Hi,

I am also thinking of enrolling in a program of this type. I am older, already
graduated from college and not at all interested in college credit. I would be doing
it purely to learn French.

Could anyone tell me... for someone starting basically from zero, what level of
proficiency can you achieve in 3 weeks to a month in one of the intensive programs?

Can you get to the point where you can function in French? For example, after
completing the program suppose you listen to a typical conversation between two
native speakers? Can you understand it? Most of it? What percentage? Could you watch
a French movie and understand it?

The reason I asked is that I took college courses in both German and Japanese ...but
I only stuck it out for a couple of semesters. I got As in the classes but never
achieved any real proficiency. I sort of came to the conclusion that you have to goto
the country and study more intensively to learn the language.

Any thoughts of which program might be best for someone like me?

Thanks!

marty

    > > I was pleased with my experience with Accent International, which offers the
    > > Cours de Civilisation Française de la Sorbonne. It was one of the better values
    > > that I found in my research. In general, a four week program will run from about
    > > $2,500 to $6,000, not including airfare. The Accent program was under $3,000. If
    > > you want to travel before or after the program, you might be able to get a
    > > student airfare that doesn't have a 30 day stay restriction for the same price or
    > > less than normal fares.
    > >
    > > http://www.accentintl.com http://www.counciltravel.com
    > >
    > > The guided educational tours and outings were the best part the Accent program. I
    > > experienced much more than I would've as an independent tourist. By touring
    > > Europe before and after the program, I had the time to do the tourist stuff too.
    > > Another advantage of this program is that you will get a special student ID card
    > > (regardless of your age) that permits you to enter many museums free of cost or
    > > for a very nominal fee as an "Art History" student. A regular student ID or ISIC
    > > card doesn't provide this same benefit.
    > >
    > > The only problem I had was with noisy students from Spain who crammed into their
    > > dormrooms from midnight til dawn partying at Cité Universitaire. I had a private
    > > single room, but the walls were thin and the tiled corridors carried noise like
    > > an amplifier. All of the other international students were very courteous, and
    > > likewise were disturbed by the noise, but the spaniards couldn't care less. I
    > > guess this must be one of the few situations in which Americans weren't the
    > > loudest and most obnoxious on the block. Unfortunately, Accent doesn't directly
    > > run the dorms, so they couldn't due much to solve this problem, which was
    > > mitigated only because it occurred during a relatively small portion of my stay
    > > (the Spaniards were on a different program schedule).
    > >
    > > Some of the other students in my group weren't very pleased with the Sorbonne
    > > program itself. There is a mandatory placement exam at the Sorbonne in the
    > > beginning of the program which is used to determine the highest class level that
    > > you may attend. The exam is French material that is dictated and requires the
    > > student to transcribe it. Many of the U.S. students with previous French
    > > education did poorly and were placed much lower than they expected. They couldn't
    > > get college credit for the level that they thought they should. I didn't notice
    > > any of the other international students complaining. I think this was due to two
    > > factors. Many U.S. students didn't learn what they were supposed to because the
    > > programs are less rigorous than other countries. Also, dictation and
    > > transcription isn't used very frequently in the U.S., unlike the rest of the
    > > world, apparently. In other words, I think that some of my fellow students were
    > > just a bunch of whiners who didn't know what they should've, but wanted the
    > > credit anyways. If you're going into the program as a novice, this doesn't
    > > matter, because you'll be placed in an introductory course no matter what. As a
    > > novice though, you'll still be required to take the test because in France, rules
    > > are rules, so you'll be handing in a blank paper with just your name on it.
    > > Consider it your first cultural "experience."
    > >
    > > There was another cultural "experience" that student's complained about. One of
    > > the French female instructors in the phonetics lab was from the "old school"
    > > educational method. Some of the U.S. students weren't very pleased with her
    > > "school marm" style. I was perfectly happy with my instructor and when I observed
    > > the one who they were bitching about, I think they were just a bunch of spoiled
    > > brats that could use some good lecturing from a teacher who might drill some real
    > > knowledge into their thick sculls. Nobody got their knuckles rapped, so they
    > > didn't even realize she was being very easy on them. <Grin>
    > >
    > > Some students were also shocked that the instructors taught the class entirely in
    > > French. <gasp - the horror of it>. Somehow, this wasn't a problem for the other
    > > students.
    > >
    > > Accent has no control over the Sorbonne program, so that's the nature of it. The
    > > Sorbonne has the name and prestige to do whatever it wants. Although it was hard
    > > work, I'm proud to have my certificate in elementary French from the Sorbonne. I
    > > received the college credit that I expected from my local U.S. University.
    > > Everything under Accent's control seemed to be well managed and I was surprised
    > > that so few logistical problems occurred.
    > >
    > > I will probably due another course of study in Paris in the future.
    >
    > JQuick, Thanks for the memories. I attended the Alliance Francaise twice and had
    > some parallel experiences. Though the AF is reportedly more informal than the
    > Sorbonne, the AF allowed me to enroll on the spot even before I could say oui.
    > After three weeks of the intensive course I was speaking French. A French girl who
    > acted as mentor/tutor and a tape recorder were great helpers. I would recommend two
    > months if you can manage it. After pounding the pavement I found reasonable hotels
    > nearby and later found a fully furnished studio where I stayed for a few months. I
    > hosted parties in my little pad, and it seemed that someone in our class had a
    > party every weekend. For rooms, register at the AF housing office, and also check
    > the bulletin boards at Shakespeare and Company and the American Church (Metro
    > Alma). But be prepared for a shock; student quarters in Paris are worse than
    > anything you've seen in the movies. One other thing, lunches at the Alliance
    > Francaise were much better than the slop at the Sorbonne where a group of us went,
    > once and never again. Just do it, Just Joan. You'll always have Paris.

"MF" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hi,
    >
    > I am also thinking of enrolling in a program of this type. I am older, already
    > graduated from college and not at all interested in college credit. I would be
    > doing it purely to learn French.

If you don't mind my asking, what do you mean by "older"? Both a 30 year old and a 70
year old have typically finished with college but the 30 y/o will typically have a
much easier time picking up a foreign language.

    > Could anyone tell me... for someone starting basically from zero, what level of
    > proficiency can you achieve in 3 weeks to a month in one of the intensive programs?

Short answer: It depends.

    > Can you get to the point where you can function in French? For example, after
    > completing the program suppose you listen to a typical conversation between two
    > native speakers? Can you understand it? Most of it? What percentage? Could you
    > watch a French movie and understand it?

Maybe. Probably not. Parts. Nope. Maybe 20%. Perhaps if it's a French dub of
something you've already seen in English.

For what it's worth, I spent a month learning Spanish in Mexico last summer. I
already had 2 years of university Spanish under my belt when I got there, so I don't
know if my first hand experiences will be of much use to you, but I met some
Australians there who were pretty much in the situation as you describe -- zero
knowledge from the get-go and one month to learn (four hours of courses per weekday).
Assuming you pick up French at the same rate that they picked up Spanish, after a
month you will have little to no clue what is being said when two locals are having a
conversation at a normal rate, but you will basically have a French phrasebook
engraved in your memory coupled with a passable ability to understand answers to
basic questions like "where is the...?" etc and get across basic ideas like "i'm
hungry" "i like to dance". Basically any simple Subject-verb-object type sentence
assuming you have a good dictionary with you.

    > The reason I asked is that I took college courses in both German and Japanese
    > ...but I only stuck it out for a couple of semesters. I got As in the classes but
    > never achieved any real proficiency. I sort of came to the conclusion that you have
    > to goto the country and study more intensively to learn the language.
    >
    > Any thoughts of which program might be best for someone like me?

Sorry, I'm from Montreal and learned my French here so I haven't the first clue about
French schools in France. The best advice I can give you is to find a school that
offers intensive programs (~4 hrs/day) with small classes (~3 students/class) outside
of class once your homework is done, immerse yourself in the language. Buy a
newspaper, see how much you can understand, try and talk to the locals, whatever. As
for actual schools in France, search the web. That's what I did when I was trying to
figure out where to go to fix up my Spanish.

Richard

In article <[email protected]>, Richard <[email protected]> writes
    >If you don't mind my asking, what do you mean by "older"? Both a 30 year old and a
    >70 year old have typically finished with college but the 30 y/o will typically have
    >a much easier time picking up a foreign language.

Now that rather depends: a 70 year-old linguist will learn much faster than a 30 year
old non-linguist: matter of technique, simply.

M
--
[email protected]

"David Lewis" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, Richard <[email protected]> writes
    > >If you don't mind my asking, what do you mean by "older"? Both a 30 year
old
    > >and a 70 year old have typically finished with college but the 30 y/o
will
    > >typically have a much easier time picking up a foreign language.

    > Now that rather depends: a 70 year-old linguist will learn much faster than a 30
    > year old non-linguist: matter of technique, simply.

http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionar...y&va=typically

Happy reading.

Richard

David Lewis wrote:
    >
    >
    > Now that rather depends: a 70 year-old linguist will learn much faster than a 30
    > year old non-linguist: matter of technique, simply.

Also, aptitude enters into it! Some people, whatever their age, have very quick ears
when it comes to distinguishing the sounds of another language. Others simply don't
HEAR the differences, so are totally incapable of reproducing them. Now, when it
comes to retaining vocabulary, age MAY be a factor, but I'm inclined to think it's
more a matter of motivation, there.

    >
    > M
    > --
    > [email protected]

In article <[email protected]>, Evelyn Vogt Gamble (Divamanque)
<[email protected]> writes

    >I wrote:
    >>
    >>
    >> Now that rather depends: a 70 year-old linguist will learn much
faster
    >> than a 30 year old non-linguist: matter of technique, simply.
    >
    >Also, aptitude enters into it! Some people, whatever their age, have very quick ears
    >when it comes to distinguishing the sounds of another language. Others simply don't
    >HEAR the differences, so are totally incapable of reproducing them. Now, when it
    >comes to retaining vocabulary, age MAY be a factor, but I'm inclined to think it's
    >more a matter of motivation, there.

Yes, but linguists will naturally be more motivated, won't they?

Marie
--
[email protected]