Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
Aug 29th 2003, 5:11 am
#61
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
"Judith Umbria" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain number
> of
> > weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I prefer to use
> them to
> > see lots of places, rather than a few. If I am lucky, and I get to
> retirement
> > in good health, I can go again and take my time.
> > tim
> But what is the point? Walking up to something, looking and leaving is like
> looking at photos. Is it merely to say I was there? Have your pic taken in
> front of it?
> If you want to experience Italy, running by it or driving by it won't do at
> all. Sitting still in a cafe at 10 PM you could get a clue about how
> Italians live. Walking through streets at 7 AM gives you a sense of how
> that place was in say, 1668, before cars. Seeing Boticelli's "Venus Rising"
> or "Primavera" at the Uffizzi was one of the biggest thrills of my first
> trip to Florence. Seeking out neighborhood restaurants off the usual
> tourist trail is definitely worth doing in Italy. Finding a ruined castle
> surrounded by cottages built from the fallen stones is another clue.
But all of these things can be done when moving from town to town!!!!!
Why does one have to stay 7 nights in a place of marginal intererst to
achieve it?
> I worked a few weeks at a time in certain European cities and have a sense
> for those places. Others are a blur of architecture and traffic. I know
> which experience I choose. Even if I had only 80 weeks lifetime vacation
> I'd spend none of it dashing past famous things.
Fine, your free choice, but as I've already said (twice) the post that I
originally replied to, appeared to be critical of the OP for not choosing
this option for himself, rather than respecting his choice and answering the
question asked.
Tim
news:[email protected]...
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain number
> of
> > weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I prefer to use
> them to
> > see lots of places, rather than a few. If I am lucky, and I get to
> retirement
> > in good health, I can go again and take my time.
> > tim
> But what is the point? Walking up to something, looking and leaving is like
> looking at photos. Is it merely to say I was there? Have your pic taken in
> front of it?
> If you want to experience Italy, running by it or driving by it won't do at
> all. Sitting still in a cafe at 10 PM you could get a clue about how
> Italians live. Walking through streets at 7 AM gives you a sense of how
> that place was in say, 1668, before cars. Seeing Boticelli's "Venus Rising"
> or "Primavera" at the Uffizzi was one of the biggest thrills of my first
> trip to Florence. Seeking out neighborhood restaurants off the usual
> tourist trail is definitely worth doing in Italy. Finding a ruined castle
> surrounded by cottages built from the fallen stones is another clue.
But all of these things can be done when moving from town to town!!!!!
Why does one have to stay 7 nights in a place of marginal intererst to
achieve it?
> I worked a few weeks at a time in certain European cities and have a sense
> for those places. Others are a blur of architecture and traffic. I know
> which experience I choose. Even if I had only 80 weeks lifetime vacation
> I'd spend none of it dashing past famous things.
Fine, your free choice, but as I've already said (twice) the post that I
originally replied to, appeared to be critical of the OP for not choosing
this option for himself, rather than respecting his choice and answering the
question asked.
Tim
Aug 29th 2003, 5:15 am
#62
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
"Jenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Judith Umbria" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> I remember sitting on the terrace of our hotel by the Pont du Gard
> sipping coffee and peeling fruit and watching bus loads of folks pull
> up, hop out, take a picture and drive on
>
> we slept with the pont visible from our bed with the moonlight playing
> on it, we hiked across it -- etc etc.
But how do you know that they didn't have an equally idyllic view
where they did eventually stay?
The whole thrust of everyone's replies to me seems to be on the
assumption that they didn't, however my points are made on the
certainty that one does, but that instead of sleeping in one idyllic
place for 7 days you stay in 7 different ones.
Tim
>
> I remember spending a week in Rome with my kids and being nearly run
> down behind the Pantheon as my son and I photographed by 10 mercedes
> benz sedans, each containing 4 Japanese tourists being drive by the
> sights of Rome
>
> A Japanese woman in our Italian class in florence had her parents visit
> -- one day Rome, one day Florence, one day Venice and home
>
> tell me that was a better trip than say 3 days in Florence having their
> daughter show them more than the top two sights
>
> Some people like to move around more quickly. Some people have little
> interest in cultural venues like museums, cathedrals etc. But it is
> hard to imagine anyone getting much more than they would from a video
> tour if they are blasting through places punching their ticket.
>
> the listening to all of the classical music library at 10X seems a good
> analogy
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "Judith Umbria" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> I remember sitting on the terrace of our hotel by the Pont du Gard
> sipping coffee and peeling fruit and watching bus loads of folks pull
> up, hop out, take a picture and drive on
>
> we slept with the pont visible from our bed with the moonlight playing
> on it, we hiked across it -- etc etc.
But how do you know that they didn't have an equally idyllic view
where they did eventually stay?
The whole thrust of everyone's replies to me seems to be on the
assumption that they didn't, however my points are made on the
certainty that one does, but that instead of sleeping in one idyllic
place for 7 days you stay in 7 different ones.
Tim
>
> I remember spending a week in Rome with my kids and being nearly run
> down behind the Pantheon as my son and I photographed by 10 mercedes
> benz sedans, each containing 4 Japanese tourists being drive by the
> sights of Rome
>
> A Japanese woman in our Italian class in florence had her parents visit
> -- one day Rome, one day Florence, one day Venice and home
>
> tell me that was a better trip than say 3 days in Florence having their
> daughter show them more than the top two sights
>
> Some people like to move around more quickly. Some people have little
> interest in cultural venues like museums, cathedrals etc. But it is
> hard to imagine anyone getting much more than they would from a video
> tour if they are blasting through places punching their ticket.
>
> the listening to all of the classical music library at 10X seems a good
> analogy
Aug 29th 2003, 5:17 am
#63
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
"Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain number
> > of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I prefer to use
> > them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>
> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
> speed.
this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price.
7 night in a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
> You are, of course, free to do as you like, but I think that many novice
> travelers (such as perhaps the original poster)
there was nothing to indicate this?
tim
> imagine that the more they
> are able to pack into their schedule, the better their experience will be,
> when in fact that may well not be the case.
>
> miguel
> --
> Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> > I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain number
> > of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I prefer to use
> > them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>
> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
> speed.
this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price.
7 night in a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
> You are, of course, free to do as you like, but I think that many novice
> travelers (such as perhaps the original poster)
there was nothing to indicate this?
tim
> imagine that the more they
> are able to pack into their schedule, the better their experience will be,
> when in fact that may well not be the case.
>
> miguel
> --
> Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Aug 29th 2003, 5:21 am
#64
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
In article <[email protected]>,
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Deep Flayed Mares" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > I also find it hard to imagine doing 3 or 4 hours in a place and having
> > > > even a slight feel for it.
> > >
> > > Why do you need to "get a feel for it"?
> > >
> >
> > That is why many people travel! Not just to click a few sites, but to get a
> > feel for different cultures and places.
>
> I can only repeat what I've already said. This does not require staying
> 7 days in one town, it can be accomplished perfectly adequately (possibly
> more adequately) by visiting 7 towns in the same country/region.
>
> > Otherwise you might as well just look at photos of the place!
>
> This is a ridiculous analogy and not worthy of comment..
>
> >
> > Tim, Your view is a bit perplexing to me. Seriously, for what reason do you
> > travel?
>
> To see places that I have never seen before. I guess this is the same
> as everyone else here. I think that you (and others) have missed the
> point of my arguement. You have a limited number of days to travel to
> places the other side of the world to your home. This is a *fact* and
> my answer is taking account of this FACT!. You cannot just increase
> the number of days that you have available for travelling just so that you
> can spend 7 days in every town (unless you win the lottery) So, you
> have two choices as to how you spend these limited number of days.
> (1) spend those days visiting as many world class sites as possible (my
> view). (2) focus on a small number of large towns and explore them
> intimately for a couple of weeks at a time, which inevitably IMHO
> results in you visiting a lot of places of marginal interest and missing
> out on the close by, world class sites, almost certainly forever, (this
> option seems to be the view of the majority here, a result that I find
> strange).
>
> Note that my comments here are only appliccable to the occasions
> when I am making my once in a lifetime trip to another continent (which
> was the impression given by the OP) and they do not apply to my
> weekend trips to places close to my home wher obvious I take my time.
>
> Tim
you just go for it Tim-o just keep ticking off those "world class sites"
and attractions
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Deep Flayed Mares" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > I also find it hard to imagine doing 3 or 4 hours in a place and having
> > > > even a slight feel for it.
> > >
> > > Why do you need to "get a feel for it"?
> > >
> >
> > That is why many people travel! Not just to click a few sites, but to get a
> > feel for different cultures and places.
>
> I can only repeat what I've already said. This does not require staying
> 7 days in one town, it can be accomplished perfectly adequately (possibly
> more adequately) by visiting 7 towns in the same country/region.
>
> > Otherwise you might as well just look at photos of the place!
>
> This is a ridiculous analogy and not worthy of comment..
>
> >
> > Tim, Your view is a bit perplexing to me. Seriously, for what reason do you
> > travel?
>
> To see places that I have never seen before. I guess this is the same
> as everyone else here. I think that you (and others) have missed the
> point of my arguement. You have a limited number of days to travel to
> places the other side of the world to your home. This is a *fact* and
> my answer is taking account of this FACT!. You cannot just increase
> the number of days that you have available for travelling just so that you
> can spend 7 days in every town (unless you win the lottery) So, you
> have two choices as to how you spend these limited number of days.
> (1) spend those days visiting as many world class sites as possible (my
> view). (2) focus on a small number of large towns and explore them
> intimately for a couple of weeks at a time, which inevitably IMHO
> results in you visiting a lot of places of marginal interest and missing
> out on the close by, world class sites, almost certainly forever, (this
> option seems to be the view of the majority here, a result that I find
> strange).
>
> Note that my comments here are only appliccable to the occasions
> when I am making my once in a lifetime trip to another continent (which
> was the impression given by the OP) and they do not apply to my
> weekend trips to places close to my home wher obvious I take my time.
>
> Tim
you just go for it Tim-o just keep ticking off those "world class sites"
and attractions
Aug 29th 2003, 5:21 am
#65
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
tim <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>
>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>> speed.
> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in Columbia
House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve one's
experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>
>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>> speed.
> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in Columbia
House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve one's
experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Aug 29th 2003, 5:21 am
#66
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 17:21:25 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:
>tim <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>>
>>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>>> speed.
>> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
>> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
>That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in Columbia
>House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve one's
>experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
You're ignoring the possibility of buying 100 CDs and listening
to just a few tracks from each.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>tim <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>>
>>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>>> speed.
>> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
>> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
>That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in Columbia
>House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve one's
>experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
You're ignoring the possibility of buying 100 CDs and listening
to just a few tracks from each.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Aug 29th 2003, 5:33 am
#67
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
In article <[email protected]>,
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Judith Umbria" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > I remember sitting on the terrace of our hotel by the Pont du Gard
> > sipping coffee and peeling fruit and watching bus loads of folks pull
> > up, hop out, take a picture and drive on
> >
> > we slept with the pont visible from our bed with the moonlight playing
> > on it, we hiked across it -- etc etc.
>
> But how do you know that they didn't have an equally idyllic view
> where they did eventually stay?
>
> The whole thrust of everyone's replies to me seems to be on the
> assumption that they didn't, however my points are made on the
> certainty that one does, but that instead of sleeping in one idyllic
> place for 7 days you stay in 7 different ones.
>
> Tim
last time -- spending a sizable chunk of one's time checking in and out
of hotels and moving from place to place increases the unpleasant parts
of travel and reduces the pleasant ones
still no one would deny you the right to hit and run travel --
whateveris fun for you is what you should do
[I am sure that the people on that bus tour had the joy more than once
of being funneled into some tacky souvenir shop for an hour or two so
the company could get kickbacks -- while spending little time at the
places they actually came to see]
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Judith Umbria" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
>
> >
> > I remember sitting on the terrace of our hotel by the Pont du Gard
> > sipping coffee and peeling fruit and watching bus loads of folks pull
> > up, hop out, take a picture and drive on
> >
> > we slept with the pont visible from our bed with the moonlight playing
> > on it, we hiked across it -- etc etc.
>
> But how do you know that they didn't have an equally idyllic view
> where they did eventually stay?
>
> The whole thrust of everyone's replies to me seems to be on the
> assumption that they didn't, however my points are made on the
> certainty that one does, but that instead of sleeping in one idyllic
> place for 7 days you stay in 7 different ones.
>
> Tim
last time -- spending a sizable chunk of one's time checking in and out
of hotels and moving from place to place increases the unpleasant parts
of travel and reduces the pleasant ones
still no one would deny you the right to hit and run travel --
whateveris fun for you is what you should do
[I am sure that the people on that bus tour had the joy more than once
of being funneled into some tacky souvenir shop for an hour or two so
the company could get kickbacks -- while spending little time at the
places they actually came to see]
Aug 29th 2003, 5:33 am
#68
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
In article <[email protected]>,
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Judith Umbria" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain number
> > of
> > > weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I prefer to use
> > them to
> > > see lots of places, rather than a few. If I am lucky, and I get to
> > retirement
> > > in good health, I can go again and take my time.
> > > tim
> >
> >
> > But what is the point? Walking up to something, looking and leaving is like
> > looking at photos. Is it merely to say I was there? Have your pic taken in
> > front of it?
> > If you want to experience Italy, running by it or driving by it won't do at
> > all. Sitting still in a cafe at 10 PM you could get a clue about how
> > Italians live. Walking through streets at 7 AM gives you a sense of how
> > that place was in say, 1668, before cars. Seeing Boticelli's "Venus Rising"
> > or "Primavera" at the Uffizzi was one of the biggest thrills of my first
> > trip to Florence. Seeking out neighborhood restaurants off the usual
> > tourist trail is definitely worth doing in Italy. Finding a ruined castle
> > surrounded by cottages built from the fallen stones is another clue.
>
> But all of these things can be done when moving from town to town!!!!!
> Why does one have to stay 7 nights in a place of marginal intererst to
> achieve it?
because everyone in this thread has advocated 7 nights in Poggi Bonsi
LOL
"tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Judith Umbria" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > "tim" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain number
> > of
> > > weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I prefer to use
> > them to
> > > see lots of places, rather than a few. If I am lucky, and I get to
> > retirement
> > > in good health, I can go again and take my time.
> > > tim
> >
> >
> > But what is the point? Walking up to something, looking and leaving is like
> > looking at photos. Is it merely to say I was there? Have your pic taken in
> > front of it?
> > If you want to experience Italy, running by it or driving by it won't do at
> > all. Sitting still in a cafe at 10 PM you could get a clue about how
> > Italians live. Walking through streets at 7 AM gives you a sense of how
> > that place was in say, 1668, before cars. Seeing Boticelli's "Venus Rising"
> > or "Primavera" at the Uffizzi was one of the biggest thrills of my first
> > trip to Florence. Seeking out neighborhood restaurants off the usual
> > tourist trail is definitely worth doing in Italy. Finding a ruined castle
> > surrounded by cottages built from the fallen stones is another clue.
>
> But all of these things can be done when moving from town to town!!!!!
> Why does one have to stay 7 nights in a place of marginal intererst to
> achieve it?
because everyone in this thread has advocated 7 nights in Poggi Bonsi
LOL
Aug 29th 2003, 5:54 am
#69
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
"Jenn" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > The whole thrust of everyone's replies to me seems to be on the
> > assumption that they didn't, however my points are made on the
> > certainty that one does, but that instead of sleeping in one idyllic
> > place for 7 days you stay in 7 different ones.
> >
> > Tim
>
> last time -- spending a sizable chunk of one's time checking in and out
> of hotels and moving from place to place increases the unpleasant parts
> of travel and reduces the pleasant ones
I have accepted this point, it doesn't however appear to be everyone's
justification for their view.
> still no one would deny you the right to hit and run travel --
> whateveris fun for you is what you should do
>
> [I am sure that the people on that bus tour had the joy more than once
> of being funneled into some tacky souvenir shop for an hour or two so
> the company could get kickbacks -- while spending little time at the
> places they actually came to see]
Not a valid comparison, the OP is not on a tour but making bis own route
(whatever he decides that to be)
Tim
> In article <[email protected]>,
> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >
> > The whole thrust of everyone's replies to me seems to be on the
> > assumption that they didn't, however my points are made on the
> > certainty that one does, but that instead of sleeping in one idyllic
> > place for 7 days you stay in 7 different ones.
> >
> > Tim
>
> last time -- spending a sizable chunk of one's time checking in and out
> of hotels and moving from place to place increases the unpleasant parts
> of travel and reduces the pleasant ones
I have accepted this point, it doesn't however appear to be everyone's
justification for their view.
> still no one would deny you the right to hit and run travel --
> whateveris fun for you is what you should do
>
> [I am sure that the people on that bus tour had the joy more than once
> of being funneled into some tacky souvenir shop for an hour or two so
> the company could get kickbacks -- while spending little time at the
> places they actually came to see]
Not a valid comparison, the OP is not on a tour but making bis own route
(whatever he decides that to be)
Tim
Aug 29th 2003, 8:20 am
#70
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
tim wrote:
: All I said
: was that if someone says that they want to "do europe in 21 days" you
: should respect that and answer with "these are the 20 really good places
: you should try and see" and not try and change the guy's plans with "you
: must spend at least 10 days in X".
You got me wrong there, I did not say that you "must spend x days in y".
Anand seemed to have absolutly no idea what to do, so I just tried to remind
him that there's a lot to see and do everywhere (taking Berlin as example,
and no, I'm not a museum junkie).
To my experience, many people do not have an idea about foreign countries
except the stereotypes seen in some movies. If you plan your trip on this
limited knowledge, expecting not to need more than a few hours in every
place, you surely miss a lot. Some people won't care, others might take
a closer look if you suggest them to do so.
Apart from that: He asked the public, so he shouldn't mind reading the
public's opinions.
Regards,
soenk.e
: All I said
: was that if someone says that they want to "do europe in 21 days" you
: should respect that and answer with "these are the 20 really good places
: you should try and see" and not try and change the guy's plans with "you
: must spend at least 10 days in X".
You got me wrong there, I did not say that you "must spend x days in y".
Anand seemed to have absolutly no idea what to do, so I just tried to remind
him that there's a lot to see and do everywhere (taking Berlin as example,
and no, I'm not a museum junkie).
To my experience, many people do not have an idea about foreign countries
except the stereotypes seen in some movies. If you plan your trip on this
limited knowledge, expecting not to need more than a few hours in every
place, you surely miss a lot. Some people won't care, others might take
a closer look if you suggest them to do so.
Apart from that: He asked the public, so he shouldn't mind reading the
public's opinions.
Regards,
soenk.e
Aug 29th 2003, 8:24 am
#71
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:03:04 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:
>Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> tim <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>>>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>>>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>>>>
>>>>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>>>>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>>>>> speed.
>>>> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
>>>> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
>>> That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in
>>> Columbia House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve
>>> one's experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
>> You're ignoring the possibility of buying 100 CDs and listening
>> to just a few tracks from each.
>Well, to further brutalize the analogy, it's like buying 100 CDs and
>listening to snippets of each that are so short I spend more time with the
>mechanics of changing CDs than actually listening to them.
It can be. But it is not necessarily so.
No tourist can ever stay in one place long enough to really know
it all. So one picks the amount one can do according to one's
needs, desires and resources. So the discussion here is about the
length of stay that meets the original poster's needs, desires
and resources, not yours or mine.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>>> tim <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>>>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>>>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>>>>
>>>>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>>>>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>>>>> speed.
>>>> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
>>>> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
>>> That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in
>>> Columbia House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve
>>> one's experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
>> You're ignoring the possibility of buying 100 CDs and listening
>> to just a few tracks from each.
>Well, to further brutalize the analogy, it's like buying 100 CDs and
>listening to snippets of each that are so short I spend more time with the
>mechanics of changing CDs than actually listening to them.
It can be. But it is not necessarily so.
No tourist can ever stay in one place long enough to really know
it all. So one picks the amount one can do according to one's
needs, desires and resources. So the discussion here is about the
length of stay that meets the original poster's needs, desires
and resources, not yours or mine.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Aug 29th 2003, 8:39 am
#72
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
In article <[email protected]>,
Juliana L Holm <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > everyone should plan the trip to meet their own needs ---
>
> Which is the real answer for the original poster.
BUT presumably he posted because he is inexperienced -- so the real
'answer' from each of us is our best wisdom from our own experience --
he can then reflect more easily on what he really wants to do
Juliana L Holm <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jenn <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > everyone should plan the trip to meet their own needs ---
>
> Which is the real answer for the original poster.
BUT presumably he posted because he is inexperienced -- so the real
'answer' from each of us is our best wisdom from our own experience --
he can then reflect more easily on what he really wants to do
Aug 29th 2003, 9:03 am
#73
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> tim <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>>>
>>>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>>>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>>>> speed.
>>> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
>>> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
>> That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in
>> Columbia House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve
>> one's experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
> You're ignoring the possibility of buying 100 CDs and listening
> to just a few tracks from each.
Well, to further brutalize the analogy, it's like buying 100 CDs and
listening to snippets of each that are so short I spend more time with the
mechanics of changing CDs than actually listening to them.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> [email protected] (Miguel Cruz) wrote:
>> tim <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> "Miguel Cruz" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> "tim" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>> I'm realistic, as I pointed out at the start, I only have a certain
>>>>> number of weeks 'available' in my life-time for overseas travel, I
>>>>> prefer to use them to see lots of places, rather than a few.
>>>>
>>>> I only have a limited number of hours to listen to music, but that doesn't
>>>> mean I'm going to buy up every CD in the store and listen to them all at 10x
>>>> speed.
>>> this is a different point. 100 CDs costs 100 times the price. 7 night in
>>> a hotel costs the same whether it is all in the same hotel or not
>> That wasn't really relevant to my point. Substitute a membership in
>> Columbia House record club. The issue is more about trying to improve
>> one's experience by cramming greater volume into a fixed period of time.
> You're ignoring the possibility of buying 100 CDs and listening
> to just a few tracks from each.
Well, to further brutalize the analogy, it's like buying 100 CDs and
listening to snippets of each that are so short I spend more time with the
mechanics of changing CDs than actually listening to them.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
Aug 29th 2003, 9:25 am
#74
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
On Fri, 29 Aug 2003 21:52:14 GMT, [email protected] (Miguel Cruz)
wrote:
>Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No tourist can ever stay in one place long enough to really know
>> it all. So one picks the amount one can do according to one's
>> needs, desires and resources. So the discussion here is about the
>> length of stay that meets the original poster's needs, desires
>> and resources, not yours or mine.
>That's correct.
>If I worked at Home Depot and someone came in and said "Hi, I'm building a
>deck, and I need to know the best kind of hammer to buy to pound in the
>screws," I think it would be fair for me to suggest the purchase of a
>screwdriver instead.
Do you really equate his travel plans with using the wrong tool?
is this because the CCD analogy failed?
>Now it is entirely possible that this person is like Tim and has a specific
>reason why it makes sense to use a hammer. But more likely, they just don't
>know any better. Based on what little I know of their needs, that seems to
>be the case. I could be wrong.
Your analogy sucks swampwater. Travel is a far different thing
than building a deck. And you won't last long at Home Depot if
you make the customer feel like a fool.
I agree that by asking here he has left himself open to a wide
variety of suggestions and opinions, but somewhere one has to
realize that one's own reasons for doing travel a certain way are
one's own reasons.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
wrote:
>Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
>> No tourist can ever stay in one place long enough to really know
>> it all. So one picks the amount one can do according to one's
>> needs, desires and resources. So the discussion here is about the
>> length of stay that meets the original poster's needs, desires
>> and resources, not yours or mine.
>That's correct.
>If I worked at Home Depot and someone came in and said "Hi, I'm building a
>deck, and I need to know the best kind of hammer to buy to pound in the
>screws," I think it would be fair for me to suggest the purchase of a
>screwdriver instead.
Do you really equate his travel plans with using the wrong tool?
is this because the CCD analogy failed?
>Now it is entirely possible that this person is like Tim and has a specific
>reason why it makes sense to use a hammer. But more likely, they just don't
>know any better. Based on what little I know of their needs, that seems to
>be the case. I could be wrong.
Your analogy sucks swampwater. Travel is a far different thing
than building a deck. And you won't last long at Home Depot if
you make the customer feel like a fool.
I agree that by asking here he has left himself open to a wide
variety of suggestions and opinions, but somewhere one has to
realize that one's own reasons for doing travel a certain way are
one's own reasons.
************* DAVE HATUNEN ([email protected]) *************
* Tucson Arizona, out where the cacti grow *
* My typos & mispellings are intentional copyright traps *
Aug 29th 2003, 9:52 am
#75
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Planning Europe trip (July 2004)
Hatunen <[email protected]> wrote:
> No tourist can ever stay in one place long enough to really know
> it all. So one picks the amount one can do according to one's
> needs, desires and resources. So the discussion here is about the
> length of stay that meets the original poster's needs, desires
> and resources, not yours or mine.
That's correct.
If I worked at Home Depot and someone came in and said "Hi, I'm building a
deck, and I need to know the best kind of hammer to buy to pound in the
screws," I think it would be fair for me to suggest the purchase of a
screwdriver instead.
Now it is entirely possible that this person is like Tim and has a specific
reason why it makes sense to use a hammer. But more likely, they just don't
know any better. Based on what little I know of their needs, that seems to
be the case. I could be wrong.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
> No tourist can ever stay in one place long enough to really know
> it all. So one picks the amount one can do according to one's
> needs, desires and resources. So the discussion here is about the
> length of stay that meets the original poster's needs, desires
> and resources, not yours or mine.
That's correct.
If I worked at Home Depot and someone came in and said "Hi, I'm building a
deck, and I need to know the best kind of hammer to buy to pound in the
screws," I think it would be fair for me to suggest the purchase of a
screwdriver instead.
Now it is entirely possible that this person is like Tim and has a specific
reason why it makes sense to use a hammer. But more likely, they just don't
know any better. Based on what little I know of their needs, that seems to
be the case. I could be wrong.
miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu
