Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On 9 aug, 15:33, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:40:35 GMT, "William Black" <[email protected]>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> >"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >news:1i2kvk9.a4af121n6whpzN%[email protected]. ..
>
> >> "I think you're being too paranoid. Mild vigilance will be all you need
> >> with a normal backpack. Besides, the cities you mentioned don't have a
> >> particularly bad reputation for crime..."
>
> >I was looking at those 'pacsafe' things where you wrap your
> >bag/case/whatever in a stainless steel mesh and padlock it so they can't be
> >slashed by a knife.
>
> >I've never before seen a device that screams quite so loudly 'I'm carrying
> >valuables, please rob me'.
>
> >Talk about asking for trouble...
>
> .. talking about wives with open handbags?

You talkin' to me??

As reported in these pages, Mrs B had her purse stolen from a backpack
on the Paris Metro. However, she has had 2 other purses stolen, from
which I conclude that she is not very careful to put things in safe
places.

B;

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

<[email protected]> wrote:

> On 9 aug, 12:10, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> (*)) wrote:
> > The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> > > (*)) wrote:
> >
> > > >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
> > > >> dramatically here too.
> >
> > > >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
> > > >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
> >
> > > I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
> > > no reason 30 years ago.
> >
> > When was the last time a tourist was shot in the UK? (Menenez doesn't
> > count, he was living here.)
> >
> > The murder and violent crime rate is higher in Scotland than it is in
> > England. I don't think tourists suddenly feel less safe when the cross
> > the border, because the risk to tourists is very low.
> >
> > Two people have been violently murdered in my home town (Tillicoultry)
> > in the last few years. I don't remember a murder in all the time I lived
> > there- though I remember a stabbing.
>
> The crime stats for St Mary Mead are pretty shocking!!

Midsomer too, but these particular ones were very unusual in a small
town.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/...al/6151648.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/4385184.stm

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Aug 9, 4:53 am, Frank Hucklenbroich <[email protected]>
wrote:
> Am Wed, 08 Aug 2007 16:07:21 -0700 schrieb Iceman:
>
> > How paranoid depends on where you're visiting. I've been to places
> > like Mexico and China where I was very careful about theft.
>
> China? Seemed one of the safest places in the world to me. You know that
> thieves there can end up being executed if found out, don't you? No need to
> be very careful there.


There are a lot of poor, desperate people in Chinese cities, there are
thick crowds everywhere, and even as a Western backpacker you are
obviously much richer than 95% of the population.

There is almost no violent crime to my knowledge, and you definitely
won't be attacked or mugged, but when you are in a crowd of people you
definitely need to worry that someone will try to pick your pocket or
grab your bag and run off with it. The guidebooks I read cautioned
that petty theft is a real problem for travelers outside of well-
patrolled tourist areas.

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 06:57:16 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On 9 aug, 15:33, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 11:40:35 GMT, "William Black" <[email protected]>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> >"David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*)" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> >news:1i2kvk9.a4af121n6whpzN%[email protected]. ..
>>
>> >> "I think you're being too paranoid. Mild vigilance will be all you need
>> >> with a normal backpack. Besides, the cities you mentioned don't have a
>> >> particularly bad reputation for crime..."
>>
>> >I was looking at those 'pacsafe' things where you wrap your
>> >bag/case/whatever in a stainless steel mesh and padlock it so they can't be
>> >slashed by a knife.
>>
>> >I've never before seen a device that screams quite so loudly 'I'm carrying
>> >valuables, please rob me'.
>>
>> >Talk about asking for trouble...
>>
>> .. talking about wives with open handbags?
>
>You talkin' to me??
>
>As reported in these pages, Mrs B had her purse stolen from a backpack
>on the Paris Metro. However, she has had 2 other purses stolen, from
>which I conclude that she is not very careful to put things in safe
>places.

Beat three cash cards last year, twice in two consecutive days this year, ID
cards, driving licenses, purses, even my wedding ring that for some reason was
in her purse for safe keeping ( Gawd I was naive when we were first married).
She'd have had her identity stolen but nobody wanted it.
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 09 Aug 2007 06:37:37 -0700, [email protected] wrote:

>On 9 aug, 11:42, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:39:49 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:34:41 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >> >> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> >> >> (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >> >> >> Is he worried about "violent" theft or simply people who use tools
>> >> >> >> (in this case, a sharp knife) to slice open the bottom of a backpack
>> >> >> >> and take its contents? There's likely no violence towards the person
>> >> >> >> with the backpack, and the temporary shock & disbelief at what's
>> >> >> >> happening probably keeps the thief from having to subdue his prey.
>>
>> >> >> >I was using 'violent' very widely here. This kind of theft is rare.
>>
>> >> >> Which kind? I've seen bag snatches two or three times and have friends
>> >> >> who have suffered it.
>>
>> >> >It's rare where he's going. I only know of one friend who has ever had a
>> >> >bag snatched while on holiday. That was on a bridge in Turkey.
>>
>> >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
>> >> dramatically here too.
>>
>> >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
>> >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
>>
>> It does happen, you just aren't aware of it.
>> There were 3735 recorded cases of violent crime in the first six months of 2007
>> in The Hague area.
>
>That was mostly me, kicking sh1t out of uncooperative waiters :-)

LOL

Your daughter must be involved somewhere. Hasn't she been robbed several times
in the English pub frequented by BSN kids?

For the second week running the local newspaper contains a restaurant review
complaining about slow service and the attitude of the staff.
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 15:01:08 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On 9 aug, 12:10, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> (*)) wrote:
>> > The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>> > > Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> > > (*)) wrote:
>> >
>> > > >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
>> > > >> dramatically here too.
>> >
>> > > >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
>> > > >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
>> >
>> > > I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
>> > > no reason 30 years ago.
>> >
>> > When was the last time a tourist was shot in the UK? (Menenez doesn't
>> > count, he was living here.)
>> >
>> > The murder and violent crime rate is higher in Scotland than it is in
>> > England. I don't think tourists suddenly feel less safe when the cross
>> > the border, because the risk to tourists is very low.
>> >
>> > Two people have been violently murdered in my home town (Tillicoultry)
>> > in the last few years. I don't remember a murder in all the time I lived
>> > there- though I remember a stabbing.
>>
>> The crime stats for St Mary Mead are pretty shocking!!
>
>Midsomer too, but these particular ones were very unusual in a small
>town.

No visit to Midsomer is complete without a visit to the mass burial pits.
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:11:39 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >> I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
>> >> no reason 30 years ago.
>> >
>> >When was the last time a tourist was shot in the UK?
>>
>> no idea, that wasn't the point.
>
>I thought the thread was about crime against tourists.

Wasn't it about theft proof rucksacks
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Aug 9, 6:10 am, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
(*)) wrote:
> The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> > Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> > (*)) wrote:
>
> > >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
> > >> dramatically here too.
>
> > >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
> > >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
>
> > I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
> > no reason 30 years ago.
>
> When was the last time a tourist was shot in the UK? (Menenez doesn't
> count, he was living here.)
>
> The murder and violent crime rate is higher in Scotland than it is in
> England. I don't think tourists suddenly feel less safe when the cross
> the border, because the risk to tourists is very low.


Does 90% of Scotland's crime occur in a few heroin-infested council
estates? It's not like there are drive-bys on the Royal Mile.

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 13:11:39 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> >> (*)) wrote:
> >>
> >> >> I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
> >> >> no reason 30 years ago.
> >> >
> >> >When was the last time a tourist was shot in the UK?
> >>
> >> no idea, that wasn't the point.
> >
> >I thought the thread was about crime against tourists.
>
> Wasn't it about theft proof rucksacks

That's the same thing! :)

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Following up to Iceman <[email protected]> wrote:

>Does 90% of Scotland's crime occur in a few heroin-infested council
>estates? It's not like there are drive-bys on the Royal Mile.

isnt that the same for everywhere?
--
Mike
(remove clothing to email)

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Aug 9, 6:12 am, Nisse PowerMan <[email protected]> wrote:
> David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > Bruce Dumes <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > After reading a bunch of travel web pages, I decided to arm myself with
> > > one of these expensive "slash proof" backpacks. Personally, I think
> > > it's beyond paranoid, but so many people say that they've had their
> > > backpacks or bags taken from them in seconds by someone walking by with
> > > a knife and yanking on the strap. I also got a slash-proof camera strap.
>
> > > The places I'm traveling are Hamburg (and surrounding areas), up through
> > > Denmark to Copenhagen, Latvia (Riga and Daugavpils) and a one day
> > > lay-over (no pun intended) in Amsterdam.
>
> > > I decided that the cost of the backpack was easily outweighed by the
> > > replacement costs of the contents it will be carrying. What's the
> > > general consensus around here? How paranoid should one really be?
>
> > I think you're being too paranoid. Mild vigilance will be all you need
> > with a normal backpack. Besides, the cities you mentioned don't have a
> > particularly bad reputation for crime...
>
> Exactly. Probably 10 to 100 times worse to go to NY or LA than travel
> around Europe, not to mention Miami.


New York, Los Angeles and Miami are all very safe for tourists, and
while they all have dangerous parts, those parts are far from anything
99% of tourists would ever encounter.

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Iceman <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Aug 9, 6:10 am, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> (*)) wrote:
> > The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> > > (*)) wrote:
> >
> > > >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
> > > >> dramatically here too.
> >
> > > >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
> > > >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
> >
> > > I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
> > > no reason 30 years ago.
> >
> > When was the last time a tourist was shot in the UK? (Menenez doesn't
> > count, he was living here.)
> >
> > The murder and violent crime rate is higher in Scotland than it is in
> > England. I don't think tourists suddenly feel less safe when the cross
> > the border, because the risk to tourists is very low.
>
>
> Does 90% of Scotland's crime occur in a few heroin-infested council
> estates? It's not like there are drive-bys on the Royal Mile.

That's the point.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Aug 9, 6:40 am, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
(*)) wrote:
> Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:17:43 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> > chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> > >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > >> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:57:40 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> > >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
> []
> > >Do you have any information on the number of tourists who are victims of
> > >violent crime in the Hague, or NL? It's probably extremely low, as it is
> > >in most places.
>
> > How do you know it is seriously low in most places?
>
> Violent crime against tourists in Europe is extremely low. That's well
> known, and all I'm talking about.
>
> > I see plenty of reports of tourists being robbed in Leiden. Both my wife,
> > my son and daughter have been robbed, in A'dam, Leiden and in the Hague.
> > All three have been robbed several times, but what do we know we just live
> > here and read the local newspapers.
>
> I'm not arguing that crime doesn't happen, but that it doesn't often
> happen to tourists. Sure, you'll be reading reports of tourists being
> crime victims in local media that wouldn't make it here. FWIW, the FCO
> advice, ridiculously, mentions terrorism first, but goes on:


The only cities in Western Europe where crime against tourists is a
real concern are Barcelona, Rome and Naples. Everywhere else it is
practically a non-issue.

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Iceman <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Aug 9, 6:40 am, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> (*)) wrote:
[]
> > I'm not arguing that crime doesn't happen, but that it doesn't often
> > happen to tourists. Sure, you'll be reading reports of tourists being
> > crime victims in local media that wouldn't make it here. FWIW, the FCO
> > advice, ridiculously, mentions terrorism first, but goes on:
>
>
> The only cities in Western Europe where crime against tourists is a
> real concern are Barcelona, Rome and Naples. Everywhere else it is
> practically a non-issue.

Barcelona is certainly the UK consulate which reports the most lost
passports. Even there, crime is actually confined to a few areas.I
always felt completely safe there, no matter where I went. Our first
visit, we were warned twice in Spanish by locals to 'be careful!'

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

"Iceman" <[email protected]> kirjoitti
viestissä:[email protected] glegroups.com...

>
> The only cities in Western Europe where crime against tourists is a
> real concern are Barcelona, Rome and Naples. Everywhere else it is
> practically a non-issue.
>
Ah! This is an enlightened assumption or you quite know it is so?