How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
Sep 13th 2002 | 7:50 pm
#46
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
As always, you totally fail to get the point. There is a vast difference between
being stupid and being ill-informed, but your inability to see this distinction makes
your argument, such as it is, invalid. If you lived in Britain - which you choose not
to do - would you prefer a government elected by well-informed people, or by
ill-informed or badly-informed people?
Pulaski wrote:
> Originally posted by Bill Smith:
> > .... Democracy is a wonderful thing. However, the belief that a very large
> > proportion of electors are well-informed simply denies all the facts. ......
> >
> I don't remember democracy being conditional on anything, it is simply the view of
> the people. Sorry if you don't like that, and think that people are too stupid to
> have valid opinions. Maybe you'd like everyone to take an exam before they are
> allowed on the electoral roll? Perhaps you could also exclude people with
> extremist views from the electoral roll while you are at it?
> There are things that I don't like about the majority viewpoint either, but that's
> democracy for ya!
> By the way, my social and working circles in the UK were entirely graduate and
> professional classes,
Hardly a representative sample of the UK electorate, then.
> and my views were certainly consistent with the people I know there, and not even
> the most hard-line at that either.
God help us.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
being stupid and being ill-informed, but your inability to see this distinction makes
your argument, such as it is, invalid. If you lived in Britain - which you choose not
to do - would you prefer a government elected by well-informed people, or by
ill-informed or badly-informed people?
Pulaski wrote:
> Originally posted by Bill Smith:
> > .... Democracy is a wonderful thing. However, the belief that a very large
> > proportion of electors are well-informed simply denies all the facts. ......
> >
> I don't remember democracy being conditional on anything, it is simply the view of
> the people. Sorry if you don't like that, and think that people are too stupid to
> have valid opinions. Maybe you'd like everyone to take an exam before they are
> allowed on the electoral roll? Perhaps you could also exclude people with
> extremist views from the electoral roll while you are at it?
> There are things that I don't like about the majority viewpoint either, but that's
> democracy for ya!
> By the way, my social and working circles in the UK were entirely graduate and
> professional classes,
Hardly a representative sample of the UK electorate, then.
> and my views were certainly consistent with the people I know there, and not even
> the most hard-line at that either.
God help us.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Sep 14th 2002 | 1:32 am
#47
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
[email protected] (DeeLeeCee) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> I was of the understanding that the majority of Brits were against a war with Iraq.
> Why then is Tony Blair in the US lending support to our "war mongering" president?
> Is it political suicide?
And I suppose "Tony's Trip" makes this TRAVEL related? Shouldn't this discussion be
in rec.travel.usa-canada? Go away will you!! Gerrit
news:<[email protected]>...
> I was of the understanding that the majority of Brits were against a war with Iraq.
> Why then is Tony Blair in the US lending support to our "war mongering" president?
> Is it political suicide?
And I suppose "Tony's Trip" makes this TRAVEL related? Shouldn't this discussion be
in rec.travel.usa-canada? Go away will you!! Gerrit
Sep 14th 2002 | 4:06 am
#48
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
Gerrit: You're wrong. This is an appropriate topic for a travel group. We'll be in
the UK very shortly, and I like to get a feel of the political climate before going.
We were in England a week after the 9/11 horror, and there was an outpouring of
kindness to us. I was just wondering if things had changed since then. Are we still
welcome? Our President Bush is a blatant war monger milking the terrorist attack to
further his lust for battle. Our Senator from California, Diane Feinstein, recently
returned from a trip to Europe. She encoutered so much hostility towards Americans
that she ceased to wear her American-flag lapel pin. Yes, this is indeed an
appropriate topic. Dee
the UK very shortly, and I like to get a feel of the political climate before going.
We were in England a week after the 9/11 horror, and there was an outpouring of
kindness to us. I was just wondering if things had changed since then. Are we still
welcome? Our President Bush is a blatant war monger milking the terrorist attack to
further his lust for battle. Our Senator from California, Diane Feinstein, recently
returned from a trip to Europe. She encoutered so much hostility towards Americans
that she ceased to wear her American-flag lapel pin. Yes, this is indeed an
appropriate topic. Dee
Sep 14th 2002 | 5:55 am
#49
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
Pulaski wrote:
> Originally posted by Bill Smith:
> > .... Democracy is a wondeful thing. However, the belief that a very large
> > proportion of electors are well-informed simply denies all the facts. ......
> >
> I don't remember democracy being conditional on anything, it is simply the view of
> the people. Sorry if you don't like that, and think that people are too stupid to
> have valid opinions. Maybe you'd like everyone to take an exam before they are
> allowed on the electoral roll? Perhaps you could also exclude people with
> extremist views from the electoral roll while you are at it?
I rather like Jefferson's idea of "a free people, FULLY INFORMED", don't you? It's
not "stupidity", but "ignorance" that creats most of our problems. (And it's in the
interests of both parties to keep it that way, when they know no one would vote for
either, if they REALLY knew the facts.)
> There are things that I don't like about the majority viewpoint either, but that's
> democracy for ya!
> By the way, my social and working circles in the UK were entirely graduate and
> professional classes, and my views were certainly consistent with the people I know
> there, and not even the most hard-line at that either.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
> Originally posted by Bill Smith:
> > .... Democracy is a wondeful thing. However, the belief that a very large
> > proportion of electors are well-informed simply denies all the facts. ......
> >
> I don't remember democracy being conditional on anything, it is simply the view of
> the people. Sorry if you don't like that, and think that people are too stupid to
> have valid opinions. Maybe you'd like everyone to take an exam before they are
> allowed on the electoral roll? Perhaps you could also exclude people with
> extremist views from the electoral roll while you are at it?
I rather like Jefferson's idea of "a free people, FULLY INFORMED", don't you? It's
not "stupidity", but "ignorance" that creats most of our problems. (And it's in the
interests of both parties to keep it that way, when they know no one would vote for
either, if they REALLY knew the facts.)
> There are things that I don't like about the majority viewpoint either, but that's
> democracy for ya!
> By the way, my social and working circles in the UK were entirely graduate and
> professional classes, and my views were certainly consistent with the people I know
> there, and not even the most hard-line at that either.
> --
> Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Sep 14th 2002 | 5:57 am
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
Bill Smith wrote:
> As always, you totally fail to get the point. There is a vast difference between
> being stupid and being ill-informed, but your inability to see this distinction
> makes your argument, such as it is, invalid. If you lived in Britain - which you
> choose not to do - would you prefer a government elected by well-informed people,
> or by ill-informed or badly-informed people?
If you prefer the latter, you can always emigrate to the U.S. - we're
accustomed to it!
> Pulaski wrote:
> > Originally posted by Bill Smith:
> > > .... Democracy is a wonderful thing. However, the belief that a very large
> > > proportion of electors are well-informed simply denies all the facts. ......
> > >
> > I don't remember democracy being conditional on anything, it is simply the view
> > of the people. Sorry if you don't like that, and think that people are too
> > stupid to have valid opinions. Maybe you'd like everyone to take an exam before
> > they are allowed on the electoral roll? Perhaps you could also exclude people
> > with extremist views from the electoral roll while you are at it?
> >
> > There are things that I don't like about the majority viewpoint either, but
> > that's democracy for ya!
> >
> > By the way, my social and working circles in the UK were entirely graduate and
> > professional classes,
> Hardly a representative sample of the UK electorate, then.
> > and my views were certainly consistent with the people I know there, and not even
> > the most hard-line at that either.
> God help us.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
> As always, you totally fail to get the point. There is a vast difference between
> being stupid and being ill-informed, but your inability to see this distinction
> makes your argument, such as it is, invalid. If you lived in Britain - which you
> choose not to do - would you prefer a government elected by well-informed people,
> or by ill-informed or badly-informed people?
If you prefer the latter, you can always emigrate to the U.S. - we're
accustomed to it!
> Pulaski wrote:
> > Originally posted by Bill Smith:
> > > .... Democracy is a wonderful thing. However, the belief that a very large
> > > proportion of electors are well-informed simply denies all the facts. ......
> > >
> > I don't remember democracy being conditional on anything, it is simply the view
> > of the people. Sorry if you don't like that, and think that people are too
> > stupid to have valid opinions. Maybe you'd like everyone to take an exam before
> > they are allowed on the electoral roll? Perhaps you could also exclude people
> > with extremist views from the electoral roll while you are at it?
> >
> > There are things that I don't like about the majority viewpoint either, but
> > that's democracy for ya!
> >
> > By the way, my social and working circles in the UK were entirely graduate and
> > professional classes,
> Hardly a representative sample of the UK electorate, then.
> > and my views were certainly consistent with the people I know there, and not even
> > the most hard-line at that either.
> God help us.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Posted via http://britishexpats.com
Sep 14th 2002 | 7:29 am
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
"DeeLeeCee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Gerrit: You're wrong. This is an appropriate topic for a travel group. We'll be
> in the UK very shortly, and I like to get a feel of the political climate before
> going. We were in England a week after the 9/11 horror, and there was an outpouring
> of kindness to us. I was just wondering if things
had
> changed since then. Are we still welcome? Our President Bush is a
blatant war
> monger milking the terrorist attack to further his lust for battle. Our Senator
> from California, Diane Feinstein, recently returned from a trip to Europe. She
> encoutered so much hostility towards Americans that she
ceased to
> wear her American-flag lapel pin. Yes, this is indeed an appropriate
topic.
> Dee
(at a guess) that would be because she went as a representative of 'America', not as
'an American' - most Europeans I know can tell the difference between the two
> Gerrit: You're wrong. This is an appropriate topic for a travel group. We'll be
> in the UK very shortly, and I like to get a feel of the political climate before
> going. We were in England a week after the 9/11 horror, and there was an outpouring
> of kindness to us. I was just wondering if things
had
> changed since then. Are we still welcome? Our President Bush is a
blatant war
> monger milking the terrorist attack to further his lust for battle. Our Senator
> from California, Diane Feinstein, recently returned from a trip to Europe. She
> encoutered so much hostility towards Americans that she
ceased to
> wear her American-flag lapel pin. Yes, this is indeed an appropriate
topic.
> Dee
(at a guess) that would be because she went as a representative of 'America', not as
'an American' - most Europeans I know can tell the difference between the two
Sep 14th 2002 | 2:00 pm
#52
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 53,356
From: Dixie, ex UK
Re: How will UK voters view Tony's US Trip?
[SIZE=1]Originally posted by Bill Smith:
As always, you totally fail to get the point. There is a vast difference between being stupid and being ill-informed, but your inability to see this distinction makes your argument, such as it is, invalid. If you lived in Britain - which you choose not to do - would you prefer a government elected by well-informed people, or by ill-informed or badly-informed people?
As always, you totally fail to get the point. There is a vast difference between being stupid and being ill-informed, but your inability to see this distinction makes your argument, such as it is, invalid. If you lived in Britain - which you choose not to do - would you prefer a government elected by well-informed people, or by ill-informed or badly-informed people?
I made the comment about my work and social circles to try to get across to you that these people are likely to be relatively well informed about current affairs issues.
It of course goes without saying that an informed electorate is preferable, but what you don't seem to consider is that it is quite possible to be well informed and to come to a different conclusion to yours. I.e that, all things considered, there are good arguments for kicking Saddam's behind.
I believe that many well informed people would agree with this. I emphasize that it is my belief, and no, I cannot prove it, but this belief is consistent with many of my work and social acquaintances in the UK.
Last edited by Pulaski; Sep 14th 2002 at 2:09 pm.
