jbk

On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:38:18 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 30/05/05 19:26, in article [email protected],
    >"Mxsmanic" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> [email protected] writes:
    >>
    >>> Second, it is absurd to say that the problem of the dollar (whatever
    >>> problem that is supposed to be) has nothing to do with the Euro.
    >>
    >> The problem with the dollar has everything to do with the United States,
    >> and very little to do with anything else.
    >>
    >>> Fools mainly think that a so-called weak dollar is a problem. In
    >>> fact, it is an adjustment mechanism for an economy and generally gets
    >>> "weaker" when that country's economy is doing BETTER than those of
    >>> countries whose currencies are getting "stronger."
    >>
    >> Uh-huh. Time will tell.
    >It already has. The dollar was yo-yoed for years. it lost value vis-vis
    >the DM and Swiss France on a steady basis.

This bullshit meaning that the dollar has both gotten weaker and
stronger over the years against these currencies despite what trade
balances have been doing (which you will now see have completely
disappeared from the thread now that Evleth has once again been shown
to be the uniformed fool he is again). Exactly contradicting what you
said when you said that the rate was a function of the trade balance
(which is bullshit) and confirming what I said. Evleth will now try
to bullshit everyone by trying to change tunes and try to make you
believe this is what he originally said, when it is exactly the
opposit.

    >The value of the dollar is also market determined on the exchange markets.
    >There are only several places the dollar can go. It can be held as a reserve
    >or sent back either in the form of general investment or specifically into
    >US government bonds. The latter has the advantage in that is does not have
    >to be "managed". Buying GM or Ford Motor bonds can be more dangerous.
    >Buying Enron would have been been more dangerous. Buying US real estate
    >right now might not be wise. So the safe haven are the bonds.

I got news for you idiot. The ONLY place the value of the dollar is
determined is on the exchange markets. By well over a trillion
dollars of trading a day.

    >The world is awash in dollars, it is not awash in euros.

Another totally meanlingless statement by this idiot.

jbk

On Mon, 30 May 2005 10:45:24 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> [email protected] writes:
    >>
    >> > Second, it is absurd to say that the problem of the dollar (whatever
    >> > problem that is supposed to be) has nothing to do with the Euro.
    >>
    >> The problem with the dollar has everything to do with the United States,
    >> and very little to do with anything else.
    >Your wrong. China has undervalued its currency more than 30%, it is
    >pegged to the dollar artificially, this has huge consequences on
    >balance of trade.

Of course, they're wrong as I said from the beginning. They are just
totally ignorant of how exchange rates and markets work so they just
babble out their amateur hour views which are just laughable as usual.

jbk

On Mon, 30 May 2005 19:49:21 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 30/05/05 19:45, in article 300520051045245704%[email protected], "Go Fig"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> The problem with the dollar has everything to do with the United States,
    >>> and very little to do with anything else.
    >>
    >>
    >> Your wrong. China has undervalued its currency more than 30%, it is
    >> pegged to the dollar artificially, this has huge consequences on
    >> balance of trade.
    >Eventually it will have to yield. What will they do with all those dollars?
    >They hold hundreds of billion is US bonds. Eventually these will devalue in
    >face of the rise of their own money.

The same thing all other countries do you idiot. Hold them in reserve
and use them to settle their obligations with other countries. Which
is how the international economy works idiot. That's why it's called
a reserve currency idiot.

Deep Foiled Malls

On Mon, 30 May 2005 10:45:24 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >> [email protected] writes:
    >>
    >> > Second, it is absurd to say that the problem of the dollar (whatever
    >> > problem that is supposed to be) has nothing to do with the Euro.
    >>
    >> The problem with the dollar has everything to do with the United States,
    >> and very little to do with anything else.
    >Your wrong. China has undervalued its currency more than 30%, it is
    >pegged to the dollar artificially, this has huge consequences on
    >balance of trade.

The US is reaping what it has sown. Its assumption of continued growth
is starting to show some strain. Trying to blame external entities is
sad. If America can claim the glory for it's wealth, it can take
responsibility for the problems of its own making.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

jbk

On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:41:43 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    >On Mon, 30 May 2005 10:45:24 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
    >><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> [email protected] writes:
    >>>
    >>> > Second, it is absurd to say that the problem of the dollar (whatever
    >>> > problem that is supposed to be) has nothing to do with the Euro.
    >>>
    >>> The problem with the dollar has everything to do with the United States,
    >>> and very little to do with anything else.
    >>Your wrong. China has undervalued its currency more than 30%, it is
    >>pegged to the dollar artificially, this has huge consequences on
    >>balance of trade.
    >The US is reaping what it has sown. Its assumption of continued growth
    >is starting to show some strain. Trying to blame external entities is
    >sad. If America can claim the glory for it's wealth, it can take
    >responsibility for the problems of its own making.

At least we have a growth rate that can show some strain, which is
more than you can say for most of Europe and Japan for well over a
decade now. But don't worry. You all can continue to live off your
welfare until there just isn't any more economy left to support it.
This is the same leftist babbling that hasn't once yet turned out to
be true (which REALLY pisses them off) since they babbled the same
during the Reagan administration during and after which we have record
growth and wealth increases while they stagnated in Europe. Yeah,
you're right. We take responsibility for that. HAHAHAHAHA! Do you
morons take responsibility for the ridiculous unemployment rates, low
growth and general lack of opportunity that you regulary produce year
in and year out? And what he said about China is exactly correct
which anyone with a brain well knows, as the Chinese certainly do
since there economy is living off of us.

Go Fig

In article <[email protected]>,
<[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Mon, 30 May 2005 20:41:43 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
    > <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
    >
    > >On Mon, 30 May 2005 10:45:24 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >>In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
    > >><[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>> [email protected] writes:
    > >>>
    > >>> > Second, it is absurd to say that the problem of the dollar (whatever
    > >>> > problem that is supposed to be) has nothing to do with the Euro.
    > >>>
    > >>> The problem with the dollar has everything to do with the United States,
    > >>> and very little to do with anything else.
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>Your wrong. China has undervalued its currency more than 30%, it is
    > >>pegged to the dollar artificially, this has huge consequences on
    > >>balance of trade.
    > >
    > >The US is reaping what it has sown. Its assumption of continued growth
    > >is starting to show some strain. Trying to blame external entities is
    > >sad. If America can claim the glory for it's wealth, it can take
    > >responsibility for the problems of its own making.
    >
    > At least we have a growth rate that can show some strain, which is
    > more than you can say for most of Europe and Japan for well over a
    > decade now. But don't worry. You all can continue to live off your
    > welfare until there just isn't any more economy left to support it.
    > This is the same leftist babbling that hasn't once yet turned out to
    > be true (which REALLY pisses them off) since they babbled the same
    > during the Reagan administration during and after which we have record
    > growth and wealth increases while they stagnated in Europe. Yeah,
    > you're right. We take responsibility for that. HAHAHAHAHA! Do you
    > morons take responsibility for the ridiculous unemployment rates, low
    > growth and general lack of opportunity that you regulary produce year
    > in and year out? And what he said about China is exactly correct
    > which anyone with a brain well knows, as the Chinese certainly do
    > since there economy is living off of us.

On top of the artificial valuing, they deny the U.S. access to their
markets... it took "Toys r Us' more than a decade to open 1 lousy store
in China and our service and many financial fields have no access.

jay
Mon May 30, 2005
mailto:[email protected]

Earl Evleth

On 30/05/05 22:41, in article [email protected],
"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:

    > The US is reaping what it has sown. Its assumption of continued growth
    > is starting to show some strain. Trying to blame external entities is
    > sad. If America can claim the glory for it's wealth, it can take
    > responsibility for the problems of its own making.


The news today said that China, holding some 400 billion in US bonds
and having sponsored 25% of the recent trade deficit is planning a little
fun with the US bond markets, in order to teach the Americans a lesson.

Should be interesting, if it happens.

Earl

Nitram

On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:16:44 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:


    >On top of the artificial valuing, they deny the U.S. access to their
    >markets... it took "Toys r Us' more than a decade to open 1 lousy store
    >in China and our service and many financial fields have no access.

Since that's where most of the stuff is made perhaps the Chinese
thought "Toys r Us' was a trick.

Earl Evleth

On 31/05/05 9:17, in article [email protected],
"nitram" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > On Mon, 30 May 2005 21:16:44 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >
    >> On top of the artificial valuing, they deny the U.S. access to their
    >> markets... it took "Toys r Us' more than a decade to open 1 lousy store
    >> in China and our service and many financial fields have no access.
    >
    > Since that's where most of the stuff is made perhaps the Chinese
    > thought "Toys r Us' was a trick.


Does Go Fig speak the language of "the buyer". This is top secret
but one sells in the language of the buyer.

jbk

    >> >The US is reaping what it has sown. Its assumption of continued growth
    >> >is starting to show some strain. Trying to blame external entities is
    >> >sad. If America can claim the glory for it's wealth, it can take
    >> >responsibility for the problems of its own making.
    >>
    >> At least we have a growth rate that can show some strain, which is
    >> more than you can say for most of Europe and Japan for well over a
    >> decade now. But don't worry. You all can continue to live off your
    >> welfare until there just isn't any more economy left to support it.
    >> This is the same leftist babbling that hasn't once yet turned out to
    >> be true (which REALLY pisses them off) since they babbled the same
    >> during the Reagan administration during and after which we have record
    >> growth and wealth increases while they stagnated in Europe. Yeah,
    >> you're right. We take responsibility for that. HAHAHAHAHA! Do you
    >> morons take responsibility for the ridiculous unemployment rates, low
    >> growth and general lack of opportunity that you regulary produce year
    >> in and year out? And what he said about China is exactly correct
    >> which anyone with a brain well knows, as the Chinese certainly do
    >> since there economy is living off of us.
    >On top of the artificial valuing, they deny the U.S. access to their
    >markets... it took "Toys r Us' more than a decade to open 1 lousy store
    >in China and our service and many financial fields have no access.

And stealing anything they can get their hands on.

jbk

On Tue, 31 May 2005 08:52:36 +0200, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 30/05/05 22:41, in article [email protected],
    >"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
    >> The US is reaping what it has sown. Its assumption of continued growth
    >> is starting to show some strain. Trying to blame external entities is
    >> sad. If America can claim the glory for it's wealth, it can take
    >> responsibility for the problems of its own making.
    >The news today said that China, holding some 400 billion in US bonds
    >and having sponsored 25% of the recent trade deficit is planning a little
    >fun with the US bond markets, in order to teach the Americans a lesson.
    >Should be interesting, if it happens.

Just what a moron like you would like. If that happens and the
fallout is that the US economy heads for a recession, raising the EU
unemployment rate to about 15% we'll see how much a moron like you
will laugh then, won't we?

Jordi

[email protected] ha escrito:

    > Wrong. As I said, there are two sides to this equation and the weaker
    > dollar helps US exports and economic growth and,

Right. The traditional reason a currency weakens is to recover from a
bad trade deficit (others having to see with inflation, which is not
the case here). The dollar stays low, and the trade deficit shows no
sign of improving, that is why it will probably go even lower in the
mid-long term.

Luckily for the US most critical materials are pegged in some way to
the USD (oil, Gulf currencies, China, etc.) should that not be the
case, the situation could not have lasted for that long.

conversely, hurts
    > that of the EU countries. Just go ask those EU companies whose
    > profits are getting whacked so much if it's not a matter of the Euro
    > being worth too much and see what answer you get.

It is a major issue, as companies are shifting more and more to
intra-EU trade and exports to more 'protected' markets like Eastern
Europe. South America, for example is experiencing a major decrease in
EU origin imports, so EU companies are now buying cheap big stakes on
the continent.


J.

jbk

On 31 May 2005 04:16:20 -0700, "Jordi" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >[email protected] ha escrito:
    >> Wrong. As I said, there are two sides to this equation and the weaker
    >> dollar helps US exports and economic growth and,
    >Right. The traditional reason a currency weakens is to recover from a
    >bad trade deficit (others having to see with inflation, which is not
    >the case here). The dollar stays low, and the trade deficit shows no
    >sign of improving, that is why it will probably go even lower in the
    >mid-long term.

Actually, the normal reason is that the interest rate paid on similar
deposits of the currencies in question are not sufficient to keep the
exchange rate where it is, causing funds to shift in one direction or
another until equilibrium is reached. Interest rates are a function
of inflation which, in turn, is a function of commodity and other
prices, etc. etc. This is why exchange rates are always market driven
and determined, with occasional blips like the French vote causing a
short term movement in one direction or another until the normal
market factors once again take hold. And, again, the budget deficit
in the US is much more a determinate of this than the trade balance,
which, as I said, has been in deficit for the US for so long now no
one can remember when it was in surplus. As a result, the dollar has
gotten weaker or stronger much more in line with whether the budget is
in deficit or not. And what is going on with the economies of other
nations relative to the US.

    >Luckily for the US most critical materials are pegged in some way to
    >the USD (oil, Gulf currencies, China, etc.) should that not be the
    >case, the situation could not have lasted for that long.

Actually, this is much more lucky for Europe than the US. When the
dollar is weak, as it is now, Europe benefits by being able to get its
commodities like oil cheaper than it otherwise would. When the dollar
is strong, commodity prices are almost always weak which also makes
them relatively cheaper for Europe. What is lucky for the US having
to pay $50 a barrel for oil (or about 40 Euros) as opposed to having
paid $25 a barrel a few years ago (when it was about 20 Euros)? The
difference being a 100% change in dollar terms while only about a 38%
change in Euro terms? Clearly, this has hit the US much harder than
Europe.

    >conversely, hurts
    >> that of the EU countries. Just go ask those EU companies whose
    >> profits are getting whacked so much if it's not a matter of the Euro
    >> being worth too much and see what answer you get.
    >It is a major issue, as companies are shifting more and more to
    >intra-EU trade and exports to more 'protected' markets like Eastern
    >Europe. South America, for example is experiencing a major decrease in
    >EU origin imports, so EU companies are now buying cheap big stakes on
    >the continent.

I'm sure they are. That's a natural reaction when something like this
happens. Problem is, however, that European economies in general are
not growing anywhere near enough to offset the US situation, so
overall, this is going to continue to be a major problem for them.

Poldy

In article <[email protected]>,
Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:

    > lola writes:
    >
    > > We heard the Euro would weaken. The last time we were in Paris the Euro
    > > went from $0.85 all the way up to $1.29. We had to leave, we couldn't
    > > afford it. We miss it and would like to return...is it bad to hope for
    > > a weaker Euro?
    >
    > No, but it's bad to hope for a drop in value of any currency to match
    > the drop in value of the dollar, which is being driven down by U.S.
    > economic problems. It's not a matter of the euro being worth too much;
    > it's a matter of the dollar losing its value. And so the real problem
    > is the loss in value of the dollar. Driving the euro down would be
    > committing two wrongs to make a right, which wouldn't be sensible.

Yeah but it sounds like European economies aren't going great either.
Germany has 12% unemployment and France is over 10%. GDP growth is
nonexistent.

Jordi

[email protected] ha escrito:
    > On 31 May 2005 04:16:20 -0700, "Jordi" <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > >Right. The traditional reason a currency weakens is to recover from a
    > >bad trade deficit (others having to see with inflation, which is not
    > >the case here). The dollar stays low, and the trade deficit shows no
    > >sign of improving, that is why it will probably go even lower in the
    > >mid-long term.
    > Actually, the normal reason is that the interest rate paid on similar
    > deposits of the currencies in question are not sufficient to keep the
    > exchange rate where it is, causing funds to shift in one direction or
    > another until equilibrium is reached. Interest rates are a function
    > of inflation which, in turn, is a function of commodity and other
    > prices, etc. etc.

Interest rates must have inflation deducted in order to be comparable,
anyway, they are set by the central authorities of the country in
question.

The federal reserve is deliberately keeping the interest rates in a way
the dollar is kept in all-time lows. Be it to keep American exports or
to choke European ones doesn't really matter.

This is why exchange rates are always market driven
    > and determined, with occasional blips like the French vote causing a
    > short term movement in one direction or another until the normal
    > market factors once again take hold. And, again, the budget deficit
    > in the US is much more a determinate of this than the trade balance,
    > which, as I said, has been in deficit for the US for so long now no
    > one can remember when it was in surplus. As a result, the dollar has
    > gotten weaker or stronger much more in line with whether the budget is
    > in deficit or not. And what is going on with the economies of other
    > nations relative to the US.
    > >
    > >Luckily for the US most critical materials are pegged in some way to
    > >the USD (oil, Gulf currencies, China, etc.) should that not be the
    > >case, the situation could not have lasted for that long.
    > Actually, this is much more lucky for Europe than the US. When the
    > dollar is weak, as it is now, Europe benefits by being able to get its
    > commodities like oil cheaper than it otherwise would. When the dollar
    > is strong, commodity prices are almost always weak which also makes
    > them relatively cheaper for Europe. What is lucky for the US having
    > to pay $50 a barrel for oil (or about 40 Euros) as opposed to having
    > paid $25 a barrel a few years ago (when it was about 20 Euros)? The
    > difference being a 100% change in dollar terms while only about a 38%
    > change in Euro terms? Clearly, this has hit the US much harder than
    > Europe.

So imagine how the situation would be for the US if oil would not be
paid in Dollars, apart from the price rise they would have faced a even
greater nett price rise due to their own currency devaluation.


    > >
    > >It is a major issue, as companies are shifting more and more to
    > >intra-EU trade and exports to more 'protected' markets like Eastern
    > >Europe. South America, for example is experiencing a major decrease in
    > >EU origin imports, so EU companies are now buying cheap big stakes on
    > >the continent.
    > I'm sure they are. That's a natural reaction when something like this
    > happens. Problem is, however, that European economies in general are
    > not growing anywhere near enough to offset the US situation, so
    > overall, this is going to continue to be a major problem for them.

The aim is not to offset anyone, but to keep/improve the living
standards of the citizens.

J.