Please help me with planning for rail travel in England. I will arrive at
Dover by Hoverspeed or ferry. To avoid driving in London, I am pondering
picking up a rental car northeast of the city, perhaps in Chelmsford. Please
advise me on rail travel from Dover to Chelmsford. I understand that the
train from Dover arrives at Charing Cross station while the train for
Chelmsford departs from Liverpool Station. How far apart are the two
stations? I have had some difficulty finding schedules and prices, but I am
a bit confused on the rules governing one-way and return fares. Any advice
you can give me on fares and the best web site for schedules would also be
appreciated. I would appreciate an email reply as well as a posting here.
Many thanks.

Harlan
-----
Soft adventure tours at http://softadventure.net

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:09:10 GMT, "HH" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Please help me with planning for rail travel in England. I will arrive at
    >Dover by Hoverspeed or ferry. To avoid driving in London, I am pondering
    >picking up a rental car northeast of the city, perhaps in Chelmsford. Please
    >advise me on rail travel from Dover to Chelmsford. I understand that the
    >train from Dover arrives at Charing Cross station while the train for
    >Chelmsford departs from Liverpool Station. How far apart are the two
    >stations? I have had some difficulty finding schedules and prices, but I am
    >a bit confused on the rules governing one-way and return fares. Any advice
    >you can give me on fares and the best web site for schedules would also be
    >appreciated. I would appreciate an email reply as well as a posting here.
    >Many thanks.
    >Harlan
    >-----
    >Soft adventure tours at http://softadventure.net

If your ticket states "via London" it will normally include either a
gate pass for the Underground, or, if the ticket is credit-card size,
it will operate the entrance and exit barriers at Charing Cross and
Liverpool Street Underground stations.

Charing Cross and Liverpool Street are served by the Circle Line - no
change of trains and a fairly easy transfer.

"Keith Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    | On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:09:10 GMT, "HH" <[email protected]>
    | wrote:
    |
    | >Please help me with planning for rail travel in England. I will arrive at
    | >Dover by Hoverspeed or ferry. To avoid driving in London, I am pondering
    | >picking up a rental car northeast of the city, perhaps in Chelmsford.
Please
    | >advise me on rail travel from Dover to Chelmsford. I understand that the
    | >train from Dover arrives at Charing Cross station while the train for
    | >Chelmsford departs from Liverpool Station. How far apart are the two
    | >stations? I have had some difficulty finding schedules and prices, but I
am
    | >a bit confused on the rules governing one-way and return fares. Any
advice
    | >you can give me on fares and the best web site for schedules would also
be
    | >appreciated. I would appreciate an email reply as well as a posting here.
    | >Many thanks.
    | >
    | >Harlan
    | >-----
    | >Soft adventure tours at http://softadventure.net
    |
    | If your ticket states "via London" it will normally include either a
    | gate pass for the Underground, or, if the ticket is credit-card size,
    | it will operate the entrance and exit barriers at Charing Cross and
    | Liverpool Street Underground stations.
    |
    | Charing Cross and Liverpool Street are served by the Circle Line - no
    | change of trains and a fairly easy transfer.
    |
Many thanks for the reply. If I understand correctly, wouldn't I have to get
off the Dover train at Charing Cross station, transfer to the Circle Line
underground, exit at the Liverpool Station, where I would board the train
for Chelmsford?

On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:31:38 GMT, "HH" <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >"Keith Anderson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]...
    >| On Wed, 03 Dec 2003 23:09:10 GMT, "HH" <[email protected]>
    >| wrote:
    >|
    >| >Please help me with planning for rail travel in England. I will arrive at
    >| >Dover by Hoverspeed or ferry. To avoid driving in London, I am pondering
    >| >picking up a rental car northeast of the city, perhaps in Chelmsford.
    >Please
    >| >advise me on rail travel from Dover to Chelmsford. I understand that the
    >| >train from Dover arrives at Charing Cross station while the train for
    >| >Chelmsford departs from Liverpool Station. How far apart are the two
    >| >stations? I have had some difficulty finding schedules and prices, but I
    >am
    >| >a bit confused on the rules governing one-way and return fares. Any
    >advice
    >| >you can give me on fares and the best web site for schedules would also
    >be
    >| >appreciated. I would appreciate an email reply as well as a posting here.
    >| >Many thanks.
    >| >
    >| >Harlan
    >| >-----
    >| >Soft adventure tours at http://softadventure.net
    >|
    >| If your ticket states "via London" it will normally include either a
    >| gate pass for the Underground, or, if the ticket is credit-card size,
    >| it will operate the entrance and exit barriers at Charing Cross and
    >| Liverpool Street Underground stations.
    >|
    >| Charing Cross and Liverpool Street are served by the Circle Line - no
    >| change of trains and a fairly easy transfer.
    >|
    >Many thanks for the reply. If I understand correctly, wouldn't I have to get
    >off the Dover train at Charing Cross station, transfer to the Circle Line
    >underground, exit at the Liverpool Station, where I would board the train
    >for Chelmsford?

That's exactly it.

Transit time on the Underground would be around 20 minutes but allow
longer for waiting time and possible delays.

"HH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:F1uzb.213045$Dw6.774191@attbi_s02...
    > Please help me with planning for rail travel in England. I will arrive at
    > Dover by Hoverspeed or ferry. To avoid driving in London, I am pondering
    > picking up a rental car northeast of the city, perhaps in Chelmsford.
Please
    > advise me on rail travel from Dover to Chelmsford. I understand that the
    > train from Dover arrives at Charing Cross station while the train for
    > Chelmsford departs from Liverpool Station. How far apart are the two
    > stations? I have had some difficulty finding schedules and prices, but I
am
    > a bit confused on the rules governing one-way and return fares. Any advice
    > you can give me on fares and the best web site for schedules would also be
    > appreciated. I would appreciate an email reply as well as a posting here.
    > Many thanks.
    > Harlan
    > -----

Where are you driving too ?

You dont actually need to drive in London at all
if you are heading north from Dover you can simply
go through the Dartford tunnel and round the orbital
motorway.

Chelmsford is a particularly odd choice in that unless
you are heading for Colchester or Ipswich its rather
out of your way.

If you do want to pick up a car outside London it may be
better to do so at somewhere closer to your destination
but I suspect picking it up in Dover and driving up the
M2 is a reasonable option.

Keith

"Keith Willshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    |
    | "HH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    | news:F1uzb.213045$Dw6.774191@attbi_s02...
    | > Please help me with planning for rail travel in England. I will arrive
at
    | > Dover by Hoverspeed or ferry. To avoid driving in London, I am pondering
    | > picking up a rental car northeast of the city, perhaps in Chelmsford.
    | Please
    | > advise me on rail travel from Dover to Chelmsford. I understand that the
    | > train from Dover arrives at Charing Cross station while the train for
    | > Chelmsford departs from Liverpool Station. How far apart are the two
    | > stations? I have had some difficulty finding schedules and prices, but I
    | am
    | > a bit confused on the rules governing one-way and return fares. Any
advice
    | > you can give me on fares and the best web site for schedules would also
be
    | > appreciated. I would appreciate an email reply as well as a posting
here.
    | > Many thanks.
    | >
    | > Harlan
    | > -----
    |
    | Where are you driving too ?
    |
    | You dont actually need to drive in London at all
    | if you are heading north from Dover you can simply
    | go through the Dartford tunnel and round the orbital
    | motorway.
    |
    | Chelmsford is a particularly odd choice in that unless
    | you are heading for Colchester or Ipswich its rather
    | out of your way.
    |
    | If you do want to pick up a car outside London it may be
    | better to do so at somewhere closer to your destination
    | but I suspect picking it up in Dover and driving up the
    | M2 is a reasonable option.
    |
    | Keith
    |
Thank you so much! I had completely forgotten about the Dartford tunnel.
Actually I would prefer to pick up the car in Dover so we can spend a few
days in the southeast before going to East Anglia. (BTW, when I said that I
would pick up the car at Chelmsford, it was just an example of someplace
where I could get the car northeastward of London.) You have simplified my
task and itinerary substantially. Thanks so much. I will indeed pick up a
car at Dover. If we decide to tour the southeast at the end of the trip--we
are flying home to the U.S. from Gatwick--I can drive straight from Dover on
the M2 to Dartford. One thing I must do immediately on arriving in England
is buy some current maps. The map I am consulting at the moment shows the
segment from Dover past Canterbury as the A2. I have had some grief in past
trips when I relied on old maps. I'll not make that mistake again.

Harlan

Remember, you'll need £1 toll for the Dartford tunnel. Best to get this
ready before you start driving as it saves a lot of searching at the
barrier. Some are manned, some you just chuck the money in a machine. (With
a big basket thing on top)

Rob

HH <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Keith Willshaw" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> "HH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:F1uzb.213045$Dw6.774191@attbi_s02...
    >>> Please help me with planning for rail travel in England. I will
    >>> arrive at Dover by Hoverspeed or ferry. To avoid driving in London,
    >>> I am pondering picking up a rental car northeast of the city,
    >>> perhaps in Chelmsford. Please advise me on rail travel from Dover
    >>> to Chelmsford. I understand that the train from Dover arrives at
    >>> Charing Cross station while the train for Chelmsford departs from
    >>> Liverpool Station. How far apart are the two stations? I have had
    >>> some difficulty finding schedules and prices, but I am a bit
    >>> confused on the rules governing one-way and return fares. Any
    >>> advice you can give me on fares and the best web site for schedules
    >>> would also be appreciated. I would appreciate an email reply as
    >>> well as a posting here. Many thanks.
    >>> Harlan
    >>> -----
    >> Where are you driving too ?
    >> You dont actually need to drive in London at all
    >> if you are heading north from Dover you can simply
    >> go through the Dartford tunnel and round the orbital
    >> motorway.
    >> Chelmsford is a particularly odd choice in that unless
    >> you are heading for Colchester or Ipswich its rather
    >> out of your way.
    >> If you do want to pick up a car outside London it may be
    >> better to do so at somewhere closer to your destination
    >> but I suspect picking it up in Dover and driving up the
    >> M2 is a reasonable option.
    >> Keith
    > Thank you so much! I had completely forgotten about the Dartford
    > tunnel. Actually I would prefer to pick up the car in Dover so we can
    > spend a few days in the southeast before going to East Anglia. (BTW,
    > when I said that I would pick up the car at Chelmsford, it was just
    > an example of someplace where I could get the car northeastward of
    > London.) You have simplified my task and itinerary substantially.
    > Thanks so much. I will indeed pick up a car at Dover. If we decide to
    > tour the southeast at the end of the trip--we are flying home to the
    > U.S. from Gatwick--I can drive straight from Dover on the M2 to
    > Dartford. One thing I must do immediately on arriving in England is
    > buy some current maps. The map I am consulting at the moment shows
    > the segment from Dover past Canterbury as the A2. I have had some
    > grief in past trips when I relied on old maps. I'll not make that
    > mistake again.

"HH" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:XIvzb.213884$Dw6.781747@attbi_s02...
    > The map I am consulting at the moment shows the
    > segment from Dover past Canterbury as the A2. I have had some grief in
past
    > trips when I relied on old maps. I'll not make that mistake again.

Your map is correct. It's the A2 from Dover, past Caterbury. It turns into
the M2 near Faversham then carries onto Gillingham / Gravesend area which
it's back to the A2 again until you get to the junction before the Darford
Crossing [1]. However for most purposes the distinction between A2 and M2 is
not relevant, it's still fast dual carridgeway.

You are right to pick up your car in Dover rather than get a train to
Chelmsford. That has to be mad idea of the week! Train into London and out
again and having to change terminals is not fun.

[1] It's the Darford Crossing rather than Darford tunnel because it's a
bridge going South and two tunnels North. Cost £1 per car each way.

Harlan Hague:
    >> Many thanks for the reply. If I understand correctly, wouldn't I have
    >> to get off the Dover train at Charing Cross station, transfer to the
    >> Circle Line underground, exit at the Liverpool Station, where I would
    >> board the train for Chelmsford?

Keith Anderson:
    > That's exactly it.

No, not exactly. First, it's Liverpool *Street* station. Liverpool is
a whole nother city.

Also, there are two Underground stations serving Charing Cross main line
station -- Charing Cross is near the station's front (where the front of
the train arrives) while Embankment is by the river, near the other end
of the main line station. Circle Line trains run from Embankment station.
I mention this because it's possible that the signs within the main line
station will read "Embankment station" rather than naming specific Under-
ground lines -- I don't remember.

Once at Embankment station, and on the eastbound Circle and District Line
platform, Harlan should watch the changing signs and board only a Circle
Line train -- anything else will not go to Liverpool Street.
--
Mark Brader "People with whole brains, however, dispute
Toronto this claim, and are generally more articulate
[email protected] in expressing their views." -- Gary Larson

My text in this article is in the public domain.

    > No, not exactly. First, it's Liverpool *Street* station. Liverpool
    > is a whole nother city.

Ha. From Stansted airport you can (or at least could) go to either London,
Liverpool St. or Liverpool, Lime St.

I was once sitting on a train at the airport when seconds before it departed
a man practically flung himself onboard. Then as we started to move the
driver anounced "This is the non-stop express to London Liverpool street.".
The air turned blue. I guess he had heard the word Liverpool and just dived
for the train.

Rob