EvelynVogtGamble

Anonymouse wrote:

    >
    >> So you are telling me that ALL levels of management up the line are
    >> given you a stamp of approval for this conduct?
    >
    >
    > Hi,
    >
    > I've been in departmental staff meetings when someone would check to
    > make sure it was "OK" with everybody (including management) that they'd
    > be sick on day x.

Exactly! (They really SHOULD simply call it "personal time
off", but antiquated terminology dies hard.) Most employers
realize their employees sometimes have personal business
(including but not limited to doctor's and dentist's
appointments) which simply MUST be taken care of during
"normal" business hours. The "sick leave" allows them to do
so without loss of pay.

EvelynVogtGamble

Rod Speed wrote:

    > Anonymouse <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    >>>So you are telling me that ALL levels of management up the line are given you
    >>>a stamp of approval for this conduct?
    >
    >
    >>I've been in departmental staff meetings when someone would check to make sure
    >>it was "OK" with everybody (including management) that they'd be sick on day
    >>x.
    >
    >
    > Absolutely classic example of an operation that needs a good bomb under it.

No need to ask which of the various cross-posted groups YOU
come from. (Jerk!!!)

Rk

Merry Christmas wrote:

    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
    >
    > > I remember clearly when one employer stopped that
    >> practice and instead announced that we would receive a set number of
    >> days "sick leave" (which could be used as we chose).
    >
    > Was it still officially called "sick leave"?
    > I thought it was a normal practice for companies to start combining sick
    > leave and personal leave into a benefit called something like "flexible
    > time off" or "paid time off".

One employer I worked for had that, I don't recall what it was called, but it
wasn't sick time.

But combining sick days and vacation into a common pool is a horrible idea.
You wind up with people who are sick and would normally stay home coming in to
work, so as not to waste vacation days, and would get other people sick.

All employers that I am aware of allow one to carry over sick and vacation
time to future years, although a lot of times the maximum rollover allowance
is capped. On the order of like 900 hours.

--
rk

Richard Steiner

Here in rec.travel.air,
Not the Karl Orff <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > D T <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> I get four weeks every year, plus holidays, plus sick benefits
    >Ya must be a tax dollar-sucking government worker then

Not really. I'd have four weeks now myself if I hadn't been laid off
from my programming position at NWA (the fourth week comes at the start
of the 9th year), and at my new position I have three weeks plus five
"personal days" (which amounts to almost the same thing).

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Richard Steiner

Here in rec.travel.air, Icono Clast <[email protected]> spake unto us, saying:

    >The Real Bev wrote:
    >> Many people in the US actually find their employment enjoyable,
    >> rewarding, and FUN.
    >I'm one. Couldn't wait t'get t'work.

I loved my work when I was with an airline, and I love my current jopb
as well. Of course, they haven't put me on the support rotation yet...

--
-Rich Steiner >>>---> http://www.visi.com/~rsteiner >>>---> Smyrna, GA USA
OS/2 + eCS + Linux + Win95 + DOS + PC/GEOS + Executor = PC Hobbyist Heaven!
WARNING: I've seen FIELDATA FORTRAN V and I know how to use it!
The Theorem Theorem: If If, Then Then.

Rod Speed

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Rod Speed wrote:
    >> Anonymouse <[email protected]> wrote in
    >> message news:[email protected]...
    >>>>So you are telling me that ALL levels of management up the line are given
    >>>>you a stamp of approval for this conduct?
    >>>I've been in departmental staff meetings when someone would check to make
    >>>sure it was "OK" with everybody (including management) that they'd be sick on
    >>>day x.
    >> Absolutely classic example of an operation that needs a good bomb under it.
    > No need to ask which of the various cross-posted groups YOU come from.
    > (Jerk!!!)

No one cares which one you come from, ****WIT.

Rod Speed

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Anonymouse wrote:
    >>> So you are telling me that ALL levels of management up the line are
    >>> given you a stamp of approval for this conduct?
    >> Hi,
    >> I've been in departmental staff meetings when someone would check to make
    >> sure it was "OK" with everybody (including management) that they'd be sick on
    >> day x.
    > Exactly! (They really SHOULD simply call it "personal time off", but
    > antiquated terminology dies hard.) Most employers realize their employees
    > sometimes have personal business (including but not limited to doctor's and
    > dentist's appointments) which simply MUST be taken care of during "normal"
    > business hours. The "sick leave" allows them to do so without loss of pay.

Plenty with a clue arent stupid enough to use sick leave
for that, they just use an informal system where the
individual makes up the time they take off in normal
business hours without bothering with the paperwork, fool.

And plenty who do put in more time than they are legally
required to do, get to take time off for that sort of thing
without even needing to make up that time too.

Suzn

"john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > So if you are NOT sick, it is OK to fake it because it is YOURS.

Sure!

    > That must ease your conscience. Good rationalizing.
You honestly believe that a person who has worked for a company for 25+
years is going to go to hell for using 5 sick days a year for some personal
time? I doubt there'd be much sleep loss......

    > Is it OK for you to spend many hours a week on the company computer on
    > personal business?

I dunno....I dont use the computer where I work.

Suzn

"john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Do you understand the definition of sick pay?
    > It is pay for your absence when you are ill.


Ok.... so you miss day of work and take a day of sick leave coz you are sick
of working.
Better?

Suzn

"john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Neither do you get paid for it when you retire or quit.

Nor do you get paid vacation or sick leave in that case either.
So what's your point?

Rod Speed

suzn <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:AsMwd.279378$R05.236209@attbi_s53...
    > john <[email protected]> wrote

    >> Neither do you get paid for it when you retire or quit.

    > Nor do you get paid vacation or sick leave in that case either.

You mostly do get the paid vacation time thats not been used.

Rod Speed

"suzn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:VpMwd.212692$V41.71030@attbi_s52...
    > "john" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Do you understand the definition of sick pay?
    >> It is pay for your absence when you are ill.
    > Ok.... so you miss day of work and take a day of sick leave coz you are sick
    > of working.
    > Better?

Nope, just as stupid/silly.

The Real Bev

Go Fig wrote:
    >
    > The Real Bev <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > john wrote:
    > > >
    > > > Arri London <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > >The Real Bev wrote:
    > > > >>
    > > > >> Magda wrote:
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > John wrote :
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > ... Most workers in the US are lucky if they get 2 weeks a year
    > > > >> > ... vacation (except for government workers).
    > > > >>
    > > > >> And union workers, who are generally the same people.
    > > > >>
    > > > >> > ... After a number of years, workers get a third or fourth week of
    > > > >> > ... vacation.
    > > > >> > ...
    > > > >> > ... The ironic thing is that many workers CAN'T get permission from
    > > > >> > ... management to TAKE the vacation.
    > > > >> >
    > > > >> > Are you saying it's not a right, but a privilege ??
    > > > >>
    > > > >> There is no law requiring that employees be given vacation. Most
    > > > >> companies do because it's expected, but few places are truly generous.
    > > > >> Some companies that offer vacations insist that it be taken or lost
    > > > >> rather than accumulated into huge chunks. If management deems your
    > > > >> presence too important to be allowed to take vacation before it's lost,
    > > > >> it would seem only proper to allow that amount to roll over to the next
    > > > >> period, but I don't think that's a requirement either. In California it
    > > > >> used to be required that employees were vested in their earned vacation,
    > > > >> but perhaps it's different now if it must be used or lost.
    > > > >>
    > > > >> When I was canned after 12 years I was paid for my accumulated unused
    > > > >> vacation, but the 700+ hours of unused sick leave evaporated.
    > > >
    > > > I can never understand why people are chagrined when they retire or
    > > > get laid off and they DON"T get paid for their accrued sick leave.
    > > >
    > > > Why do they think they are entitled to the money?
    > > >
    > > > If they got sick while they were working they should get paid.
    > >
    > > Because they know perfectly well that others take "mental health" days
    > > which they never had either the time or the willingness to do. You feel
    > > like you've gotten screwed for being honest, never a good feeling.
    > >
    > > Among my tasks was tracking sick leave and vacation to make sure that
    > > nobody got paid after they'd run out of either. Amazing how many people
    > > accumulated their vacation time but never accumulated more than a few
    > > days of sick time -- and dang, they sure acted healthy.
    > >
    > > Yeah, I'm bitter. During the last year when each workday was a running
    > > battle between me and the boss I inherited, I started taking one sick
    > > day a week to go skiing. I still lost way more time than I could use,
    > > and I regard myself as having been stupid rather than virtuous.
    > >
    > > > In the US, I know people who get, for example, 10 days sick leave a
    > > > year. If you don't use by the end of the calendar year, you lose the
    > > > sick leave. These people will fake sickness near the end of the year
    > > > just to use up the sick leave. Real ethical people, I would say.
    > >
    > > Following the example of our government, wherein each section thereof
    > > hurries to spend the last of its allocation so its budget will not be
    > > reduced in the following year.
    > >
    > > I no longer regard the use of sick leave by the healthy as unethical.
    > > When you can get "downsized" at the drop of a hat, loyalty becomes
    > > meaningless.
    >
    > What about employes who quit without any notice ?

I'd be willing to bet that far more long-term employees are notified of
their layoff on Friday afternoon than give notice likewise.

A company only hires an employee when they can make more from that
employee's work than they have to pay for it. If somebody quits without
notice, the company loses its profit from his work but it doesn't starve
to death.

When I was an HR puke I noticed that very few people quit without giving
2 weeks notice and people who were laid off (even when they should have
been fired) were given 2 weeks pay in lieu of notice. That was back in
the old days when decent people figured they should stay in a job for at
least a year before quitting for greener pastures and companies didn't
want to fire people for fear of EEO lawsuits and because they figured
they might need to actually KEEP those people. The concept of instant
downsizing has changed all that. Real shame, but there it is.

    > > > >> Many people in the US actually find their employment enjoyable,
    > > > >> rewarding, and FUN. Isn't it that way in Europe?
    > > > >
    > > > >Yes they also find their work enjoyable rewarding and fun. The statutory
    > > > >vacation time is in addition to that.
    > > > >Most of the universities in which I've worked in the US allowed some
    > > > >percentage of unused sick leave to be added to vacation time, but yes
    > > > >the rest disappeared.
    > >
    > > The only sensible thing is to use it up. Don't be grossly obvious about
    > > it, though, there IS a certain protocol to follow or else people start
    > > to get uneasy. Cough when you call in sick in the morning, or the
    > > previous evening if you can leave a message on the company answering
    > > machine. Make the excuse at least fairly believable. Tell the lie
    > > yourself, don't make others lie for you.

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ===============
"There's an apocryphal (I hope not !) story about a Bristol bike
thief found cold, wet and bedraggled one morning, D locked by the
neck to a local bridge." -- Anon

The Real Bev

tm wrote:
    >
    > john wrote:
    > > The Real Bev wrote:
    >
    > > >I no longer regard the use of sick leave by the healthy as unethical.
    > > >When you can get "downsized" at the drop of a hat, loyalty becomes
    > > >meaningless.
    > >
    > > Excellent rationalizing of your work situation.
    > >
    > > Care to share with us some more examples of your ethical behavior?
    >
    > I always ask myself, "What would jeebus do?" And then i just laugh and
    > laugh and go on usenet and screech about ethics.

Damn, don't I know you from somewhere?

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ===============
"There's an apocryphal (I hope not !) story about a Bristol bike
thief found cold, wet and bedraggled one morning, D locked by the
neck to a local bridge." -- Anon

The Real Bev

"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" wrote:
    >
    > Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >
    > > john <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>In the US, I know people who get, for example, 10 days sick leave a
    > >>year. If you don't use by the end of the calendar year, you lose the
    > >>sick leave. These people will fake sickness near the end of the year
    > >>just to use up the sick leave. Real ethical people, I would say.
    >
    > Correction: We don't "fake" ANYTHING! If we have been
    > fortunate enough not to need the time for illness during a
    > given year, we quite openly "play sick" (we make no secret
    > of the fact we're not really ill) to use those days before
    > we lose them. It's not a matter of "ethics", since our
    > employers are perfectly aware of the practice, and accept
    > it. (Using "sick days" as additional vacation makes up for
    > the times we must dip into our vacation time when the sick
    > leave allowance proves inadequate for genuine illness.)

Not to mention the uncompensated hours worked by exempt employees who
aren't really paid all that managerially after all. Moreover, serious
people take "sick" days when it won't inconvenience the
organization...much.

    > > I have had multiple supervisors in the USA encourage me to do exactly that.
    > >
    > > miguel

--
Cheers,
Bev
================================================== ===============
"There's an apocryphal (I hope not !) story about a Bristol bike
thief found cold, wet and bedraggled one morning, D locked by the
neck to a local bridge." -- Anon