Martin
May 25th 2007, 1:34 pm
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
> >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
> >> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
> >> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
> >> >Live and let live. "
> >> >
> >> >LOL
> >>
> >> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
> >> thing.
> >
> >All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
> >someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
> >freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
> >that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
> >though
>
> It's quite common here for women in particular to have a lit cigarette going,
> whilst they are eating. Maybe they think it is a fashion statement?
What I love is when people hold the cigarette away from them, so the
smoke can blow on me. Maybe if they held the lit cigarette under their
nose the whole time, they'd replicate my experience of it.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
> >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
> >>
> >> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
> >> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
> >> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
> >> >Live and let live. "
> >> >
> >> >LOL
> >>
> >> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
> >> thing.
> >
> >All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
> >someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
> >freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
> >that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
> >though
>
> It's quite common here for women in particular to have a lit cigarette going,
> whilst they are eating. Maybe they think it is a fashion statement?
What I love is when people hold the cigarette away from them, so the
smoke can blow on me. Maybe if they held the lit cigarette under their
nose the whole time, they'd replicate my experience of it.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
May 25th 2007, 1:41 pm
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:25:29 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:31 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>[]
>> >All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
>> >problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
>>
>> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned in NL
>> since the early 1960s.
>
>It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
>smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the two
>things.
Smoking was banned in cinemas at the same time.
--
Martin
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:31 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>[]
>> >All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
>> >problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
>>
>> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned in NL
>> since the early 1960s.
>
>It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
>smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the two
>things.
Smoking was banned in cinemas at the same time.
--
Martin
May 25th 2007, 1:42 pm
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:34:02 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
>> >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
>> >> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
>> >> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
>> >> >Live and let live. "
>> >> >
>> >> >LOL
>> >>
>> >> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
>> >> thing.
>> >
>> >All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
>> >someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
>> >freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
>> >that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
>> >though
>>
>> It's quite common here for women in particular to have a lit cigarette going,
>> whilst they are eating. Maybe they think it is a fashion statement?
>
>What I love is when people hold the cigarette away from them, so the
>smoke can blow on me. Maybe if they held the lit cigarette under their
>nose the whole time, they'd replicate my experience of it.
Yes it pisses us off too, even worse is the unbelievable rudeness you get when
you ask them to hold it somewhere else.
--
Martin
chancellor (*)) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 24 May 2007 19:47:06 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
>> >> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >"Yes, we know that second hand smoke is a bit bad for your health.
>> >> >However, Europeans value freedom and we don't like to be told what we
>> >> >can and can not do. A little bit of second hand smoke will kill nobody.
>> >> >Live and let live. "
>> >> >
>> >> >LOL
>> >>
>> >> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
>> >> thing.
>> >
>> >All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
>> >someone else's smoke. In a smoking environment, the smoker has complete
>> >freedom- they choose when they smoke- I can't make that choice. I notice
>> >that most smokers will not smoke and eat at the same time (some do
>> >though
>>
>> It's quite common here for women in particular to have a lit cigarette going,
>> whilst they are eating. Maybe they think it is a fashion statement?
>
>What I love is when people hold the cigarette away from them, so the
>smoke can blow on me. Maybe if they held the lit cigarette under their
>nose the whole time, they'd replicate my experience of it.
Yes it pisses us off too, even worse is the unbelievable rudeness you get when
you ask them to hold it somewhere else.
--
Martin
May 25th 2007, 2:21 pm
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
>> thing.
>
>All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
>someone else's smoke.
Well no, you were complaining about them standing in the street.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
email me at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
>> thing.
>
>All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
>someone else's smoke.
Well no, you were complaining about them standing in the street.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
email me at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
May 25th 2007, 2:22 pm
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:34:02 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>What I love is when people hold the cigarette away from them, so the
>smoke can blow on me. Maybe if they held the lit cigarette under their
>nose the whole time, they'd replicate my experience of it.
Im tempted to pour my drink on it.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
email me at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>What I love is when people hold the cigarette away from them, so the
>smoke can blow on me. Maybe if they held the lit cigarette under their
>nose the whole time, they'd replicate my experience of it.
Im tempted to pour my drink on it.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
email me at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
May 25th 2007, 2:24 pm
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
> >> thing.
> >
> >All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
> >someone else's smoke.
>
> Well no, you were complaining about them standing in the street.
I'm complaining about it, but I wouldn't ban them from doing it.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> On Fri, 25 May 2007 13:58:32 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
> _the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >> a very small bit probably wont, a bit of live and let live is a good
> >> thing.
> >
> >All I want is to enjoy a meal or a drink without being exposed to
> >someone else's smoke.
>
> Well no, you were complaining about them standing in the street.
I'm complaining about it, but I wouldn't ban them from doing it.
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
May 25th 2007, 2:43 pm
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
>>> All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
>>> problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
>> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned
>> in NL since the early 1960s.
> It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
> smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the
> two things.
In Turkey the bans on smoking in buses and in other public places
came into effect at the same time. Turkish buses used to be ghastly,
as did a lot of public places. The change was very quick in both.
I've found the text of the relevant law; I'll translate it tonight.
There is a fair bit of discussion at the moment about whether it
covers internet cafes, since they can be construed as being cultural
or educational centres, which are a category of place where smoking
is specifically banned. It's not often you meet with a non-smoking
internet cafe manager in Turkey, though the customers don't do it
much.
I don't think there's any ban on smoking on buses in Croatia. And it's
still common on routes serving council housing estates in Scotland, when
those routes are operated by First Bus - far worse than anything I've
met with in Turkey in recent years. Most tourists would never use those
services, though. A lot of the smokers are also drunk or on drugs.
(Some of First's services to the Scottish Borders are fitted with blue
lights to stop the passengers shooting up - towns like Hawick are
notorious for their heroin problem).
The worst smoking problem I've met with on a bus was with a Turkish-
Bosnian company running a service from Budapest to Istanbul in 1991.
Half the passengers were thirtysomething Hungarian neds acting like
they'd never encountered duty-free before.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk =============Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
>>> problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
>> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned
>> in NL since the early 1960s.
> It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
> smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the
> two things.
In Turkey the bans on smoking in buses and in other public places
came into effect at the same time. Turkish buses used to be ghastly,
as did a lot of public places. The change was very quick in both.
I've found the text of the relevant law; I'll translate it tonight.
There is a fair bit of discussion at the moment about whether it
covers internet cafes, since they can be construed as being cultural
or educational centres, which are a category of place where smoking
is specifically banned. It's not often you meet with a non-smoking
internet cafe manager in Turkey, though the customers don't do it
much.
I don't think there's any ban on smoking on buses in Croatia. And it's
still common on routes serving council housing estates in Scotland, when
those routes are operated by First Bus - far worse than anything I've
met with in Turkey in recent years. Most tourists would never use those
services, though. A lot of the smokers are also drunk or on drugs.
(Some of First's services to the Scottish Borders are fitted with blue
lights to stop the passengers shooting up - towns like Hawick are
notorious for their heroin problem).
The worst smoking problem I've met with on a bus was with a Turkish-
Bosnian company running a service from Budapest to Istanbul in 1991.
Half the passengers were thirtysomething Hungarian neds acting like
they'd never encountered duty-free before.
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk =============Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
May 25th 2007, 2:43 pm
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
On Fri, 25 May 2007 15:24:25 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne,
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> Well no, you were complaining about them standing in the street.
>
>I'm complaining about it, but I wouldn't ban them from doing it.
Ah, I see.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
email me at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
_the_ chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> Well no, you were complaining about them standing in the street.
>
>I'm complaining about it, but I wouldn't ban them from doing it.
Ah, I see.
--
Mike Reid
Cutty Sark appeal"http://www.cuttysark.org.uk"
email me at "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk"
May 25th 2007, 2:58 pm
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: smoking in Europe
Jack Campin - bogus address <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>> All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
> >>> problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
> >> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned
> >> in NL since the early 1960s.
> > It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
> > smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the
> > two things.
>
> In Turkey the bans on smoking in buses and in other public places
> came into effect at the same time. Turkish buses used to be ghastly,
> as did a lot of public places. The change was very quick in both.
>
> I've found the text of the relevant law; I'll translate it tonight.
> There is a fair bit of discussion at the moment about whether it
> covers internet cafes, since they can be construed as being cultural
> or educational centres, which are a category of place where smoking
> is specifically banned. It's not often you meet with a non-smoking
> internet cafe manager in Turkey, though the customers don't do it
> much.
>
> I don't think there's any ban on smoking on buses in Croatia.
The only buses I've been on (Istria) were definitely non-smoking, but I
don't know if there's a specific law.
> And it's
> still common on routes serving council housing estates in Scotland, when
> those routes are operated by First Bus - far worse than anything I've
> met with in Turkey in recent years.
I don't know quite why you're singling out First- it's the anti-social
behaviour of a minority which is the problem. I've used first buses in
central scotland (mostly around Stirling) tons of times, and never had a
problem. You'll occasionally get a drunk smoking on a bus (First or
other companies) or tram here in Manchester- but it's still banned. I
got a drunk escorted off a tram by the police a year ago when he
wouldn't stop smoking and started swearing at people asking him to stop.
Here's a link to current laws in different parts of Europe. It's
domino-ing towards bans throughout I think.
http://www.epha.org/a/1941
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007
> >>> All over Europe, I don't recall smoking on buses being much of a
> >>> problem. Where is it common in Europe, if anywhere?
> >> Jack mentioned buses specifically. Smoking on buses has been banned
> >> in NL since the early 1960s.
> > It was a lot later than that here, but the ban predated the ban on
> > smoking in public places, so I don't know why he's connecting the
> > two things.
>
> In Turkey the bans on smoking in buses and in other public places
> came into effect at the same time. Turkish buses used to be ghastly,
> as did a lot of public places. The change was very quick in both.
>
> I've found the text of the relevant law; I'll translate it tonight.
> There is a fair bit of discussion at the moment about whether it
> covers internet cafes, since they can be construed as being cultural
> or educational centres, which are a category of place where smoking
> is specifically banned. It's not often you meet with a non-smoking
> internet cafe manager in Turkey, though the customers don't do it
> much.
>
> I don't think there's any ban on smoking on buses in Croatia.
The only buses I've been on (Istria) were definitely non-smoking, but I
don't know if there's a specific law.
> And it's
> still common on routes serving council housing estates in Scotland, when
> those routes are operated by First Bus - far worse than anything I've
> met with in Turkey in recent years.
I don't know quite why you're singling out First- it's the anti-social
behaviour of a minority which is the problem. I've used first buses in
central scotland (mostly around Stirling) tons of times, and never had a
problem. You'll occasionally get a drunk smoking on a bus (First or
other companies) or tram here in Manchester- but it's still banned. I
got a drunk escorted off a tram by the police a year ago when he
wouldn't stop smoking and started swearing at people asking him to stop.
Here's a link to current laws in different parts of Europe. It's
domino-ing towards bans throughout I think.
http://www.epha.org/a/1941
--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Pres. Blair- May, 2007