On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 15:04:06 -0500, Viking <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:26:21 -0500, "Rog'"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>"Viking" <[email protected]> wrote...
    >>> Well, the "context" is that I had a surprisingly nasty
    >>> experience, and think other should be warned.
    >>Nasty experiences can occur anywhere.
    >I haven't said otherwise.
    >The sheer number of things that happened to us near Termini, however,
    >makes me think it a particularly bad area, and want to warn others.
    >(As I have said before, I've heard it's better now.)

When did this happen?
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 11:42:32 -0500, Viking <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Yes, seriously. All that happened to us, and it was probably because
    >we were in the area around Termini, which was what I was trying to
    >disuade the original poster from. Your response makes me wonder if
    >Barbara, normally a good poster thought my report was made up. I only
    >wish it were!! It happened years ago, and I've posted it from time to
    >time, trying to tell people to not stay in the Termini area. (Although
    >I've heard it's gotten better lately.)

Oh, yes, now I remember you! It happened years ago: that rang a bell,
although you were posting under a different name then. What on earth
makes you think your experience years ago has any relevance for a
traveller to Italy in 2005 who wants to stay near Termini?

I wouldn't choose to stay near Termini myself in most situations, but
only because it's not a very convenient location. A year ago my
husband and I stayed near Termini because I had a meeting with some
American colleagues who were also staying near Termini. We walked
around late at night while we were there, without problems. My
daughter lived in an apartment near Termini for about six months and
neither she nor the other students with whom she shared an apartment
had any unpleasant experience. An acquaintance of my daughter who was
visiting Rome around the time my daughter lived there had a bag
stolen, and that might have happened near Termini. But that's the only
case I know. When I go to Rome, I travel in and out of Termini and I
have been there so many times I've lost count. I sometimes see drugged
out backpackers in the station, or Rom women begging, and once I was
approached on a track by a German-speaking beggar, but I have never
had anything stolen, nor been accosted by anyone.

I'm not saying it can't happen, but to continue to warn people based
on an outdated experience is not helpful.


--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:51:59 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:

    >>The sheer number of things that happened to us near Termini, however,
    >>makes me think it a particularly bad area, and want to warn others.
    >>(As I have said before, I've heard it's better now.)
    >When did this happen?

About 10 yrs ago.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 13:52:00 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Oh, yes, now I remember you! It happened years ago: that rang a bell,
    >although you were posting under a different name then. What on earth
    >makes you think your experience years ago has any relevance for a
    >traveller to Italy in 2005 who wants to stay near Termini?

What's that? As I've been saying, it happened some years ago; readers
are informed about that. Some people have told me the area's improved,
some have said no. What makes you think my experience has no relevance
to a traveller today?? It's not like it happened 500 years ago,
Barbara.

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 04:29:12 -0800, Icono Clast <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >Viking wrote:
    >> The wallet was in my front pocket . . . I've probably worn an
    >> inside wallet longer than you.
    >I know what a wallet is but I don't know what an "inside wallet" is.

Worn inside the pants, with a belt loop.

DFM: I'd really like to hear about your Russia experiences--have been
planning to go there. Any thoughts?

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 11:54:56 -0500, Viking <[email protected]> wrote:

    >DFM: I'd really like to hear about your Russia experiences--have been
    >planning to go there. Any thoughts?

Ah yes, I meant to reply to the other post, but deleted it.

OK, I was always interested in Russia, coz it's a strange beast of a
place. The mentality of the residents is in a world of its own. The
visa process is utterly bewildering for newcomers, and seasoned
travellers alike.

I flew Aeroflot from Tokyo to Moscow, and arrived at Sheremetyevo,
which immediately prepares one for the genuine Russian
sleazy/inefficient/chaotic experience. Taxi touts everywhere wanting
to take you for a ride.

The trip to the metro was in a shitty minibus along a highway. Some of
the others in the bus were boozing at that point. The metro itself is
pretty good, if old. It was very crowded for us. Everything is written
in cyrrilic, so you must learn that before you go. It's not that hard.
Also, english is barely spoken, so you should learn at least phrase
book level Russian. Pronunciations is not particularly difficult
coming from english.

I stayed in a dirt cheap place which is now out of operation.
Registering the visa was an utter nightmare. The Russian consulate in
Sydney ****ed up my visa, and their mistake ended up costing me around
an extra US$100, plus a few hours.

Moscow is utterly chaotic city, with a brittle atmosphere. There are
cops and military everywhere, and they frequently perform random
checks of documents, plus move you on if you look too comfortable. The
lends to a pretty nervous atmosphere. To counteract that, I did what
the locals did - boozed. Good beer is available everywhere, and seems
to make the place make more sense. The metro is the best way by far to
get around, but you must know cyrillic, and note that the station
names are not always displayed at the stations. Some of the stations
are very beautiful. You really can expect anything to happen in
Moscow. It's got a slight Asian flavour, but really just reeks of
Russianess in every way you imagined.

Food is shit, and expensive. There and some places that are ok, like
My My (pron. Moo Moo), and the occasional McDonalds but most of it
leaves a lot to be desired. My suggestion is to drink like a local
instead, and forget any notions of cuisine.

On to St Petersburg. That city is utterly exquisite in terms of
architecture. It has both European and Russian architecture, canals,
and grand boulevards. A great city to walk around. The Hermitage is a
jaw-dropping experience. St Peter is definitely a lot more friendlier
and easier than Moscow, but the food is still mostly crap.

After that, I headed to Tallinn in Estonia, and was glad to leave
Russia. I can't see myself returning to the place ever. The visa
process itself is enough to completely shit you to tears. You really
need to view Russia as an experience, not a holiday destination.
Considerable effort is required to go there, and you need to assume
that no-one speaks any english. Note that Russia truly does not try to
welcome you. You are a guest of the state, and are reminded as such
when you apply for your visa.

Is that what you wanted to know?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:01:57 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

<snipped for brevity>
    |
    |OK, I was always interested in Russia, coz it's a strange beast of a
    |place. The mentality of the residents is in a world of its own. The
    |visa process is utterly bewildering for newcomers, and seasoned
    |travellers alike.

I'm planning a trip for next year and was tentatively including a
couple of nights in St Petersburg, flying in from Helsinki and flying
out to Heathrow.

Could you expand on those visa problems, and what I should do (in Oz)
before travel to minimise them please? Any advice on other aspects -
getting around town by taxi or public transport when walking could be
difficult, local tour operators for the palaces, cathedrals etc -
would be much appreciated.

Is a couple of nights worth the hassle?


Cheers, Alan

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 10:24:41 +1100, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:01:57 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
    ><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
    ><snipped for brevity>
    >|
    >|OK, I was always interested in Russia, coz it's a strange beast of a
    >|place. The mentality of the residents is in a world of its own. The
    >|visa process is utterly bewildering for newcomers, and seasoned
    >|travellers alike.
    >I'm planning a trip for next year and was tentatively including a
    >couple of nights in St Petersburg, flying in from Helsinki and flying
    >out to Heathrow.
    >Could you expand on those visa problems, and what I should do (in Oz)
    >before travel to minimise them please? Any advice on other aspects -
    >getting around town by taxi or public transport when walking could be
    >difficult, local tour operators for the palaces, cathedrals etc -
    >would be much appreciated.
    >Is a couple of nights worth the hassle?

Probably not. The entire visa process can be expensive, and it's time
consuming. You really should have a look at Moscow too if you are
going to make the effort. Moscow is far more representative of the
real Russia by all accounts. Either way, Russia is not a drop-in,
drop-out destination. It's just not setup for that.

From a previous post I made:
-------------------
http://www.visatorussia.com

are fast. They can get one to you in 24 (US$45) or 48 hours (US$30),
and have good customer service. You don't need to book accomodation in
advance, but do need to provide a fax number for them.

Make certain with the Russian Consulate that they accept faxed copies.
Most do now I believe.

They will send you both the invitation, and the tour voucher.
Everything you need. I did this a few months back from Australia, and
was quite impressed. They have good customer support, and their staff
all speak good english. They are supported by a company called
Intelservice, that ARE an official Russian tour company.

Make sure you enter your details EXTREMELY carefully, and check
everything about 3 times over, especially after you get your visa from
the Consulate.

Good luck.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Viking wrote:
    > Icono Clast wrote:
    >> Viking wrote:
    >>> The wallet was in my front pocket . . . I've probably worn an
    >>> inside wallet longer than you.
    >>
    >> I know what a wallet is but I don't know what an "inside wallet"
    >> is.

    > Worn inside the pants, with a belt loop.

I don't get it. Isn't a wallet in a pocket "inside the pants"? Most
pants have belt loops. Do you mean the wallet has one? Do you then
run your belt inside your pants and through the wallet's loop? I
don't get it.

    > As I've been saying, it happened some years ago; readers are
    > informed about that. Some people have told me the area's improved,
    > some have said no. What makes you think my experience has no
    > relevance to a traveller today?? It's not like it happened 500
    > years ago, Barbara.


Barbara Vaughan said:
    > I'm not saying it can't happen, but to continue to warn people
    > based on an outdated experience is not helpful.

It is also quite possible that just a handful of people, who might
have moved to a different neighborhood, town, province, or country,
were the cause of all those problems about which Viking talks. Once
they're busted (perhaps the day after his departure) and convicted,
they're outta business.
__________________________________________________ __________
One of (as of 2003) 751,682 residents of San Francisco
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 02:42:40 -0800, Icono Clast <[email protected]>
wrote:

    |
    |I don't get it. Isn't a wallet in a pocket "inside the pants"? Most
    |pants have belt loops. Do you mean the wallet has one? Do you then
    |run your belt inside your pants and through the wallet's loop? I
    |don't get it.

Pick-pockets are adept at stealing wallets from pockets.
Additionally, they can slip out while you're sleeping in planes,
trains etc - or be assisted to slip out.

The "secret" wallet is designed to be worn between your underwear and
the inside of your pants, with a loop that you slip your belt through
to stop it slipping down. The loop has a system that assists in
retrieving the wallet easily when you need it.

I found it very useful, and easy to access at the times I needed it.
It gave a reassuring sense of security that you always knew where
those critical items were. After an initial strangeness, it was quite
comfortable as long as it wasn't overfull and the pants weren't too
tight.

I kept the critical items in it:

Passport.
International Driver's Licence.
Airline tickets.
Backup credit card ( I used MC and kept my visa in the "secret
wallet", my wife used Visa and kept MC in hers, which had a different
design).
$100 or equivalent in local currency.






Cheers, Alan, Australia

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:59:38 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    |>Is a couple of nights worth the hassle?
    |
    |Probably not. The entire visa process can be expensive, and it's time
    |consuming. You really should have a look at Moscow too if you are
    |going to make the effort. Moscow is far more representative of the
    |real Russia by all accounts. Either way, Russia is not a drop-in,
    |drop-out destination. It's just not setup for that.
    |
    |From a previous post I made:
    |-------------------
    |http://www.visatorussia.com
    |
    |are fast. They can get one to you in 24 (US$45) or 48 hours (US$30),
    |and have good customer service. You don't need to book accomodation in
    |advance, but do need to provide a fax number for them.
    |
    |Make certain with the Russian Consulate that they accept faxed copies.
    |Most do now I believe.
    |
    |They will send you both the invitation, and the tour voucher.
    |Everything you need. I did this a few months back from Australia, and
    |was quite impressed. They have good customer support, and their staff
    |all speak good english. They are supported by a company called
    |Intelservice, that ARE an official Russian tour company.
    |
    |Make sure you enter your details EXTREMELY carefully, and check
    |everything about 3 times over, especially after you get your visa from
    |the Consulate.
    |
    |Good luck.
    |--
    |---
    |DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
    |---
    |--

Thanks for the detailed reply and the links. I don't have a lot of
interest in Moscow, my primary interest being in the palaces,
cathedrals and the city itself of St Petersburg. On the various rtw
tickets I'm looking at, St Petersburg is possible but awkward, Moscow
is an extra cost.

Cheers, Alan, Australia

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 02:42:40 -0800, Icono Clast <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >I don't get it. Isn't a wallet in a pocket "inside the pants"? Most
    >pants have belt loops. Do you mean the wallet has one? Do you then
    >run your belt inside your pants and through the wallet's loop? I
    >don't get it.

You put the belt through the loop, and put the wallet inside the
pants, not in any pocket. It's called an "inside wallet".

On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 18:01:57 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    >Is that what you wanted to know?

Yep, thanks, I'm going to pass that on to my sweetie, and we'll
discuss. Thanks for taking the time to write it, DFM. (And now prepare
yourself for the "I visited Russia and had a wonderful time" posts
that *inevitably* will appear here!)

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 09:59:38 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    >Probably not. The entire visa process can be expensive, and it's time
    >consuming. You really should have a look at Moscow too if you are
    >going to make the effort. Moscow is far more representative of the
    >real Russia by all accounts. Either way, Russia is not a drop-in,
    >drop-out destination. It's just not setup for that.

We were thinking of a cruise, no visa needed (you have to stay with
the tour group, though). They'll also handle transport probs
(presumably...).