Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
Jun 25th 2005, 6:48 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:45:14 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Martin writes:
>> but not all.
>True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
without applying.
--
Martin
wrote:
>Martin writes:
>> but not all.
>True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
without applying.
--
Martin
Jun 25th 2005, 7:16 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On 25/06/05 20:39, in article [email protected],
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> There's no way I could get a government job. Most of them require
> French nationality.
Nope, even before the EU, a fair % of the CNRS were non-French. I was
hired as an American in 1974, at that time about 10% were non-French
Next, later a special situation was set up for CNRS scientists (in the
19880s), one could become a fonctionnaire, which did normally require French
citizenship.
Before all CNRS scientists were contractuelles. That latter status meant you
were be hired for one year periods, normally renewed. However, I insisted
that that be over ridden in 1977 because I was not going to give up
a tenured faculty position in the University of California for renewable
(maybe) one year contracts. Also that time a Harvard professor was hired
into the University of Paris, which supposedly was not possible. He
also was a non-citizen. Eventually those who selected fonctionnaire
status ("titularisation") had all the rights of a regular fonctionnaire
(namely, we could not be fired and we had special retirement status).
Anyway now EU citizens can apply for French civil service jobs. In my lab
we hired a some Germans, Spanish and Italians. Thankfully they all speak
French, which although not required (except for teaching) is convenient.
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> There's no way I could get a government job. Most of them require
> French nationality.
Nope, even before the EU, a fair % of the CNRS were non-French. I was
hired as an American in 1974, at that time about 10% were non-French
Next, later a special situation was set up for CNRS scientists (in the
19880s), one could become a fonctionnaire, which did normally require French
citizenship.
Before all CNRS scientists were contractuelles. That latter status meant you
were be hired for one year periods, normally renewed. However, I insisted
that that be over ridden in 1977 because I was not going to give up
a tenured faculty position in the University of California for renewable
(maybe) one year contracts. Also that time a Harvard professor was hired
into the University of Paris, which supposedly was not possible. He
also was a non-citizen. Eventually those who selected fonctionnaire
status ("titularisation") had all the rights of a regular fonctionnaire
(namely, we could not be fired and we had special retirement status).
Anyway now EU citizens can apply for French civil service jobs. In my lab
we hired a some Germans, Spanish and Italians. Thankfully they all speak
French, which although not required (except for teaching) is convenient.
Jun 25th 2005, 7:18 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On 25/06/05 20:40, in article [email protected],
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Are you sure? If I remember correctly, Federal workers in the U.S.
> don't have to pay Social Security.
They pay into their own system. Same thing in France. However our
retirement contributions were in excess of the French SS payments,
but our payout is a lot better.
In the US I opted to pay both in to US SS and University retirement
and I collect on both now.
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Are you sure? If I remember correctly, Federal workers in the U.S.
> don't have to pay Social Security.
They pay into their own system. Same thing in France. However our
retirement contributions were in excess of the French SS payments,
but our payout is a lot better.
In the US I opted to pay both in to US SS and University retirement
and I collect on both now.
Jun 25th 2005, 7:22 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On 25/06/05 20:45, in article [email protected],
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
If you are American you don't fall under the EU rules. Then is takes
a special situation to get hired as an American. I was hired as
an American into a French lab, no particular problem. But it does
require some preparation. I had spent a year postdocing in this
lab, another year sabbatical and I had published maybe 10 articles
with the lab's name on them. So I had the lab mostly behind
me except those who thought my being hired would interfere with
their own promotion.
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
If you are American you don't fall under the EU rules. Then is takes
a special situation to get hired as an American. I was hired as
an American into a French lab, no particular problem. But it does
require some preparation. I had spent a year postdocing in this
lab, another year sabbatical and I had published maybe 10 articles
with the lab's name on them. So I had the lab mostly behind
me except those who thought my being hired would interfere with
their own promotion.
Jun 25th 2005, 7:27 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On 25/06/05 20:48, in article [email protected],
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:45:14 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Martin writes:
>>
>>> but not all.
>>
>> True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
>
> without applying.
To be honest it might take some "piston".
I have seen Americans hired into French labs besides myself. One actually
was a student I knew. He had been working on cancer drugs after his
doctorate and had the profile a lab in Toulouse needed and wanted.
So they hired him.
International science is nearly wide open. But you just don't knock on the
door and say "I am here".
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:45:14 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>> Martin writes:
>>
>>> but not all.
>>
>> True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
>
> without applying.
To be honest it might take some "piston".
I have seen Americans hired into French labs besides myself. One actually
was a student I knew. He had been working on cancer drugs after his
doctorate and had the profile a lab in Toulouse needed and wanted.
So they hired him.
International science is nearly wide open. But you just don't knock on the
door and say "I am here".
Jun 25th 2005, 8:07 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On Sat, 25 Jun 2005 20:45:14 +0200, Mxsmanic <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Martin writes:
>> but not all.
>True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
Because:
1. You are lazy
2. You are given money from other people
3. You are convinced you would never get it
4. You have not urge to dig yourself out of the hole you're in.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
wrote:
>Martin writes:
>> but not all.
>True, but I still couldn't get such a job.
Because:
1. You are lazy
2. You are given money from other people
3. You are convinced you would never get it
4. You have not urge to dig yourself out of the hole you're in.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Jun 25th 2005, 9:13 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
Earl Evleth writes:
> To be honest it might take some "piston".
Just about any decent job in France requires "piston." Qualifications
alone are not important.
--
Transpose gmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> To be honest it might take some "piston".
Just about any decent job in France requires "piston." Qualifications
alone are not important.
--
Transpose gmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 26th 2005, 6:18 am
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On 25/06/05 23:13, in article [email protected],
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Earl Evleth writes:
>
>> To be honest it might take some "piston".
>
> Just about any decent job in France requires "piston." Qualifications
> alone are not important.
Have you any piston now?
"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
> Earl Evleth writes:
>
>> To be honest it might take some "piston".
>
> Just about any decent job in France requires "piston." Qualifications
> alone are not important.
Have you any piston now?
Jun 26th 2005, 7:54 am
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
Earl Evleth writes:
> Have you any piston now?
No, I have never had any. I don't have a particule in my name, I
haven't been to the correct schools, I don't belong to any old-boys
network, I'm not of longstanding French ancestry, I have no highly
placed friends or relatives, and I'm past college age. I do have some
professional qualifications, but those seem to be even less important
than the graphologist's guesses on my handwriting.
I know this is not imagination, as I've discussed the matter with a
great many French people who have spontaneously brought up the same
problems. If you're "pistonné" you can get good jobs easily, even if
you aren't qualified for them; if you aren't, you can barely ever find
any jobs at all, no matter what qualifications you have.
--
Transpose gmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
> Have you any piston now?
No, I have never had any. I don't have a particule in my name, I
haven't been to the correct schools, I don't belong to any old-boys
network, I'm not of longstanding French ancestry, I have no highly
placed friends or relatives, and I'm past college age. I do have some
professional qualifications, but those seem to be even less important
than the graphologist's guesses on my handwriting.
I know this is not imagination, as I've discussed the matter with a
great many French people who have spontaneously brought up the same
problems. If you're "pistonné" you can get good jobs easily, even if
you aren't qualified for them; if you aren't, you can barely ever find
any jobs at all, no matter what qualifications you have.
--
Transpose gmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.
Jun 26th 2005, 11:13 am
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
On 2005-06-25 22:07:26 +0200, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> said:
> Because:
> 1. You are lazy
> 2. You are given money from other people
> 3. You are convinced you would never get it
> 4. You have not urge to dig yourself out of the hole you're in.
Is Mixi still whinging?
Mrs G is looking for a job in Paris. She didn't find one yet, so in the
meantime she is commuting to The Hague. It's not an ideal arrangement,
but at least she isn't begging. Sometimes you have to make choices -
Mixi seems to imagine that he has to be given his ideal job in his
ideal location. Sorry - it doesn't work like that.
G;
--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> said:
> Because:
> 1. You are lazy
> 2. You are given money from other people
> 3. You are convinced you would never get it
> 4. You have not urge to dig yourself out of the hole you're in.
Is Mixi still whinging?
Mrs G is looking for a job in Paris. She didn't find one yet, so in the
meantime she is commuting to The Hague. It's not an ideal arrangement,
but at least she isn't begging. Sometimes you have to make choices -
Mixi seems to imagine that he has to be given his ideal job in his
ideal location. Sorry - it doesn't work like that.
G;
--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG
Jun 26th 2005, 7:29 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: Paris, It's Sale Time till mid July
In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > Why does the government get to decide when a store owner can sell
> > inventory at a discounted price ?
>
> Because it administers a society in which people are accustomed to being
> told what to do by the government. Remember, France is a country in
> which it is still considered a good thing to get a lifetime job as a
> clerk in the civil service; the private sector is considered suspect
> (just the opposite of the U.S.).
Well a lot of Frenchmen who've spent time in the US chide Americans for
being too like Germans. Too ordered, subservient, etc.
They believed Americans and French had affinity for revolutions, clutch
copies of Billy Budd and are disappointed by the reality, which is a
nation caught up in consumption.
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig writes:
>
> > Why does the government get to decide when a store owner can sell
> > inventory at a discounted price ?
>
> Because it administers a society in which people are accustomed to being
> told what to do by the government. Remember, France is a country in
> which it is still considered a good thing to get a lifetime job as a
> clerk in the civil service; the private sector is considered suspect
> (just the opposite of the U.S.).
Well a lot of Frenchmen who've spent time in the US chide Americans for
being too like Germans. Too ordered, subservient, etc.
They believed Americans and French had affinity for revolutions, clutch
copies of Billy Budd and are disappointed by the reality, which is a
nation caught up in consumption.
