Folks,
Thanks a lot for the overwhelming response.. Wow, this is the best
newsgroup that I have come across so far!!

    >From all the suggestions, it looks like London/Paris is the consensus
option. We might extend for a couple of days and visit the smaller
towns around Paris..

Also, thanks a lot for the veggie restaurant list.. that will surely be
helpful.

On the same note, any recommendations for some good medival
forts/castles to visit around London/Paris?

Thanks,
svg345.

On 7 Jan 2005 11:21:38 -0800, in rec.travel.europe, "svg345" <[email protected]> arranged
some electrons, so they looked like this :

...
... Folks,
... Thanks a lot for the overwhelming response.. Wow, this is the best
... newsgroup that I have come across so far!!
...
... >From all the suggestions, it looks like London/Paris is the consensus
... option. We might extend for a couple of days and visit the smaller
... towns around Paris..
...
... Also, thanks a lot for the veggie restaurant list.. that will surely be
... helpful.
...
... On the same note, any recommendations for some good medival
... forts/castles to visit around London/Paris?

Choose here : http://www.casteland.com/puk/castle/idf/index.htm.

Folks,
Thanks a lot for the overwhelming response.. Wow, this is the best
newsgroup that I have come across so far!!

    >From all the suggestions, it looks like London/Paris is the consensus
option. We might extend for a couple of days and visit the smaller
towns around Paris..

Also, thanks a lot for the veggie restaurant list.. that will surely be
helpful.

On the same note, any recommendations for some good medival
forts/castles to visit around London/Paris?

Thanks,
svg345.

svg345 wrote:

    > On the same note, any recommendations for some good medival
    > forts/castles to visit around London/Paris?

Well, the Louvre has a medieval donjon, and of course many of the churches
and cathedrals date from that period.

The more famous area chateaux date from a later period. Personally I find
the older stuff more interesting (as you seem to), but chacon a son goute.

If you are interested in old, I suggest the Roman baths (in Paris) and
especially the old Roman Area off of Rue Monge. A short walk from the street
markets in the 13eme and a great place for a vegetarian picnic.

Have a great trip!

"Anonymouse" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Hi,
    > I bet the fish eating "vegetarian" consumes dairy and eggs too.
    > all of which make that person a non-vegetarian.
    > Thomas wrote:

As far as I know

Vegetarian purist doesn'tdoesn't eat Meat or Fish.
Demi-Veg generally means Fish eating.
Only Vegan excludes Dairy


However all come under the broad heading Vegetarian (or faddy or awkward
dending on your perspective)

Lots of different reasonings and motives. Far too complex for her.
--
John Owens
www.goodviews.co.uk
Fax +44 1509 891022

"Thomas" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > > As a vegetarian (albeit a demi-veg, i.e. I eat fish) I would suggest
    > > dropping Germany and Austria anyway.
    > Thats funny, I'm a non smoker apart from Rothmans.
He He
I bet you've never met a non smoker who only has the occasional cigar either
!

--
John Owens
www.goodviews.co.uk
Fax +44 1509 891022

    >>>>Don't listen to all the naysayers saying you need a week to see one
    >>>>city, if you spend three days in each with a day between travelling
    >>>>that's certainly enough to get a flavour of both of the places. I'm sure
    >>>>you will have a fantastic time :-)

There are different styles in how people find meaning and value in
travelling between cities, and I think you have hit it on the head. Some
people have the interest, patience, and dalliance-appreciation to spend a
week in one place, and feel like it is just scratching the surface. Others
get bored within a couple days, and appreciate movement and variety. I am
completely in the latter camp--but that does not make the former any less
worthwhile and genuine. If I were the OP, I would do two places on the
one-week trip in order to help try to figure if they lean toward falling
toward the camp of being in-depthers or toward being travel-maniacs!

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 00:56:38 -0500, ohaya <[email protected]> wrote:


    >Having just been to London (1st timers like you :)!) in December, and
    >given just 1 week, I'd suggest something like London, and while you're
    >there, maybe a day, or an overnight trip via train to Paris. We were in
    >London for just 5 days, and I had been toying with the idea of a day
    >trip to Paris (there are a couple of packages, e.g., Evan Evans, that do
    >this), but dropped the idea before we went.
You can certainly do Paris from London (or vice versa) as a long day
trip, either by the Eurostar train or by air. The overall time
between city centres is about the same by each, though personally I
prefer the train for lack of hassle.

There are NO overnight trains between London and Paris: re-reading the
previous message I think Jim was talking about spending a night in
Paris and taking a daytime train in each direction.

If possible, as somebody else has suggested in the thread, I'd suggest
getting an open-jaw ticket where you fly from home to one place and
fly back from another place.

Martin

On Fri, 07 Jan 2005 03:20:31 -0800, Icono Clast <[email protected]>
wrote:


    >Getting a decent meal in London isn't impossible. During two weeks of
    >eating there, usually fixing my own breakfast, I had one good meal
    >that I didn't prepare. There's a Tibetan restaurant at Leicester
    >Square where I think we were served by the owner. It was quite good
    >and less expensive, and a far greater value, than most other places.

A lot of good restaurants are slightly unusual/exotic; however if
you're looking for good food and good value, Leicester Square is not
the place to start! If you *do* stay close to Leicester Square, there
is a good range of Chinese restaurants around - albeit probably rather
tame compared to those in San Francisco.

<snipped>

    >I have never seen lower quality produce anywhere on Earth than what I
    >saw for sale in London.

I can believe this in the case of some convenience stores in tourist
areas, but there are a *lot* of places to get good quality ingredients
and if the original poster is going the do-it-yourself route for food
it would be worth seeking out a good supermarket that is accessible
from wherever they are staying

As others have said, Britain is an easy country in which to be
vegetarian. Unless you have very strict dietary requirements, no need
to seek out specific vegetarian restaurants as just about everywhere
will have some vegetarian options on the menu. However one excellent
option for lunch which *is* veggie in the City of London is the Place
Below - http://www.theplacebelow.co.uk/home.htm



Martin

On 7 Jan 2005 11:21:38 -0800, "svg345" <[email protected]> wrote:


    >On the same note, any recommendations for some good medival
    >forts/castles to visit around London/Paris?

The Tower of London surely qualifies as a good mediaeval fort actually
*in* London - http://www.hrp.org.uk/webcode/tower_home.asp . Windsor
Castle (just outside London and easily accessible by train) has been
around in some form or other since mediaeval times, and is well worth
a visit.

Otherwise, if you want to see mediaeval, and sometimes earier,
buildings, visit a cathedral or two. St Albans, again just outside
London and an easy train ride, has a magnificent cathedral, some of it
dating back to the 11th century, and also has the ruins of the Roman
city of Verulaneum. Or you might consider Ely Cathedral, of a similar
age and a striking presence in a flat landscape. Ely is close to
Cambridge, which also has a lot of history, and visiting the two would
make an easy day trip out of London.

Martin

On 6 Jan 2005 15:52:59 -0800, "svg345" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Hi,
    >We (I and my wife) plan to take a 1-week trip to Europe this summer
    >(may/june). Being first timers, we want to see all places and
    >everything :) which is impossible in the small amount of time we have.
    >Any suggestions on places to visit, taking the following into
    >consideration?
    >1. Would like to see atleast 2 major cities.
    >2. But, we are not really into art/galleries, etc.
    >3. We are vegetarian.

I see you already have some good suggestions. I have two other
suggestions. First, consider pairing two cities and finding a budget
airline one-way flight between them. For instance, London and some
other European city connected by Ryanair or some other budget airfare.
Second, buy an open-jaws ticket that arrives in the first city and
leaves from the second, so that you don't have to waste time
backtracking.

By the way, I thought I had bookmarked a web site that searched a
large number of budget airlines for cheap fares, but now I can't find
it. It wasn't apple, which really has a limited selection of airlines.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn wrote:
    > Icono Clast wrote:
    >> London has the worst food of any major city I've ever visited.
    >
    > Given that you only mentioned Leicester Square,

During two weeks, had two meals there. Oh, and a slice of ersatz
"pizza". Ate in many parts of town.

    >> There's a "Mexican" restaurant at Leicester Square that is
    >> ersatz Mexican only in décor.
    >
    > I think I know where you're talking about. Why did you go even go
    > inside?

Because my host had never had Mexican food. Else I'd've not.

    >> I have never seen lower quality produce anywhere on Earth than
    >> what I saw for sale in London.
    >
    > You clearly didn't pay attention, then.

Then how could I have made the observation? My first observation was
in an enormous supermarket. Subsequent observations were made outside
of groceries in Queens Park (where I stayed) and elsewhere.

The finest produce I've ever seen was displayed along rue Rivoli in
Paris. Wow!

    >> "Icono Clast" wrote
    >>> A man who grew up in England told me "My mother thought
    >>> chlorophyll was poisonous so she boiled vegetables until they
    >>> were white".
    >
    > Which century was that?

XX.

    >>> London has the worst food of any major city I've ever visited.
    >
    > There is more to Britain than London and more to London than the
    > tourist areas.

True. We drove up to Blackpool with several stops along the way, most
memorable, other than Alton Towers and going to a dance in a small
town, a village pub for dinner.

    >>> I have never seen lower quality produce anywhere on Earth than
    >>> what I saw for sale in London.
    >
    > In which case, you were shopping in the wrong places.

See above.
__________________________________________________ ____________
A San Francisco glutton who says: "You serve it, I'll eat it!"
http://geocities.com/dancefest/ http://geocities.com/iconoc/
ICQ: http://wwp.mirabilis.com/19098103 IClast at SFbay Net

On Sat, 08 Jan 2005 12:14:18 +0100, B Vaughan<[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 6 Jan 2005 15:52:59 -0800, "svg345" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>Hi,
    >>We (I and my wife) plan to take a 1-week trip to Europe this summer
    >>(may/june). Being first timers, we want to see all places and
    >>everything :) which is impossible in the small amount of time we have.
    >>Any suggestions on places to visit, taking the following into
    >>consideration?
    >>1. Would like to see atleast 2 major cities.
    >>2. But, we are not really into art/galleries, etc.
    >>3. We are vegetarian.
    >I see you already have some good suggestions. I have two other
    >suggestions. First, consider pairing two cities and finding a budget
    >airline one-way flight between them. For instance, London and some
    >other European city connected by Ryanair or some other budget airfare.

London & Amsterdam via Easyjet or York and Amsterdam with Jet2 from
Leeds.

    >Second, buy an open-jaws ticket that arrives in the first city and
    >leaves from the second, so that you don't have to waste time
    >backtracking.
    >By the way, I thought I had bookmarked a web site that searched a
    >large number of budget airlines for cheap fares, but now I can't find
    >it. It wasn't apple, which really has a limited selection of airlines.

--
Martin

"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1105185771.6d36ea72ce5230f5e6767e4a348def4a@t eranews...
    > chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn wrote:
    >> Icono Clast wrote:
    >>> London has the worst food of any major city I've ever visited.
    >> Given that you only mentioned Leicester Square,
    > During two weeks, had two meals there. Oh, and a slice of ersatz
    > "pizza". Ate in many parts of town.
    >>> There's a "Mexican" restaurant at Leicester Square that is
    >>> ersatz Mexican only in décor.
    >> I think I know where you're talking about. Why did you go even go inside?
    > Because my host had never had Mexican food. Else I'd've not.
    >>> I have never seen lower quality produce anywhere on Earth than
    >>> what I saw for sale in London.
    >> You clearly didn't pay attention, then.
    > Then how could I have made the observation? My first observation was
    > in an enormous supermarket. Subsequent observations were made outside
    > of groceries in Queens Park (where I stayed) and elsewhere.
    > The finest produce I've ever seen was displayed along rue Rivoli in
    > Paris. Wow!

and how can you tell by just looking?

Have you fallen for the supermarket's trick of: "if it's perfectly shaped,
without blemishes and polished but tastes of a bar of soap" it's good
quality, but if it's "mishaped, pot-marked and dull looking, but tastes
wonderful" it deserves no place on our shelves.

FWIW this is the rule in most of the worlds supermarkets.

tim

"Icono Clast" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:1105185771.6d36ea72ce5230f5e6767e4a348def4a@t eranews...
....
    >>>> A man who grew up in England told me "My mother thought
    >>>> chlorophyll was poisonous so she boiled vegetables until they
    >>>> were white".
    >> Which century was that?
    > XX.

Early 20th, from the description, and probably said mostly in jest at that.
Apart from the Christmas tradition of destroying brussel sprouts, in an
attempt to pretend that they are in some way edible, I doubt many people
bother to boil green vegetables anymore. It is much easier to steam them in
a microwave or stir-fry them in a wok.

....
    >>>> I have never seen lower quality produce anywhere on Earth than
    >>>> what I saw for sale in London.
    >> In which case, you were shopping in the wrong places.
    > See above.

My comment still stands. Nobody who knows what they are doing would look for
decent vegetables either in a supermarket or outside a greengrocers.
Supermarkets buy on the basis of whether the size, shape and colour are
right, with little regard for quality. Greengrocers know that people are
more likely to buy stuff that they can pick up on their way into the shop,
rather than search the shelves inside, so they use those stands to shift the
stuff they know is getting past its best.

Colin Bignell