Baldin Pramer

Sam wrote:

    > The French don't like anybody they don't fear.

Who do you men by "the French"? All French people? Some of them? If so,
which ones?

--
Sir Baldin Pramer, S.G.O.R.P.I.A.

Bongo

Well, let's just agree, that Mr. Armstrong was not the biggest ambassador
you could send. His typical American Way of thinking, that he has the right
to comment everything, once again showed the American way failing.
"The Reids" <[email protected]> skrev i en meddelelse
news:[email protected]...
    > Following up to Sam
    > >"**** France" and "**** Chirac" T-shirts are not in style here
    > The US equivalent is not in style here either.
    > Have you been to Europe?
    > --
    > Mike Reid
    > If god wanted us to be vegetarians he wouldn't have made animals out of
meat.
    > Wasdale-Lake district-Thames path-London "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <--
you can email us@ this site
    > Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a
spamtrap

Tim Challenger

On 23 Jul 2004 06:32:45 -0700, PJ O'Donovan wrote:

    > [email protected] (Bobby Fischler) wrote in message news:<[email protected]. com>...
    >> http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/18138.htm
    >>
    >> July 22, 2004 -- Asinine German cycling fans harassed five-time Tour
    >> de France champion Lance Armstrong during yesterday's grueling ride
    >> though the French Alps ? two of the "idiots" spat on him, and another
    >> spectator chased him while wearing a "F - - - Bush" T-shirt. By the
    >> end of the day, of course, the spit on Armstrong was exchanged for a
    >> bath of champagne, thanks to the Texan's time-trial victory.
    >> But the win did not erase what had happened.
    >>
    >> "I don't think it's safe," said Armstrong
    >>
    >> That sentiment was captured in a roadside sign last week that read,
    >> "Lance Go Home."
    >>
    >> As a result, Armstrong has bodyguards during the three-week race.
    >>
    >> "Nothing against the French, but in France, they're after us,"
    >> Armstrong said.
    >
    > So, what is new?

And as the article implies, they were Germans. So where's all this French
bashing come from?

Ah yes, silly me, bigots.

--
Tim C.

Mimi

"doctor scrumpy" <member7547@british_expats.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    >................................................. ..........................
........................... UK
    > is and will always be a Christian nation. But I know in less than 35
    > years the US will be predominantly Hispanic..Bring on El Presidente !
Most Hispanics, in the US and elsewhere, consider themselves Christian. Or
don't you count Catholics?

Marianne

Malev

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 01:38:10 +0000 (UTC), Valiant <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >> I am going to France next summer, and as usual, I have nothing to fear.
    >> French people don't hate Americans, but they do hate self righteous
    >> jingoists.
    >Oh yeah, I guess that's why so many of them spike tourist food and put
    >"Americans Go Home" signs on their windows.

You are a ****ing idiot.

Jeremy Henderson

On Mon, 26 Jul 2004 01:20:06 -0700, Sam wrote:

    > Spend more time looking in the mirror instead of over here. You know,
    > get the beam out of your eye instead of trying to pick the speck out
    > of ours. What's this obsession with America over there? Get a life.
    >
    > Sam

What are you yapping about? Your reply to my posting about crowd safety
at footbal games is, to say the least, a non sequitur.

J;

--
Encrypted e-mail address. Click to mail me:
http://cerbermail.com/?nKYh3qN4YG

P J Wallace

To follow your style of argument - can it be a coincidence that your
posting name is so close to another well-known lunatic and conspiracy
theorist?

On 25 Jul 2004 12:43:17 -0700, [email protected] (Bobby
Fischler) wrote:
    >Bush and his group know France will be an Islamic Republic in about 25
    >years along with Holland, Belgium and Spain. Spain already
    >surrendered. Book publishers in the UK refuse to publish books even
    >mildly critical of Islamic fascism. Political parties critical of
    >IslamoFascism in the UK are essentially being put out of business.
    >The UK will fall in 35 years to Islam followed by Germany. Most of
    >western European welfare state and the EU will collapse with the
    >growth of Islam.

Jenn

Frank F. Matthews wrote:
    > Valiant wrote:
    >
    >>> I am going to France next summer, and as usual, I have nothing to
    >>> fear. French people don't hate Americans, but they do hate self
    >>> righteous jingoists.
    >
    >
    >> Oh yeah, I guess that's why so many of them spike tourist food and put
    >> "Americans Go Home" signs on their windows. By the way, what the heck
    >> does Cheney and Co killing thousands of RPG wielding militants in Iraq
    >> have to do with Armstrong winning the Tour de France?
    >
    >
    > snip
    >
    > Do you have any real evidence for the prevalence of "Americans Go Home"
    > signs. I spent a week and a half in Paris and didn't notice any in
    > either English or French.
    >
    > As to tour spectators. Drunk Europeans are about the same as drunk
    > rednecks.
    >


I have spent a couple of months in France over the last year and never
once had an unpleasant 'America go home' experience or observed any ugliness

Jenn

Jeremy Henderson wrote:

    > On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 00:29:43 -0700, walter wrote:
    >
    >
    >>>July 22, 2004 -- Asinine German cycling fans harassed five-time Tour
    >>>de France champion Lance Armstrong during yesterday's grueling ride
    >>>though the French Alps ?
    >>...
    >>>That sentiment was captured in a roadside sign last week that read,
    >>>"Lance Go Home."
    >>...
    >>>"Nothing against the French, but in France, they're after us,"
    >>>Armstrong said.
    >>I'd rather think it's because Mr. Armstrongs behaviour and character
    >>which has changed in a bad way during his career.
    >>Remember his races against Jan Ullrich in the past, when they fought
    >>like hell, but helped and waited for each other in case of accidents?
    >>Lance Armstrong won and the crowd loved him.
    >>The contrary, for example yesterday: Mr. Armstrong hang at the back
    >>wheel of another driver all the time (which saves up to 30% power),
    >>let him do all the work, so he could easily pass him a second before
    >>the finish. It is an unwritten law that a champion leaves the day to
    >>his tractor if he will likely win the tour with or without this day
    >>victory. Mr. Armstrong does not anymore.
    >
    >
    > You weren't watching properly - Armstrong tried to give the victory to his
    > team mate, but Ullrich rsponded and caught him, Armstrong then outsprinted
    > both Ullrich and *his* team-mate.
    >
    > J;
    >
    >

well it was Kloden and not Ulrich -- but exactly -- Landis did the heavy
lifting up the hill for ALL the leaders including his teammate Armstrong
and Armstrong wanted to give him the victory -- since he was the one who
earned it -- Kloden decided to make a run for it himself and so since
Landis couldn't do it, Lance went ahead and won. No reason Kloden
shouldn't try to take the stage -- but also no reason that Lance should
give it to him -- when he gave Basso a stage earlier, he was critized in
the press for that -- so clearly there is a little jealousy or a little
boredom in the presscorps -- they have to whine regardless

Jenn

emmanuel wrote:

    > [email protected] (Laura Bush murdered her boy friend) wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    >>[email protected] (Bobby Fischler) wrote in message
    >>news:<[email protected] e.com>...
    >>>http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/18138.htm
    >>>July 22, 2004 -- Asinine German cycling fans harassed five-time Tour
    >>>de France champion Lance Armstrong during yesterday's grueling ride
    >>>though the French Alps ? two of the "idiots" spat on him, and another
    >>>spectator chased him while wearing a "F - - - Bush" T-shirt. By the
    >>>end of the day, of course, the spit on Armstrong was exchanged for a
    >>>bath of champagne, thanks to the Texan's time-trial victory.
    >>>But the win did not erase what had happened.
    >>>"I don't think it's safe," said Armstrong
    >>>That sentiment was captured in a roadside sign last week that read,
    >>>"Lance Go Home."
    >>>As a result, Armstrong has bodyguards during the three-week race.
    >>>"Nothing against the French, but in France, they're after us,"
    >>>Armstrong said.
    >>I didn't know lance was from texas. No wonder he's a nazi. He got
    >>what he deserved.
    >
    >
    > Certainly not.
    > He's a great champion, he seems to enjoy France and has a lot of fans
    > here, and as far as I remember, he said before the Iraqi war that it was
    > a mistake. Those who spat on him are idiots, but it's only 2 people out
    > of 800 000 supporters.
    >

and cyclists from other countries also complained about the unruly
German fans and the general lack of safety for riders as fans both
hostile and friendly ran into the course, touched the riders and
generally made nuisances of themselves. it amazes me that this is not
better controlled since the great Eddie Merck actually had a Tour de
France stolen from him when he was assaulted on the course, injured and
was unable to win as a result.

Nicolas Benicoeur

    > SNIP crap by Islamophile appologist Nicholas Benicoer.

So the great Enlightenment know more than the demographer who compiled the
2002 census on Muslims in France??? I would re-read the article I provided
for your reference before you make an even bigger ass out of yourself.

The section I refer is:

------
To try to clear up the confusion, the French state half-swallowed its
principles a couple of years ago and allowed a sample poll on ethnic
backgrounds as part of a national census. A report was published last
year based on this poll. It was written by Mme Tribalat. She estimates
that the true "Muslim population" of France is 3.7 million or 6 per
cent. The percentage of Muslims in the French population under 18 is
indeed higher, she told me - around 10 per cent. The percentage in the
population under 25 is not "25-30 per cent", as Ms Amiel mystifyingly
claims, but around 8 or 9 per cent.
------

EvelynVogtGamble

Sam wrote:

    > Neither do I. But that doesn't drive me to blind hatred of him. It
    > doesn't make me care more about removing him from office than about
    > what's good for this country.

You can't SERIOUSLY be implying that the Shrub is "good for this
country"!!!!! He has eliminated the budget "surplus" he inherited,
driven the national debt to an all time high (even without factoring in
any adequate budget provisions for many of his "programs"), "created"
jobs by exporting them overseas (therfore far more Americans are jobless
now than when he took office), alienated most of America's one-time
allies, involved his country in a needless and costly war based on
"faulty intelligence" (for which read out-and-out lies and his own
"wishful thinking").... Not to mention undermining the Constitution,
here at home .... with such a "leader", who needs outside enemies?
(IMO, he should be impeached, not allowed to run for the office a second
time!)

EvelynVogtGamble

Magda wrote:

    > On 26 Jul 2004 00:16:46 -0700, in rec.travel.europe, [email protected] (Sam) arranged some
    > electrons, so they looked like this :
    >
    > ... Neither do I. But that doesn't drive me to blind hatred of him. It
    > ... doesn't make me care more about removing him from office than about
    > ... what's good for this country. So it doesn't make me recklessly trash
    > ... my country in the process of trashing him. And it doesn't make me
    > ... delude myself into viewing him as the bad guy and Saddam Hussein as
    > ... the good guy. In other words, not likeing Bush doesn't drive me crazy.
    > ...
    > ... And that wasn't the point. Stupid suckwad anti-American Americans
    > ... trying to look and sound and seem "intelligent" to impress Europeans
    > ... was the point. You know, the old "hate America first" crowd. The
    > ... nitwits just don't get it.
    >
    > Instead of "hate", maybe you could check "disdain" in a dictionary.
    > It's much closer to the truth.

....And, if such as "Sam" really represent my fellow-Americans, an
entirely justified disdain! I don't "hate" my country - I simply
recognize its imperfections, and deplore the glorification of ignorance
and stupidity (along with the accompanying denigration of education and
intellect) which appears to prevail in America, recently.
    >

Jenn

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:

    >
    >
    > Sam wrote:
    >
    >> Neither do I. But that doesn't drive me to blind hatred of him. It
    >> doesn't make me care more about removing him from office than about
    >> what's good for this country.
    >
    >
    > You can't SERIOUSLY be implying that the Shrub is "good for this
    > country"!!!!! He has eliminated the budget "surplus" he inherited,
    > driven the national debt to an all time high (even without factoring in
    > any adequate budget provisions for many of his "programs"), "created"
    > jobs by exporting them overseas (therfore far more Americans are jobless
    > now than when he took office), alienated most of America's one-time
    > allies, involved his country in a needless and costly war based on
    > "faulty intelligence" (for which read out-and-out lies and his own
    > "wishful thinking").... Not to mention undermining the Constitution,
    > here at home .... with such a "leader", who needs outside enemies? (IMO,
    > he should be impeached, not allowed to run for the office a second time!)
    >

no kidding -- those who blindly support this guy of course dismiss all
of your perfectly sensible points as 'bush bashing' which implies that
truth is irrelevant

this is the worst president in the last 100 years -- and the damage he
is doing to us internationally and in terms of our security is
incalculable -- and of course he is also a disaster on most domestic
issues other than lining the pockets of his cronies

and to top it off he has the very very very dangerous delusion that 'God
speaks' through him -- hard to imagine anything much scarier than a
willfully ignorant president who thinks he is God or God's instrument

MrPepper11

San Francisco Chronicle
July 26, 2004

Exalt carefully
by David Steele

How much easier it would be for everybody involved if what Lance
Armstrong has done could be appreciated on its own merit. If it could
be put in some sort of normal perspective, in a proper place in the
realm of sports and the world at large.

Without the accompanying baggage, six consecutive victories in the
Tour de France is one hell of an achievement.

Perspective broke away from the peloton long ago, though, and it's not
coming back to the pack.

There are too many stories surrounding Armstrong -- and, it's become
clear, you'd better pick one, and one only. Choose carefully, though.
Whichever position you choose states your position about any number of
subjects that spread beyond a simple (OK, not simple) bike race. Love
of country. Embrace of other cultures. The will to overcome
life-threatening adversity. Performance enhancement. Honesty. Hero
worship. Role models. The double standards inherent in them all.

That's what happens with a personality and a story as complex and
complicated as Armstrong's. Yet the urge to simplify him for mass
consumption is too great.

This much is clear: Armstrong is being hailed, and will be hailed for
a long time, as the greatest athlete in the world, and those hailing
him are willing to chew off the arm of whoever disagrees. He also is
as big an American hero as an athlete can be, if not more so. At least
that's the image emerging from his most ardent followers, especially
during Sunday's final stage, the entry into Paris.

You'd think the Allies were returning from Normandy, rather than a
wave of bicycle racers from Montereau. American flags, big Uncle Sam
hats, painted faces, people singing the "Star-Spangled Banner" as if
they were accompanying Francis Scott Key himself. It was the kind of
behavior that U.S. Olympic officials are warning athletes and visitors
to restrain in Athens, lest they mark themselves as terror targets.

"It was like being home," Armstrong said. Of course, you really
shouldn't act in public the way you act at home.

In a televised interview before the final stage, Armstrong observed
that the Tour was the most recognized cycling competition in the
world, then added, "This is America's bike race."

No, it's not.

But it's been co-opted, and in light of the delicate relations between
these nations, it's no surprise that both American exuberance and
French dismay are heightened. Whether this is the main reason for the
incessant French accusations of drug use against Armstrong isn't
clear. If it is, the accusers should be ashamed collectively, and
Armstrong can look forward to a long life of accepting apologies,
graciously or not. Knowing him, probably not.

On the other hand, can you blame them after their cherished event got
enveloped in stars and stripes? Remember how we acted when a Canadian
team won the World Series.

Thirty years ago, the Tour in America meant a 10-minute highlight on
"Wide World of Sports," between the cliff-diving and the bullfights.
No one besides the most rabid biking enthusiasts or international
sports cognoscenti thought to rank Eddy Merckx or Jacques Anquetil in
the same category as DiMaggio, Ali, Chamberlain or any Olympic gold
medalist.

This whole debate is strictly an American invention -- and one that
began when Greg LeMond became a champion in the late 1980s. His recent
accusations leveled at Armstrong are particularly stinging, because of
his credibility in the sport. The two are accusing each other of
trying to "destroy" the other. That's how high the stakes have gotten
in what was once a quaint slice of nontraditional sport.

Meanwhile, the exercise in lifting up Armstrong has included stomping
on virtually every other athlete in this country, as if they're all
lazy bums in comparison. Overeager Lance supporters even invoke his
recovery from cancer in vain ("Let's see those NBA slobs do that").
Again, such an inspirational feat can stand on its own, and doesn't
need to be wielded as a weapon, or as a shield. It's sad.

Also sad: How Armstrong's stature is being raised, while Marion Jones'
and Barry Bonds' are being diminished. All have flunked the same
number of drug tests, by the way: zero.

Armstrong is getting the presumption of innocence few are willing to
give the other two, is receiving the benefit of the doubt the other
two are being denied, is being fitted for hero's robes while the
others are fighting very public efforts to strip them.

In the process, greatness is being selectively recognized, and
Armstrong's feat is being diminished in the rush to exalt him and what
people want him to represent.

In a perfect world, six straight Tour de France wins would be good
enough. But the world isn't perfect, and neither is Armstrong. He
knows it. One day, maybe everybody will.

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