French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Jun 7th 2005, 6:14 pm
#196
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
On 7/06/05 19:57, in article [email protected], "emilia"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> It is a fascinating period and much different than now. The world went
>> crazy.
>>
>
> Is the world sane now?
>
A bit more. We have had over 50 years of nuclear weapons without one being
used, "we" were too afraid to. That means that we did think that one out
rationally.
We have nobody of the "stature" of Hitler and Stalin around either.
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> It is a fascinating period and much different than now. The world went
>> crazy.
>>
>
> Is the world sane now?
>
A bit more. We have had over 50 years of nuclear weapons without one being
used, "we" were too afraid to. That means that we did think that one out
rationally.
We have nobody of the "stature" of Hitler and Stalin around either.
Jun 7th 2005, 6:47 pm
#197
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
On 7/06/05 21:50, in article
1gxt0ji.17n309fnt7kitN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com, "chancellor of
the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> []
>> Ok, but what about collective pressures like: 'Haven't you killfiled
>> him yet'?
>
> Bwahahahahaha!
It is certainly not pressure, but a suggestion.
The practice of "exclusion" from a group as a punishment for individual
transgressions is as old as man. News groups have no obvious rules and
certainly not laws except the accusation of abuse to the service provider.
Next, the news groups are relatively new means of communication so the
informal rules of behavior have not been fully worked out.
One does not use in everyday face-to-face conversations constant use
of terms like "moron", "idiot", or worse. They can be considered "fighting
words" in direct conversation. In France they constitute "injure" and
one can be brought into court on it. The major defense here against people
who get excessive is individual exclusion. One can also
suggest to the group unseemly behavior and they can decide for themselves.
1gxt0ji.17n309fnt7kitN%this_address_is_for_spam@ya hoo.com, "chancellor of
the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> []
>> Ok, but what about collective pressures like: 'Haven't you killfiled
>> him yet'?
>
> Bwahahahahaha!
It is certainly not pressure, but a suggestion.
The practice of "exclusion" from a group as a punishment for individual
transgressions is as old as man. News groups have no obvious rules and
certainly not laws except the accusation of abuse to the service provider.
Next, the news groups are relatively new means of communication so the
informal rules of behavior have not been fully worked out.
One does not use in everyday face-to-face conversations constant use
of terms like "moron", "idiot", or worse. They can be considered "fighting
words" in direct conversation. In France they constitute "injure" and
one can be brought into court on it. The major defense here against people
who get excessive is individual exclusion. One can also
suggest to the group unseemly behavior and they can decide for themselves.
Jun 7th 2005, 6:48 pm
#198
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Go Fig wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>, emilia
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Go Fig wrote:
>>>In article <[email protected]>, emilia
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>But the "right wing' types don't call for the organized silencing of
>>>>>>>CNN, NPR,BBC or people in this NG... something that is tops on their
>>>>>>>agenda.... "Haven't you kill filed him yet" ?
>>>>>>Well, I can't say I agree with you there - I don't see where the left
>>>>>>is trying to silence the media.
>>>>>During the GOP Convention in NYC, more than 1000 people marched down in
>>>>>front of Fox News and proclaimed the protest to be a "shut-up-a-thon"
>>>>Ummm.... I think that is because everytime anyone who doesn't agree with
>>>>what's-his-face (that Fox host) gets yelled at to shut up.
>>>How many of the protesters did you see interviewed ?
>>That's not the point.
>
>
> It is exactly the point! It goes to their intentions... which was my
> point.
Good. Now we have that clear.
>>I'm only saying that's why they wrote the sign
>>with the word "shut up".
>>I don't think it fosters free speech to tell your guests to shut up if
>>they disagree.
>
>
> When they spin and do not answer a direct question... that is what they
> should get... TV segments have limited time... about 6 min.
Ok. Then he should move on to the next question.
Free speech does also include NOT speaking.
Anyway, this is not only the left that does this. This has happened
since the begining of time.
PLUS not all answers are yes & no. Sometimes they need more explaination
especially if they are set up in a way to make the guest look bad, which
what's-his-face does all the time.
>>It certainly doesn't give the interviewer credibility.
>
> How does it question his credibility to insist on answers?
You can't make people answer your questions.
But going down to the level of scream & insutling your guest does make
the host look like an uneducated imbecile. But again, not everyone
agrees with me.
>>Clearly others disagree with me on this point. Personally, I find it
>>unwatchable.
>
> Do you even have access to it currently ?
I do when I travel. But no matter how long I've been away, he's still an
idiot.
>>I also think that posters who continually call the others
>>idiot, moron, etc. to try to prove their point not credible.
>
>
> Ok, but what about collective pressures like: 'Haven't you killfiled
> him yet'?
You are also free not to do what they say.
> In article <[email protected]>, emilia
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>Go Fig wrote:
>>>In article <[email protected]>, emilia
>>><[email protected]> wrote:
>>>>>>>But the "right wing' types don't call for the organized silencing of
>>>>>>>CNN, NPR,BBC or people in this NG... something that is tops on their
>>>>>>>agenda.... "Haven't you kill filed him yet" ?
>>>>>>Well, I can't say I agree with you there - I don't see where the left
>>>>>>is trying to silence the media.
>>>>>During the GOP Convention in NYC, more than 1000 people marched down in
>>>>>front of Fox News and proclaimed the protest to be a "shut-up-a-thon"
>>>>Ummm.... I think that is because everytime anyone who doesn't agree with
>>>>what's-his-face (that Fox host) gets yelled at to shut up.
>>>How many of the protesters did you see interviewed ?
>>That's not the point.
>
>
> It is exactly the point! It goes to their intentions... which was my
> point.
Good. Now we have that clear.
>>I'm only saying that's why they wrote the sign
>>with the word "shut up".
>>I don't think it fosters free speech to tell your guests to shut up if
>>they disagree.
>
>
> When they spin and do not answer a direct question... that is what they
> should get... TV segments have limited time... about 6 min.
Ok. Then he should move on to the next question.
Free speech does also include NOT speaking.
Anyway, this is not only the left that does this. This has happened
since the begining of time.
PLUS not all answers are yes & no. Sometimes they need more explaination
especially if they are set up in a way to make the guest look bad, which
what's-his-face does all the time.
>>It certainly doesn't give the interviewer credibility.
>
> How does it question his credibility to insist on answers?
You can't make people answer your questions.
But going down to the level of scream & insutling your guest does make
the host look like an uneducated imbecile. But again, not everyone
agrees with me.
>>Clearly others disagree with me on this point. Personally, I find it
>>unwatchable.
>
> Do you even have access to it currently ?
I do when I travel. But no matter how long I've been away, he's still an
idiot.
>>I also think that posters who continually call the others
>>idiot, moron, etc. to try to prove their point not credible.
>
>
> Ok, but what about collective pressures like: 'Haven't you killfiled
> him yet'?
You are also free not to do what they say.
Jun 7th 2005, 7:05 pm
#199
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
On 8/06/05 0:06, in article 070620051506447386%[email protected], "Go Fig"
<[email protected]> wrote:
> She is not a reporter.
A columnist is a reporter, higher up on the prestige scale.
>> wrote of having troubles getting the White House to give her
>> a press pass. Ari Fleischer used to deny people passes, so I don't know
>> why you say it was the press that awards them.
>
> I don't have the inclination to explain the mechanism that you should
> be familiar with, given your above statement. It has previously been
> discussed here.
I have not seen it discussed and it was raised again. The question is how
one gets a White House press pass. The above statement says it is cleared
by White House. True or not true?
Next, we have already seen the scandal a few months ago of a non-reporter
with a false name (Jeff Gannon, real name, Guckert) who asked the President
filtered questions got a pass.
One would think for security reasons, all those who appear at the news
conferences would have been cleared by security, their real
and professional identities verified.
"Guckert made more than 200 appearances at the White
House during his two-year tenure with the fledging conservative
websites GOPUSA and Talon News, attending 155 of 196
White House press briefings. He had little to no previous
journalism experience, previously worked as a male escort,
and was refused a congressional press pass."
So there you have it, the White House controlling news sources.
Obviously, Guckert had contacts in the White House who arranged
this. This was not a simple mistake.
Earl
<[email protected]> wrote:
> She is not a reporter.
A columnist is a reporter, higher up on the prestige scale.
>> wrote of having troubles getting the White House to give her
>> a press pass. Ari Fleischer used to deny people passes, so I don't know
>> why you say it was the press that awards them.
>
> I don't have the inclination to explain the mechanism that you should
> be familiar with, given your above statement. It has previously been
> discussed here.
I have not seen it discussed and it was raised again. The question is how
one gets a White House press pass. The above statement says it is cleared
by White House. True or not true?
Next, we have already seen the scandal a few months ago of a non-reporter
with a false name (Jeff Gannon, real name, Guckert) who asked the President
filtered questions got a pass.
One would think for security reasons, all those who appear at the news
conferences would have been cleared by security, their real
and professional identities verified.
"Guckert made more than 200 appearances at the White
House during his two-year tenure with the fledging conservative
websites GOPUSA and Talon News, attending 155 of 196
White House press briefings. He had little to no previous
journalism experience, previously worked as a male escort,
and was refused a congressional press pass."
So there you have it, the White House controlling news sources.
Obviously, Guckert had contacts in the White House who arranged
this. This was not a simple mistake.
Earl
Jun 7th 2005, 7:07 pm
#200
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
On 8/06/05 0:18, in article [email protected],
"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> Jay's not going anywhere near my killfile. He's more fun than Mixi!
Jay is not insulting. He is not a JBK or Runge, who are authentic toxics.
"Deep Foiled Malls" <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
> Jay's not going anywhere near my killfile. He's more fun than Mixi!
Jay is not insulting. He is not a JBK or Runge, who are authentic toxics.
Jun 7th 2005, 7:10 pm
#201
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 21:13:13 -0700, Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> Go Fig writes:
>>
>> > "Permanent Seats" (the front rows) are awarded by a consortium panel of
>> > the media itself... the only input the White House has over them is the
>> > passing of a security clearance.
>>
>> Since a security clearance is mandatory, that amounts to the White House
>> issuing the passes.
>Only if they have invoked that by denying a pass, have they ?
Has the White House ever denied giving someone a pass? Is THAT your
question?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
>In article <[email protected]>, Mxsmanic
><[email protected]> wrote:
>> Go Fig writes:
>>
>> > "Permanent Seats" (the front rows) are awarded by a consortium panel of
>> > the media itself... the only input the White House has over them is the
>> > passing of a security clearance.
>>
>> Since a security clearance is mandatory, that amounts to the White House
>> issuing the passes.
>Only if they have invoked that by denying a pass, have they ?
Has the White House ever denied giving someone a pass? Is THAT your
question?
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--
Jun 7th 2005, 7:20 pm
#202
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
On 8/06/05 3:00, in article [email protected], "Bill Moore"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> He gets like that when shafted.
>
> Apparently.
Does that mean that he is intellectually goosy?
<[email protected]> wrote:
>> He gets like that when shafted.
>
> Apparently.
Does that mean that he is intellectually goosy?
Jun 7th 2005, 7:42 pm
#203
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 22:18:35 GMT, Deep Foiled Malls
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:50:30 +0100, [email protected]
>(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco)
>wrote:
>>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>>[]
>>> Ok, but what about collective pressures like: 'Haven't you killfiled
>>> him yet'?
>>Bwahahahahaha!
>Jay's not going anywhere near my killfile. He's more fun than Mixi!
Viespeuk!
--
Martin
<deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
>On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 20:50:30 +0100, [email protected]
>(chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco)
>wrote:
>>Go Fig <[email protected]> wrote:
>>[]
>>> Ok, but what about collective pressures like: 'Haven't you killfiled
>>> him yet'?
>>Bwahahahahaha!
>Jay's not going anywhere near my killfile. He's more fun than Mixi!
Viespeuk!
--
Martin
Jun 7th 2005, 7:43 pm
#204
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
In article <BECC68D2.69F16%[email protected]>,
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/06/05 3:00, in article [email protected], "Bill Moore"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>> He gets like that when shafted.
>>
>> Apparently.
>Does that mean that he is intellectually goosy?
I dunno exactly what that means but while I often disagree with him
Go Fig is almost always polite and seems sincere to me.
Earl Evleth <[email protected]> wrote:
>On 8/06/05 3:00, in article [email protected], "Bill Moore"
><[email protected]> wrote:
>>> He gets like that when shafted.
>>
>> Apparently.
>Does that mean that he is intellectually goosy?
I dunno exactly what that means but while I often disagree with him
Go Fig is almost always polite and seems sincere to me.
Jun 7th 2005, 8:53 pm
#205
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Following up to Earl Evleth
>The right-left terminology became useless with the arrival of National
>Socialism. National Socialism is a pathological product of socialism itself
>and was anti-Capitalist. So were the Nazis left or right? Neither, they
>were totalitarian like the Communists. On the other hand certain
>regimes of the 1930s-40s were authoritarian conservative (the right), like
>Petain's and Franco's governments which did also play footsy with French
>and Spanish fascists. Curiously, for Americans, the European authoritarian
>conservatives also were anti-Capitalist since they had an anti-money
>prejudice which grown out of their Catholic roots.
I thought the Nazis were fascists, like the Spanish and Italian
govts of the time. Fascists are usually regarded as right, not
left. What was the socialist content of national socialism, I
assumed it was just a name? After all, many communists and
socialists fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil war and the
Russian communists supported the anti Franco forces while Germany
supported Franco.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>The right-left terminology became useless with the arrival of National
>Socialism. National Socialism is a pathological product of socialism itself
>and was anti-Capitalist. So were the Nazis left or right? Neither, they
>were totalitarian like the Communists. On the other hand certain
>regimes of the 1930s-40s were authoritarian conservative (the right), like
>Petain's and Franco's governments which did also play footsy with French
>and Spanish fascists. Curiously, for Americans, the European authoritarian
>conservatives also were anti-Capitalist since they had an anti-money
>prejudice which grown out of their Catholic roots.
I thought the Nazis were fascists, like the Spanish and Italian
govts of the time. Fascists are usually regarded as right, not
left. What was the socialist content of national socialism, I
assumed it was just a name? After all, many communists and
socialists fought against Franco in the Spanish Civil war and the
Russian communists supported the anti Franco forces while Germany
supported Franco.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 7th 2005, 8:53 pm
#206
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Following up to Earl Evleth
>It is a fascinating period and much different than now. The world went
>crazy.
It could go crazy again if capitalism had another hiccup as bad
as the depression?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>It is a fascinating period and much different than now. The world went
>crazy.
It could go crazy again if capitalism had another hiccup as bad
as the depression?
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 7th 2005, 8:53 pm
#207
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Following up to Earl Evleth
>A bit more. We have had over 50 years of nuclear weapons without one being
>used, "we" were too afraid to. That means that we did think that one out
>rationally.
Have we? They are slipping out to smaller, less responsible
countries now. It seems to me only a matter of time before a
terrorist lets off a device with some radioactive content.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>A bit more. We have had over 50 years of nuclear weapons without one being
>used, "we" were too afraid to. That means that we did think that one out
>rationally.
Have we? They are slipping out to smaller, less responsible
countries now. It seems to me only a matter of time before a
terrorist lets off a device with some radioactive content.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 7th 2005, 8:53 pm
#208
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Following up to Bill Moore
>You mean "certainty", right?
Yes, I should have typed "certainty not knowledge", but you
guessed my meaning!
>What's truly certain is that the right-wing
>loonie types who "know for sure" like JBK will call everyone who disagrees
>with them left-wingers, while left-wing loonie types (we have them on this
>NG too) who "know for sure" will call everyone who disagrees with them
>fascists.
indeed.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>You mean "certainty", right?
Yes, I should have typed "certainty not knowledge", but you
guessed my meaning!
>What's truly certain is that the right-wing
>loonie types who "know for sure" like JBK will call everyone who disagrees
>with them left-wingers, while left-wing loonie types (we have them on this
>NG too) who "know for sure" will call everyone who disagrees with them
>fascists.
indeed.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 7th 2005, 8:53 pm
#209
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Following up to chancellor of the duchy of besses o' th' barn and
prestwich tesco
>> But the "right wing' types don't call for the organized silencing of
>> CNN, NPR,BBC or people in this NG... something that is tops on their
>> agenda....
>Blethering rubbish again, Figgy!
what on earth was that about? I'm well out of it. As for
killfiling, I cant speak for others, but I killfile for rudeness,
not political views. The fact that right wingers and rudeness
often match is their problem :-)
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
prestwich tesco
>> But the "right wing' types don't call for the organized silencing of
>> CNN, NPR,BBC or people in this NG... something that is tops on their
>> agenda....
>Blethering rubbish again, Figgy!
what on earth was that about? I'm well out of it. As for
killfiling, I cant speak for others, but I killfile for rudeness,
not political views. The fact that right wingers and rudeness
often match is their problem :-)
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Jun 7th 2005, 8:53 pm
#210
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: French 'Non' to Constitution Would Plunge EU into Crisis
Following up to [email protected]
>No way I buy that the left is any more guilty of censorship type
>behavior than the right. And neither has been successful in really
>shutting down the press.
as most of the press is owned by the right I would have thought
it would be left views more likely to be missing.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
>No way I buy that the left is any more guilty of censorship type
>behavior than the right. And neither has been successful in really
>shutting down the press.
as most of the press is owned by the right I would have thought
it would be left views more likely to be missing.
--
Mike Reid
Wasdale-Thames path-London-Photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Eat-walk-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
