JFK Layover
Dec 12th 2005 | 7:42 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
> In article
> <1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_spam@ yahoo.com>, David
> Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> > The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> > invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> > for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> > vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> > to blame for that.
>
> Have you seen the latest scientific poll done by ABC on opinions in
> Afganhistan ?
>
> Here is a sample:
>
> "Almost nine in 10 - 87 percent - say the US-led overthrow of the
> Taliban in 2001 was a good thing for the people of Afghanistan"
>
> Do you give credit to the U.S. for this?
Some, yes. I think there was perhaps a more compelling case for getting
rid of the Taliban, but the US didn't overthrow them for the sake of the
people of Afghanistan.
> Removing one of the most
> oppressive dictatorships in the world and freeing some 15+ million
> people?
When are they going to invade North Korea, Zimbabwe and the Sudan?
> Would it surprise you that 18 months ago these numbers were not this
> conclusive?
No, of course not. I hope that they're similar 18 months hence.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> In article
> <1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_spam@ yahoo.com>, David
> Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> > The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> > invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> > for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> > vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> > to blame for that.
>
> Have you seen the latest scientific poll done by ABC on opinions in
> Afganhistan ?
>
> Here is a sample:
>
> "Almost nine in 10 - 87 percent - say the US-led overthrow of the
> Taliban in 2001 was a good thing for the people of Afghanistan"
>
> Do you give credit to the U.S. for this?
Some, yes. I think there was perhaps a more compelling case for getting
rid of the Taliban, but the US didn't overthrow them for the sake of the
people of Afghanistan.
> Removing one of the most
> oppressive dictatorships in the world and freeing some 15+ million
> people?
When are they going to invade North Korea, Zimbabwe and the Sudan?
> Would it surprise you that 18 months ago these numbers were not this
> conclusive?
No, of course not. I hope that they're similar 18 months hence.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Dec 12th 2005 | 8:44 pm
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
>> >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
>> >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
>> >> >aftermath.
>> >>
>> >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
>> >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
>> >
>> >Blame can be shared.
>>
>> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>to blame for that.
So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
with govt. policies?
--
Martin
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
>> >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
>> >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
>> >> >aftermath.
>> >>
>> >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
>> >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
>> >
>> >Blame can be shared.
>>
>> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>to blame for that.
So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
with govt. policies?
--
Martin
Dec 12th 2005 | 9:10 pm
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
[]
> >> >Blame can be shared.
> >>
> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
> >
> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> >to blame for that.
>
> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
> with govt. policies?
I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
[]
> >> >Blame can be shared.
> >>
> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
> >
> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> >to blame for that.
>
> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
> with govt. policies?
I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Dec 12th 2005 | 9:42 pm
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:10:23 +0000, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>[]
>> >> >Blame can be shared.
>> >>
>> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>> >
>> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> >to blame for that.
>>
>> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
>> with govt. policies?
>I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
>figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
>bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
>Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
>the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
>government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
>wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
>bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
>bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
>in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
>who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
>decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
>doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
>Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
>go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
>lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
>So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
>that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
>entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
I don't support or try to justify terrorism anywhere.
--
Martin
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>[]
>> >> >Blame can be shared.
>> >>
>> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>> >
>> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> >to blame for that.
>>
>> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
>> with govt. policies?
>I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
>figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
>bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
>Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
>the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
>government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
>wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
>bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
>bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
>in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
>who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
>decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
>doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
>Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
>go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
>lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
>So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
>that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
>entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
I don't support or try to justify terrorism anywhere.
--
Martin
Dec 12th 2005 | 9:44 pm
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:10:23 +0000, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
> >> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> >> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
> >[]
> >> >> >Blame can be shared.
> >> >>
> >> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
> >> >
> >> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> >> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> >> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> >> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> >> >to blame for that.
> >>
> >> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
> >> with govt. policies?
> >
> >I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
> >figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
> >bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
> >Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
> >the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
> >government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
> >wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
> >bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
> >bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
> >in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
> >who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
> >decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
> >doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
> >Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
> >go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
> >lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
> >So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
> >that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
> >entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
>
> I don't support or try to justify terrorism anywhere.
Who said you did? I certainly didn't- and I don't justify it myself, but
trying to understand the causes behind things isn't the same as
justification.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:10:23 +0000, [email protected]
> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> >
> >> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
> >> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> >> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
> >[]
> >> >> >Blame can be shared.
> >> >>
> >> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
> >> >
> >> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> >> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> >> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> >> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> >> >to blame for that.
> >>
> >> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
> >> with govt. policies?
> >
> >I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
> >figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
> >bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
> >Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
> >the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
> >government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
> >wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
> >bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
> >bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
> >in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
> >who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
> >decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
> >doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
> >Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
> >go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
> >lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
> >So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
> >that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
> >entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
>
> I don't support or try to justify terrorism anywhere.
Who said you did? I certainly didn't- and I don't justify it myself, but
trying to understand the causes behind things isn't the same as
justification.
--
David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
Dec 12th 2005 | 9:55 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 20:02:25 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article
><1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_spam @yahoo.com>, David
>Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>prestwich tesco 24h offy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> > (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> > prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>> >
>> > >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >[]
>> > >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
>> > >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
>> > >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
>> > >> >aftermath.
>> > >>
>> > >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
>> > >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
>> > >
>> > >Blame can be shared.
>> >
>> > 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>>
>> The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> to blame for that.
>Have you seen the latest scientific poll done by ABC on opinions in
>Afganhistan ?
>Here is a sample:
>"Almost nine in 10 - 87 percent - say the US-led overthrow of the
>Taliban in 2001 was a good thing for the people of Afghanistan"
Pity the Iraq figures are much less rosy.
>Do you give credit to the U.S. for this? Removing one of the most
>oppressive dictatorships in the world and freeing some 15+ million
>people?
And replacing it with something that at best is slightly worse. What
an achievement!
Heck, you can't even get electricity and water right, or the oil
production back up to pre-war levels!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
>In article
><1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_spam @yahoo.com>, David
>Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>prestwich tesco 24h offy <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> > On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> > (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> > prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>> >
>> > >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >
>> > >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > >[]
>> > >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
>> > >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
>> > >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
>> > >> >aftermath.
>> > >>
>> > >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
>> > >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
>> > >
>> > >Blame can be shared.
>> >
>> > 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>>
>> The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> to blame for that.
>Have you seen the latest scientific poll done by ABC on opinions in
>Afganhistan ?
>Here is a sample:
>"Almost nine in 10 - 87 percent - say the US-led overthrow of the
>Taliban in 2001 was a good thing for the people of Afghanistan"
Pity the Iraq figures are much less rosy.
>Do you give credit to the U.S. for this? Removing one of the most
>oppressive dictatorships in the world and freeing some 15+ million
>people?
And replacing it with something that at best is slightly worse. What
an achievement!
Heck, you can't even get electricity and water right, or the oil
production back up to pre-war levels!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Dec 12th 2005 | 9:56 pm
#37
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 06:05:46 GMT, "Bill McKee"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>prestwich tesco 24h offy" <[email protected]> wrote in
>message news:1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_s [email protected]...
>> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >[]
>>> >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
>>> >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
>>> >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
>>> >> >aftermath.
>>> >>
>>> >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
>>> >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
>>> >
>>> >Blame can be shared.
>>> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>> The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> to blame for that.
>> --
>> David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
>> usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
>> http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
>As opposed to the 150,000 people a year tortured and killed by Saddam? I
>guess the Iraqi people are screwed either way.
I suspect that number has a few too many zeroes.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
<[email protected]> wrote:
>"David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>prestwich tesco 24h offy" <[email protected]> wrote in
>message news:1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_s [email protected]...
>> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> >[]
>>> >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
>>> >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
>>> >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
>>> >> >aftermath.
>>> >>
>>> >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
>>> >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
>>> >
>>> >Blame can be shared.
>>> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>> The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> to blame for that.
>> --
>> David Horne- http://www.davidhorne.net
>> usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk
>> http://homepage.mac.com/davidhornecomposer http://soundjunction.org
>As opposed to the 150,000 people a year tortured and killed by Saddam? I
>guess the Iraqi people are screwed either way.
I suspect that number has a few too many zeroes.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Dec 12th 2005 | 9:56 pm
#38
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
Go Fig schreef:
> In article
> <1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_spam@ yahoo.com>, David
> Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
> > > (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> > > prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
> > >
> > > >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
> > > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >[]
> > > >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
> > > >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
> > > >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
> > > >> >aftermath.
> > > >>
> > > >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
> > > >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
> > > >
> > > >Blame can be shared.
> > >
> > > 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
> >
> > The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> > invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> > for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> > vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> > to blame for that.
> Have you seen the latest scientific poll done by ABC on opinions in
> Afganhistan ?
> Here is a sample:
> "Almost nine in 10 - 87 percent - say the US-led overthrow of the
> Taliban in 2001 was a good thing for the people of Afghanistan"
> Do you give credit to the U.S. for this? Removing one of the most
> oppressive dictatorships in the world and freeing some 15+ million
> people?
> Would it surprise you that 18 months ago these numbers were not this
> conclusive? How bout Germany or Japan in 1946 ?
> "It is always darkest before the dawn"... Robin Hood
> jay
> Mon Dec 12, 2005
> mailto:[email protected]
Afghanistan is NOT Iraq
where are the WMD, still not found !!
What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
> In article
> <1h7hdsx.1e3ixbr1xn6k8eN%this_address_is_for_spam@ yahoo.com>, David
> Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> prestwich tesco 24h offy <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
> > > (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
> > > prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
> > >
> > > >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> On 12 Dec 2005 12:17:46 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
> > > >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > >[]
> > > >> >PHILADELPHIA - President Bush offered encouragement to war-weary
> > > >> >Iraqis on Monday but acknowledged they have paid a heavy price -
> > > >> >30,000 dead - as a result of the U.S.-led invasion and its bloody
> > > >> >aftermath.
> > > >>
> > > >> Whatever my opinion of GWB, I find it odd to blame the USA for the
> > > >> dead killed by suicide bombers.
> > > >
> > > >Blame can be shared.
> > >
> > > 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
> >
> > The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
> > invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
> > for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
> > vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
> > to blame for that.
> Have you seen the latest scientific poll done by ABC on opinions in
> Afganhistan ?
> Here is a sample:
> "Almost nine in 10 - 87 percent - say the US-led overthrow of the
> Taliban in 2001 was a good thing for the people of Afghanistan"
> Do you give credit to the U.S. for this? Removing one of the most
> oppressive dictatorships in the world and freeing some 15+ million
> people?
> Would it surprise you that 18 months ago these numbers were not this
> conclusive? How bout Germany or Japan in 1946 ?
> "It is always darkest before the dawn"... Robin Hood
> jay
> Mon Dec 12, 2005
> mailto:[email protected]
Afghanistan is NOT Iraq
where are the WMD, still not found !!
What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
Dec 12th 2005 | 10:02 pm
#39
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:44:44 +0000, [email protected]
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:10:23 +0000, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
>> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> >> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> >> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >> >Blame can be shared.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>> >> >
>> >> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> >> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> >> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> >> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> >> >to blame for that.
>> >>
>> >> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
>> >> with govt. policies?
>> >
>> >I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
>> >figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
>> >bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
>> >Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
>> >the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
>> >government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
>> >wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
>> >bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
>> >bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
>> >in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
>> >who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
>> >decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
>> >doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
>> >Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
>> >go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
>> >lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
>> >So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
>> >that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
>> >entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
>>
>> I don't support or try to justify terrorism anywhere.
>Who said you did? I certainly didn't- and I don't justify it myself, but
>trying to understand the causes behind things isn't the same as
>justification.
Sorry I thought you were justifying terrorism.
--
Martin
(David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 10:10:23 +0000, [email protected]
>> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:44:28 +0000, [email protected]
>> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >> >
>> >> >> On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 23:06:38 +0000, [email protected]
>> >> >> (David Horne, _the_ chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
>> >> >> prestwich tesco 24h offy) wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >> >Blame can be shared.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> 4 suicide bombers per 54 people or what?
>> >> >
>> >> >The suicide bombers are killing people as a direct result of the Iraq
>> >> >invasion. The bombers, and the people egging them on, are responsible
>> >> >for carrying them out, but the invasion is responsible for creating the
>> >> >vacuum that enabled them, and sure, those who ordered the invasion are
>> >> >to blame for that.
>> >>
>> >> So how often do you go out and kill somebody because you don't agree
>> >> with govt. policies?
>> >
>> >I didn't get what you referred to initially (I should have with the
>> >figures) but it's generally not Bush that's blamed for the London
>> >bombings as much as it is Blair. Bush didn't take the UK into the war,
>> >Blair did. I blame lots of things for the bombings. I ultimately blame
>> >the bombers themselves, but it's not enough to simply dismiss it (as the
>> >government have) as a minority and 'perverted' view of Islam- it has
>> >wide support in certain contexts among muslims- for example in suicide
>> >bombings in Israel. Indeed, Islamic scholars who support Israeli suicide
>> >bombing, even by children, have been warmly welcomed to the UK, London
>> >in particular. Suddenly, everyone (including the various muslim groups
>> >who are either silent or supportive of similar tactics in Israel) is
>> >decrying the bombs in London, but if you support it in Israel, it
>> >doesn't take too many twists of logic to extend it to here too. Unless
>> >Islamic scholars deal with the whole idea of martyrdom, this will simply
>> >go on and on. You can call the London bombers evil, misguided, twisted,
>> >lunatic, whatever- but you can bet other UK muslims agreed with them.
>> >So, while I can't say that Blair caused this to happen, I also think
>> >that his, and his governments insistence that the two events were
>> >entirely unrelated, is pretty crass.
>>
>> I don't support or try to justify terrorism anywhere.
>Who said you did? I certainly didn't- and I don't justify it myself, but
>trying to understand the causes behind things isn't the same as
>justification.
Sorry I thought you were justifying terrorism.
--
Martin
Dec 12th 2005 | 11:12 pm
#40
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
>Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
Russians.
--
Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
>What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
>Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
Russians.
--
Martin
Dec 12th 2005 | 11:29 pm
#41
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
In article <[email protected]>, Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
>
> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
> Russians.
Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
jay
Tue Dec 13, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
>
> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
> Russians.
Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
jay
Tue Dec 13, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
Dec 12th 2005 | 11:33 pm
#42
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:29:13 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Martin
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
>> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
>>
>> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
>> Russians.
>Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
>critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
Which left the Talliban in charge.
--
Martin
>In article <[email protected]>, Martin
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
>> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
>>
>> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
>> Russians.
>Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
>critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
Which left the Talliban in charge.
--
Martin
Dec 12th 2005 | 11:49 pm
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
In article <[email protected]>, Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:29:13 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, Martin
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
> >> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
> >>
> >> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
> >> Russians.
> >
> >Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
> >critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
>
> Which left the Talliban in charge.
After a long civil war.
jay
Tue Dec 13, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
<[email protected]> wrote:
> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:29:13 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >In article <[email protected]>, Martin
> ><[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
> >> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
> >>
> >> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
> >> Russians.
> >
> >Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
> >critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
>
> Which left the Talliban in charge.
After a long civil war.
jay
Tue Dec 13, 2005
mailto:[email protected]
Dec 13th 2005 | 12:20 am
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:49:49 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Martin
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:29:13 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, Martin
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
>> >> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
>> >>
>> >> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
>> >> Russians.
>> >
>> >Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
>> >critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
>>
>> Which left the Talliban in charge.
>After a long civil war.
Which eventually left the Americans and poppy growers in charge :-)
--
Martin
>In article <[email protected]>, Martin
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Tue, 13 Dec 2005 04:29:13 -0800, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >In article <[email protected]>, Martin
>> ><[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On 13 Dec 2005 02:56:54 -0800, "eat in Belgium"
>> >> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> >What did the USA do about the Taliban before 9/11 ??
>> >> >Nothing, because they stemmed the flow of heroin to the West.
>> >>
>> >> Not quite. The US supplied them with rockets etc. to upset the
>> >> Russians.
>> >
>> >Upset to the point that they left, the U.S. "Stinger" missile was
>> >critical to expelling the Soviets from Afghanistan.
>>
>> Which left the Talliban in charge.
>After a long civil war.
Which eventually left the Americans and poppy growers in charge :-)
--
Martin
Dec 13th 2005 | 3:53 am
#45
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: JFK Layover
Remember those soles of hashish with the M16's stenciled on them in gold
paint years ago...?...<g>
Tim K
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Which eventually left the Americans and poppy growers in charge :-)
> --
> Martin
paint years ago...?...<g>
Tim K
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Which eventually left the Americans and poppy growers in charge :-)
> --
> Martin
