Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
(*)) wrote:

>> Is he worried about "violent" theft or simply people who use tools (in this
>> case, a sharp knife) to slice open the bottom of a backpack and take its
>> contents? There's likely no violence towards the person with the backpack,
>> and the temporary shock & disbelief at what's happening probably keeps the
>> thief from having to subdue his prey.
>
>I was using 'violent' very widely here. This kind of theft is rare.

Which kind? I've seen bag snatches two or three times and have friends
who have suffered it.
--
Mike
(remove clothing to email)

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:

> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> (*)) wrote:
>
> >> Is he worried about "violent" theft or simply people who use tools (in this
> >> case, a sharp knife) to slice open the bottom of a backpack and take its
> >> contents? There's likely no violence towards the person with the backpack,
> >> and the temporary shock & disbelief at what's happening probably keeps the
> >> thief from having to subdue his prey.
> >
> >I was using 'violent' very widely here. This kind of theft is rare.
>
> Which kind? I've seen bag snatches two or three times and have friends
> who have suffered it.

It's rare where he's going. I only know of one friend who has ever had a
bag snatched while on holiday. That was on a bridge in Turkey.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:34:41 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >> Is he worried about "violent" theft or simply people who use tools (in this
>> >> case, a sharp knife) to slice open the bottom of a backpack and take its
>> >> contents? There's likely no violence towards the person with the backpack,
>> >> and the temporary shock & disbelief at what's happening probably keeps the
>> >> thief from having to subdue his prey.
>> >
>> >I was using 'violent' very widely here. This kind of theft is rare.
>>
>> Which kind? I've seen bag snatches two or three times and have friends
>> who have suffered it.
>
>It's rare where he's going. I only know of one friend who has ever had a
>bag snatched while on holiday. That was on a bridge in Turkey.

It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
dramatically here too. One of the joys of not reading local newspapers when
abroad is the false perception of being in a crime free country.
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:34:41 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> >> (*)) wrote:
> >>
> >> >> Is he worried about "violent" theft or simply people who use tools
> >> >> (in this case, a sharp knife) to slice open the bottom of a backpack
> >> >> and take its contents? There's likely no violence towards the person
> >> >> with the backpack, and the temporary shock & disbelief at what's
> >> >> happening probably keeps the thief from having to subdue his prey.
> >> >
> >> >I was using 'violent' very widely here. This kind of theft is rare.
> >>
> >> Which kind? I've seen bag snatches two or three times and have friends
> >> who have suffered it.
> >
> >It's rare where he's going. I only know of one friend who has ever had a
> >bag snatched while on holiday. That was on a bridge in Turkey.
>
> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
> dramatically here too.

As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:39:49 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:34:41 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
>> >> (*)) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >> Is he worried about "violent" theft or simply people who use tools
>> >> >> (in this case, a sharp knife) to slice open the bottom of a backpack
>> >> >> and take its contents? There's likely no violence towards the person
>> >> >> with the backpack, and the temporary shock & disbelief at what's
>> >> >> happening probably keeps the thief from having to subdue his prey.
>> >> >
>> >> >I was using 'violent' very widely here. This kind of theft is rare.
>> >>
>> >> Which kind? I've seen bag snatches two or three times and have friends
>> >> who have suffered it.
>> >
>> >It's rare where he's going. I only know of one friend who has ever had a
>> >bag snatched while on holiday. That was on a bridge in Turkey.
>>
>> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
>> dramatically here too.
>
>As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
>the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.

It does happen, you just aren't aware of it.
There were 3735 recorded cases of violent crime in the first six months of 2007
in The Hague area.
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
(*)) wrote:

> I only know of one friend who has ever had a
>bag snatched while on holiday.

one friend in Italy, chased them till they chased back :-(
seen a couple in Spain, stopped one in Barcelona.
made citizens arrest in London on tube 30 years ago!
female friend mugged and bag stolen multiple times, obviously looks
target. (small, inattentive)
--
Mike
(remove clothing to email)

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
(*)) wrote:

>> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
>> dramatically here too.
>
>As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
>the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.

I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
no reason 30 years ago.
--
Mike
(remove clothing to email)

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:39:49 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
[]
> >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
> >> dramatically here too.
> >
> >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
> >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
>
> It does happen, you just aren't aware of it.

I said it was very unlikely.

> There were 3735 recorded cases of violent crime in the first six months of
> 2007 in The Hague area.

If they were all commited against tourists, I'd personally worry about
the figure.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:

> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> (*)) wrote:
>
> >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
> >> dramatically here too.
> >
> >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
> >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
>
> I thought crime was officially falling. However you didnt get shot for
> no reason 30 years ago.

When was the last time a tourist was shot in the UK? (Menenez doesn't
count, he was living here.)

The murder and violent crime rate is higher in Scotland than it is in
England. I don't think tourists suddenly feel less safe when the cross
the border, because the risk to tourists is very low.

Two people have been violently murdered in my home town (Tillicoultry)
in the last few years. I don't remember a murder in all the time I lived
there- though I remember a stabbing.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

The Reid <[email protected]> wrote:

> Following up to [email protected] (David Horne, _the_ chancellor
> (*)) wrote:
>
> > I only know of one friend who has ever had a
> >bag snatched while on holiday.
>
> one friend in Italy, chased them till they chased back :-(

My ex left all his bags on a train in Florence in the mid-90s, and went
into another to look for more space, and when he came back, they'd all
been taken. Not a clever thing to do! Ironically, my partner and I were
in the city at the same time, oblivious. Oscar swore blind he saw him,
and I dimissed it as rubbish- until I got back home and found out
everything that happened!

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:57:40 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:39:49 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>[]
>> >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
>> >> dramatically here too.
>> >
>> >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
>> >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
>>
>> It does happen, you just aren't aware of it.
>
>I said it was very unlikely.

but you have no knowledge of the actual situation.

>
>> There were 3735 recorded cases of violent crime in the first six months of
>> 2007 in The Hague area.
>
>If they were all commited against tourists, I'd personally worry about
>the figure.

If all violent robberies reported were recorded...
When my son was mugged at knife point in the Hague the police were totally
disinterested.
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) wrote:
>
> Bruce Dumes <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > After reading a bunch of travel web pages, I decided to arm myself with
> > one of these expensive "slash proof" backpacks. Personally, I think
> > it's beyond paranoid, but so many people say that they've had their
> > backpacks or bags taken from them in seconds by someone walking by with
> > a knife and yanking on the strap. I also got a slash-proof camera strap.
> >
> > The places I'm traveling are Hamburg (and surrounding areas), up through
> > Denmark to Copenhagen, Latvia (Riga and Daugavpils) and a one day
> > lay-over (no pun intended) in Amsterdam.
> >
> > I decided that the cost of the backpack was easily outweighed by the
> > replacement costs of the contents it will be carrying. What's the
> > general consensus around here? How paranoid should one really be?
>
> I think you're being too paranoid. Mild vigilance will be all you need
> with a normal backpack. Besides, the cities you mentioned don't have a
> particularly bad reputation for crime...

Exactly. Probably 10 to 100 times worse to go to NY or LA than travel
around Europe, not to mention Miami.

/Nisse

>
> --
> (*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
> http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
> "Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
> Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

--
Remove the obvious part before replying by mail please!

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:57:40 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>
> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:39:49 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
> >>
> >> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
> >[]
> >> >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
> >> >> dramatically here too.
> >> >
> >> >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
> >> >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
> >>
> >> It does happen, you just aren't aware of it.
> >
> >I said it was very unlikely.
>
> but you have no knowledge of the actual situation.

Do you have any information on the number of tourists who are victims of
violent crime in the Hague, or NL? It's probably extremely low, as it is
in most places.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 11:17:43 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
chancellor (*)) wrote:

>Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:57:40 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>>
>> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, 9 Aug 2007 10:39:49 +0100, [email protected] (David Horne, _the_
>> >> chancellor (*)) wrote:
>> >>
>> >> >Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >[]
>> >> >> It happens all the time in the Netherlands and violent crime is rising
>> >> >> dramatically here too.
>> >> >
>> >> >As with here, but I'd still say it was safe for tourists. I don't see
>> >> >the point in worrying about something which is very unlikely to happen.
>> >>
>> >> It does happen, you just aren't aware of it.
>> >
>> >I said it was very unlikely.
>>
>> but you have no knowledge of the actual situation.
>
>Do you have any information on the number of tourists who are victims of
>violent crime in the Hague, or NL? It's probably extremely low, as it is
>in most places.

How do you know it is seriously low in most places?

I see plenty of reports of tourists being robbed in Leiden. Both my wife, my son
and daughter have been robbed, in A'dam, Leiden and in the Hague. All three have
been robbed several times, but what do we know we just live here and read the
local newspapers.
--

Martin

Re: how paranoid should one really be?
 

Nisse PowerMan <[email protected]> wrote:

> David Horne, _the_ chancellor (*) wrote:
> >
> > Bruce Dumes <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > > After reading a bunch of travel web pages, I decided to arm myself with
> > > one of these expensive "slash proof" backpacks. Personally, I think
> > > it's beyond paranoid, but so many people say that they've had their
> > > backpacks or bags taken from them in seconds by someone walking by with
> > > a knife and yanking on the strap. I also got a slash-proof camera strap.
> > >
> > > The places I'm traveling are Hamburg (and surrounding areas), up through
> > > Denmark to Copenhagen, Latvia (Riga and Daugavpils) and a one day
> > > lay-over (no pun intended) in Amsterdam.
> > >
> > > I decided that the cost of the backpack was easily outweighed by the
> > > replacement costs of the contents it will be carrying. What's the
> > > general consensus around here? How paranoid should one really be?
> >
> > I think you're being too paranoid. Mild vigilance will be all you need
> > with a normal backpack. Besides, the cities you mentioned don't have a
> > particularly bad reputation for crime...
>
> Exactly. Probably 10 to 100 times worse to go to NY or LA than travel
> around Europe, not to mention Miami.

NY doesn't have a bad reputation for crime though. When I was living in
Philadelphia, it has a very high murder rate, but it wasn't something
which impacted on tourists.

--
(*) ... of the royal duchy of city south and deansgate
http://www.davidhorne.net - real address on website
"Abominable, loyal, blind, apparently subservient."
Pres. Carter on Ex-Pres. Blair- May, 2007