In article <[email protected]>, Donna Evleth
<[email protected]> writes
    >Now I am curious about how it would work if it were the other way around, and I
    >wanted to open a bank account in the US with no address in the US. I don't actually
    >plan to do this, as I already have a checking account in the US, which was a
    >holdover from when I lived there 27 years ago, which allowed me to later use a
    >foreign address because the account already existed, and it was simply treated as a
    >change of address. I'm sure it would be much easier than what you give above, but
    >now I am curious. No, this is not a troll. I am honestly curious.
    >
    >Donna Evleth
    >>
There are American banks in the UK which will open dollar accounts in the USA but you
have to keep a minimum of 1000GBP on deposit in the current acccount.

Marie
--
David Lewis [email protected]

Earl Evleth wrote:
    >
    > I get questioned now and then about bank accounts in France.
    >
    > Regular checking accounts are hard to open up for foreigners unless they have a
    > healthy hunk of money to deposit. Checks are often accepted in France to
    > transactions (hotel and restaurant bills) which would hard to do in the USA and
    > perhaps most countries.
    >
    > The Postal service in France also provides banking, savings and investment account
    > service.
    >
    > A popular savings account, for which income is tax free, is the Livre A. One can
    > not have more than 15300 euros in the account*, current interest rate is 3%. This
    > is awarded at the beginning of each year for the previous year, and figured on the
    > various monthly deposit levels one has. Foreigners can have an account and you can
    > get withdrawals at any postoffice in France, if you have your bank book and
    > identity documents. The interest received is not reported to the government and
    > there is no French tax liability.

I'm confused....The Livre A account is available at the local PTT and the income
from it is not reported to the French government (and I assume not to the IRS
either). I recently opened an account at an Internet bank and I'm sure they report
to the French IRS. Can someone explain?-

Let me tell you about my HUGE point for getting an ATM card and bank account in
France. I fly to France 3-4 times a year. Most of my childhood friends are in Paris.
I tend to bring them electronics/computer stuff that is 30-50% less than in France.
And I get stuck with more Euros than I know what to do with in a single trip. So I
thought, why not open a bank account, deposit their Euros, and use them when I go
back to France now and then.

When you want to open a FOREIGN account, that is an account for non-resident
of France, you MUST go to certain bank branches. All the others deal with
resident accounts.

When the bank hears AMERICAN and NONRESIDENT they must probably think Enron executive
who has just stolen the blood of millions of shareholders.

    > Real issue is, why would they want to go through the "pain" of dealing with you if
    > you don't look like a worthwile business prospect?

I'd say I'd be the perfect customer: rarely touching my money except when I visit,
NEVER ligning up in queue to ask a question [ that's supposedly the highest cost
center for servicing clients ] and NEVER signing a bad check though the law is so
strict in France that one must be out of his mind to write a bad check.

In any case, my conclusion has been to basically use cash to pay for most of my
expenses in France once I have my euros in hand and then simply keeping them with me
when I head back to Texas.

In article <[email protected]> , "H. Benamar"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > Let me tell you about my HUGE point for getting an ATM card and bank account in
    > France. I fly to France 3-4 times a year. Most of my childhood friends are in
    > Paris. I tend to bring them electronics/computer stuff that is 30-50% less than in
    > France. And I get stuck with more Euros than I know what to do with in a single
    > trip. So I thought, why not open a bank account, deposit their Euros, and use them
    > when I go back to France now and then.
    >
    > When you want to open a FOREIGN account, that is an account for non-resident of
    > France, you MUST go to certain bank branches. All the others deal with resident
    > accounts.
    >
    > When the bank hears AMERICAN and NONRESIDENT they must probably think Enron
    > executive who has just stolen the blood of millions of shareholders.
    >
    > > Real issue is, why would they want to go through the "pain" of dealing with you
    > > if you don't look like a worthwile business prospect?
    >
    > I'd say I'd be the perfect customer: rarely touching my money except when I visit,
    > NEVER ligning up in queue to ask a question [ that's supposedly the highest cost
    > center for servicing clients ] and NEVER signing a bad check though the law is so
    > strict in France that one must be out of his mind to write a bad check.

Me too... I still have accounts from years back in 3 EU countries (leave little cash
in them) and one in Tokyo that has a good amount of 'mad money' in it that hasnt been
touched for more than 10 years.

jay Fri, May 24, 2002 mailto:[email protected]

    >
    > In any case, my conclusion has been to basically use cash to pay for most of my
    > expenses in France once I have my euros in hand and then simply keeping them with
    > me when I head back to Texas.
    >
    >

--

Legend insists that as he finished his abject... Galileo muttered under his breath:
"Nevertheless, it does move."

"Devil" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

    > Anyway, this is a pretty typical thing: employees are clearly more important than
    > customers .

In France, "customer service" means "the customer serves." Unfortunately, this is
a reality, not an exaggeration. I don't know why the French put up with it, but
they do. The general attitude of businesses is that it is your privilege to pay
them for their products or services, not the other way around. This is why French
companies tend to do rather poorly when competing directly with foreign companies
outside of France.

Mxsmanic wrote:
    >
    > " The general attitude of businesses is that it is your privilege to pay them for
    > their products or services, not the other way around. This is why French
    > companies tend to do rather poorly when competing directly with foreign companies
    > outside of France.

These attitudes may well exist but they are by no means invariant. I suppose my own
experiences are not statistically significant but, on more than just one visit, my
dealings with banks, real estate agents and the Post Office in Chamonix-Mont Blanc
were quite pleasant. My French is not particularly fluent (that's an optimistic
assessment!) but there was no rudeness. I can't say the same for Paris but, even
there, most things went well, apart from once when a car rental agency (a branch of
an American company) wasted several hours of my time and later unsuccessfully tried
to charge me for a collision damage waver that I had refused.

Jim.

--
James V. Silverton Potomac, Maryland.

Alan wrote:
    >
    >
    > I'm confused....The Livre A account is available at the local PTT and the income
    > from it is not reported to the French government (and I assume not to the IRS
    > either). I recently opened an account at an Internet bank and I'm sure they
    > report to the French IRS. Can someone explain?-

Yes, you missed the point. It's not a reporting issue. Interest income from the
livret d'epargne apparently is tax-free according to their tax code.

As to banks reporting to the French income tax folks, perhaps on paper or if you
stole the Taj Mahal. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the efficiency of the French
tax collection system. I was hearing on French TV the other day that only about
50% pay income tax, period. (And the current electioral period government even
plans to lower income tax; when the real problem is the huge GST rates. On a very
regressive tax.)

Devil <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > Alan wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > I'm confused....The Livre A account is available at the local PTT and the
    > > income from it is not reported to the French government (and I assume not to
    > > the IRS either). I recently opened an account at an Internet bank and I'm sure
    > > they report to the French IRS. Can someone explain?-
    >
    > Yes, you missed the point. It's not a reporting issue. Interest income from the
    > livret d'epargne apparently is tax-free according to their tax code.
    >
    > As to banks reporting to the French income tax folks, perhaps on paper or if you
    > stole the Taj Mahal. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the efficiency of the French
    > tax collection system. I was hearing on French TV the other day that only about
    > 50% pay income tax, period. (And the current electioral period government even
    > plans to lower income tax; when the real problem is the huge GST rates. On a very
    > regressive tax.)

I didn't understand very well what you said but apparently you can't understand
better french that I can understand english...

There's no problem of collection of income tax for... 50% of the french taxpayers !!
They said that 50% of the french DON'T PAY income tax. I mean : because 50% of the
french are EXEMPTED from income tax (tax exemption). Personaly I pay it in 10 periods
automatically taken on my bank account. My bank is http://laposte.fr where I have
online accounts notably a Livret A. To see them choose in the website, to the right :
Votre argent/Vos comptes en lignes/demonstration/oui

didier Meurgues

meurgues wrote:
    >
    > Devil <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Alan wrote:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I'm confused....The Livre A account is available at the local PTT and the
    > > > income from it is not reported to the French government (and I assume not to
    > > > the IRS either). I recently opened an account at an Internet bank and I'm
    > > > sure they report to the French IRS. Can someone explain?-
    > >
    > > Yes, you missed the point. It's not a reporting issue. Interest income from the
    > > livret d'epargne apparently is tax-free according to their tax code.
    > >
    > > As to banks reporting to the French income tax folks, perhaps on paper or if you
    > > stole the Taj Mahal. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the efficiency of the
    > > French tax collection system. I was hearing on French TV the other day that only
    > > about 50% pay income tax, period. (And the current electioral period government
    > > even plans to lower income tax; when the real problem is the huge GST rates. On a
    > > very regressive tax.)
    >
    > I didn't understand very well what you said but apparently you can't understand
    > better french that I can understand english...
    >
    > There's no problem of collection of income tax for... 50% of the french taxpayers
    > !! They said that 50% of the french DON'T PAY income tax. I mean : because 50% of
    > the french are EXEMPTED from income tax (tax exemption).

So? You think it's easier to hide within 5% or 50% of the population?

And add to that that there is no income tax deduction from payroll.

However, it's interesting that you didn't react to my other point: that the
regressive nature of France's tax system would make the envy of the most rabid Bush
supporters...

And that it will even be more so after the proposed cuts in the platform of
Chirac's team.

[email protected] (meurgues) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]. com>...
    > Devil <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Alan wrote:
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > I'm confused....The Livre A account is available at the local PTT and the
    > > > income from it is not reported to the French government (and I assume not to
    > > > the IRS either). I recently opened an account at an Internet bank and I'm
    > > > sure they report to the French IRS. Can someone explain?-
    > >
    > > Yes, you missed the point. It's not a reporting issue. Interest income from the
    > > livret d'epargne apparently is tax-free according to their tax code.
    > >
    > > As to banks reporting to the French income tax folks, perhaps on paper or if you
    > > stole the Taj Mahal. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the efficiency of the
    > > French tax collection system. I was hearing on French TV the other day that only
    > > about 50% pay income tax, period. (And the current electioral period government
    > > even plans to lower income tax; when the real problem is the huge GST rates. On a
    > > very regressive tax.)
    >
    > I didn't understand very well what you said but apparently you can't understand
    > better french that I can understand english...
    >
    > There's no problem of collection of income tax for... 50% of the french taxpayers
    > !! They said that 50% of the french DON'T PAY income tax. I mean : because 50% of
    > the french are EXEMPTED from income tax (tax exemption). Personaly I pay it in 10
    > periods automatically (prélévées) "taken" on my bank account

at my demand (mensualisation), like for a large portion of the french(foyers)
"families" subject to income tax.

    > My bank is http://laposte.fr

I forgot the wwww !! It's : http://www.laposte.fr

where I have online accounts notably a
    > Livret A. To see them choose in the website, to the right : Votre argent/Vos
    > comptes en lignes/demonstration/effectuer un prelevement (for ex.)
    >
    > didier Meurgues

Devil <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > meurgues wrote:
    > >
    > > Devil <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > Alan wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > >
    > > > > I'm confused....The Livre A account is available at the local PTT and the
    > > > > income from it is not reported to the French government (and I assume not
    > > > > to the IRS either). I recently opened an account at an Internet bank and
    > > > > I'm sure they report to the French IRS. Can someone explain?-
    > > >
    > > > Yes, you missed the point. It's not a reporting issue. Interest income from the
    > > > livret d'epargne apparently is tax-free according to their tax code.
    > > >
    > > > As to banks reporting to the French income tax folks, perhaps on paper or if
    > > > you stole the Taj Mahal. But I wouldn't hold my breath on the efficiency of the
    > > > French tax collection system. I was hearing on French TV the other day that
    > > > only about 50% pay income tax, period. (And the current electioral period
    > > > government even plans to lower income tax; when the real problem is the huge
    > > > GST rates. On a very regressive tax.)
    > >
    > > I didn't understand very well what you said but apparently you can't understand
    > > better french that I can understand english...
    > >
    > > There's no problem of collection of income tax for... 50% of the french taxpayers
    > > !! They said that 50% of the french DON'T PAY income tax. I mean : because 50% of
    > > the french are EXEMPTED from income tax (tax exemption).
    >
    > So? You think it's easier to hide within 5% or 50% of the population?

Hi, gentle Devil,

Today I took a dictionnary. Nevertheless, I still can't understand very well what you
say. I think I misunderstood your precedent posts.

PS : I declared several weeks ago that I'm reducing my participation to this
newsgroup but since I'm always checking my last post, I reply again to you.
Nevertheless, this is my last one on this thread.

    > And add to that that there is no income tax deduction from payroll.

If I've well understood... : Because many people, like me until last year, have other
incomes than salary (if you rent a house for ex.) and the income tax declaration is
used too to calculate other taxes. So these persons would still be obliged to fill a
tax declaration even with the existence of a direct tax withdrawal from their salary
by their boss. But the government is thinking about a reform, at least for those who
have, I suppose, only salary incomes.

    > However, it's interesting that you didn't react to my other point: that the
    > regressive nature of France's tax system would make the envy of the most rabid Bush
    > supporters...

I still can't understand very well what a Bush supporter can envy from the french tax
system... The only thing I can say about income tax deductions is that the persons
who are not their own boss, but employed by somebody else, like me, representing more
than 90% (95%?) of the french workers, benefit of income tax rebates of 20%, then 10%
on the result, and that there are different deductions according to the number of
childrens, if you have made some kind of investments (my life insurance 10 years
rebate expired this year), donations, etc... Finally if the result of your
calculation (mine is not complicated since I always found the exact result)is under a
certain low amount, wich I can't remember, you are exempted to pay your income tax,
which, as I said, concerns 50% of the french fiscal households as they say every year
in medias at the fatal moment of tax declaration. But because of the other direct and
indirect taxes, the "taux des prélèvements obligatoires", total of all taxes, is
still too high in France. I don't know what's GST rate.

didier Meurgues (alias Daniel Webster :+)

    > And that it will even be more so after the proposed cuts in the platform of
    > Chirac's team.

meurgues wrote:
    >
    > Devil <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > And add to that that there is no income tax deduction from payroll.
    >
    > If I've well understood... : Because many people, like me until last year, have
    > other incomes than salary (if you rent a house for ex.) and the income tax
    > declaration is used too to calculate other taxes. So these persons would still be
    > obliged to fill a tax declaration even with the existence of a direct tax
    > withdrawal from their salary by their boss. But the government is thinking about a
    > reform, at least for those who have, I suppose, only salary incomes.

My point was that payroll deduction is a wonderful source of information to the
taxman. Without tax, and in an environment where relatively few people pay tax
anyway, it must be difficult to find cheaters, which further encourages cheating.

    > > However, it's interesting that you didn't react to my other point: that the
    > > regressive nature of France's tax system would make the envy of the most rabid
    > > Bush supporters...
    >
    > I still can't understand very well what a Bush supporter can envy from the french
    > tax system...

Point was on the French system including very heavy indirect taxes such as VAT (TVA),
and a relatively modest income tax. While most elsewhere it's the opposite.

This creates an environment favoring wealthy people and burdening poor people who
still have to pay the indirect taxes on their purchases. In other words, what is
called a regressive tax system. Heavier on poorer people relatively comparing with
richer ones.

    > I don't know what's GST rate.

Did I use the acronym GST? That's the name for the Canadian federal VAT.

"Devil" <[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected]...

    > This creates an environment favoring wealthy people and burdening poor people who
    > still have to pay the indirect taxes on their purchases.

Hardly. VAT actually favors the poor. You can apply different VAT levels to different
products, making food and shelter free, for example, while heavily taxing jewelry or
other luxury items. And you don't pay VAT unless you buy something, whereas you pay
income tax whether you spend the money or not--so you can save money much more
effectively with VAT than with income tax.

Which France are you guys talking about? Have you actually earned a living in France
and had to suffer through the burdensome taxing system?

There is a flat 20% social security tax withheld on all salaries, at the source, by
the employer. There is a VAT that is levied on most your expenses that is close to
20% except on food, transportaiton, and medecine [ I think it is around 6% ] There is
the Local Tax or Taxe D'habitation [ it is about 1 month rent every year, about ... ]
Then there is property tax by the property owner [ which means the tax above is paid
by renters ! ] There is even a television usage tax! Then comes the actual tax on
income which climbs faster the space shuttle to 47% if you make $31,000 or above!!! [
The catch is very very few make that amount, engineers included ]

I do not see where the modesty of the french tax system is.

The French tax administration would have found Bin Laden by now if only he owed them
un centime!

"Devil" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > meurgues wrote:
    > >
    > > Devil <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
    > >
    > > > And add to that that there is no income tax deduction from payroll.
    > >
    > > If I've well understood... : Because many people, like me until last year, have
    > > other incomes than salary (if you rent a house for ex.) and the income tax
    > > declaration is used too to calculate other taxes. So these persons would still be
    > > obliged to fill a tax declaration even with the existence of a direct tax
    > > withdrawal from their salary by their boss. But the government is thinking about
    > > a reform, at least for those who have, I suppose, only salary incomes.
    >
    > My point was that payroll deduction is a wonderful source of information to the
    > taxman. Without tax, and in an environment where relatively few people pay tax
    > anyway, it must be difficult to find cheaters, which further encourages cheating.
    >
    > > > However, it's interesting that you didn't react to my other point:
that
    > > > the regressive nature of France's tax system would make the envy of
the
    > > > most rabid Bush supporters...
    > >
    > > I still can't understand very well what a Bush supporter can envy from the french
    > > tax system...
    >
    > Point was on the French system including very heavy indirect taxes such as VAT
    > (TVA), and a relatively modest income tax. While most elsewhere it's the opposite.
    >
    > This creates an environment favoring wealthy people and burdening poor people who
    > still have to pay the indirect taxes on their purchases. In other words, what is
    > called a regressive tax system. Heavier on poorer people relatively comparing with
    > richer ones.
    >
    >
    > > I don't know what's GST rate.
    >
    > Did I use the acronym GST? That's the name for the Canadian federal VAT.