In article ,
"EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque)" writes
    >Of course, if you've read further on in the group, where the identical
    >post (with the obvious substitutions) is made vis a vis Americans
    >planning a trip to France (and by the same poster), I think we can
    >safely assume we've been feeding the trolls, here!
Ever heard of irony? No, probably not.
--
Marie Lewis

devil wrote in response to me:


    > > I'd feel about as "welcome" in France right now as a Jewish tourist
would in
    > > Germany c.1937. Who needs the mishegoss? There are plenty of other
places
    > > to go where a US tourist (of *whatever* political leaning) won't be
    > > constantly subjected to that incessant and tired old ant - US drumbeat.
    > Given your need to defend the administration policy, not too much of a
    > surprise, is it?


Naw...I'd just be afraid that some froggie peaceniks will grab me and paint
a peace sign on my face....


    > As to maintaining the confusion between being anti-US and anti-Bush
    > policy, doesn't help either. Agenda does show.


It's a two - way street, no?


    > But even so, comparing with a Jew in Germany 1937 is still a gross
    > exaggeration. Additionally, that had a personal dimension that this
    > surely does not.

I know that, but I figured it would get a rise of *somebody* :-)

--
Best
Greg

EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:

    > I think we can
    > safely assume we've been feeding the trolls, here!

"here"......................................or
"here"............................................ .........or
"here".......?????

--
Best
Greg ;-p

Miguel Cruz wrote:

    > EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
    > > Rudy wrote:
    > >> My family plans a trip to Paris and Provence in late April. We are
    > >> worried about the French people we see on television. They are
    > >> putting swastikas on American flags and painting Hitler-mustaches on
    > >> pictures of Bush. The French (especially Parisians) are famous for
    > >> rudeness but I wonder if it is too much right now. I would like to
    > >> hear from any Americans who have traveled there in the past month.
    > >> How are they treating us?
    > >
    > > Didn't I read exactly the same post (word for word) regarding American
    > > friendliness to French tourists? Methinks "Rudy" is a troll!
    > I agree with your assessment of Rudy as a troll, but the post you saw was
a
    > parody of this one (this one came first).

My head is spinning....now I'm confused....*which* troll came
first.......????

--
Best
Greg

in article [email protected], Marie Lewis at
[email protected] wrote on 25/02/03 9:33:

    > In article , dajaxon
    > writes
    >> there are much better places to visit than France -
    > No, there are not!


France is the world's most visited by foreigners country.

They are generally well set up for this.

As for anti-Americanism people tend to confuse the issues of being against
the war with anti-Americanism.

This weekend a poll was published.

The Journal du Dimanche published today the following poll

*********

"With regard to the Iraqi war which of the following
would best describe your feeling"

1) You like Americans but are favorable to entering
into Iraq ------------------------------------------------ 6%

2) You like Americans but are not favorable to entering
into Iraq --------------------------------------------- 70%

3) You don`t like Americans and are not favorable to
entering Iraq ---------------------------------------------- 15%

4) You don`t like Americans but are favorable to entering
Iraq ---------------------------------------------------------2%

5) No opinion ---------------------------------------------------7%


***

Other more sophisticated polls have been published in the past but
this is good enough. The nation has a 75%-25% split and is
in its great majority favorable towards Americans.

The French do not, however, and never have, go out of their way
to smile unless it is more or less sincere and they know the person.

The Germans even have a saying "everybody's friend is everybody's
idiot".

So displays of "friendliness" differ from society to society.
Antagonistic behavior tends to be more "sincere". Often
"friendly" behavior is not. It is merely good business.

Earl

"Earl Evleth" wrote in message
news:BA8260A1.110F4%[email protected]...

    > The Germans even have a saying "everybody's friend is everybody's
    > idiot".
    > So displays of "friendliness" differ from society to society.
    > Antagonistic behavior tends to be more "sincere". Often
    > "friendly" behavior is not. It is merely good business.

"Have a nice day" from every sales clerk must bother you when you are in the
USA. I more or less repeat it back to clerks and they usually act
surprised. They were on "full automatic" when they said it.

In article ,
"R J Carpenter" wrote:

    > "Earl Evleth" wrote in message
    > news:BA8260A1.110F4%[email protected]...
    >
    > > The Germans even have a saying "everybody's friend is everybody's
    > > idiot".
    > >
    > > So displays of "friendliness" differ from society to society.
    > > Antagonistic behavior tends to be more "sincere". Often
    > > "friendly" behavior is not. It is merely good business.
    >
    > "Have a nice day" from every sales clerk must bother you when you are in the
    > USA. I more or less repeat it back to clerks and they usually act
    > surprised. They were on "full automatic" when they said it.
    >
    >

yada yada yada -- the idea that 'sincere' surliness is preferable to
insincere friendliness or politeness seems odd -- the purpose of polite
phrases is to lubricate commercial interactions and make them smoother
and more pleasant -- what virtue in understanding the 'true' feelings of
the person serving you?

having put up with the abysmal customer service, particularly of
England, I can't imagine why being treated like dirt is less annoying
than those slightly annoying chipper servers in American chain
restaurants

and have a nice day is not any less sincere than buon giorno, bon jour,
g'day or any of the routinized politenessess used in any other culture.

On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 12:16:33 +0100, Earl Evleth wrote:

    > in article [email protected], Marie Lewis at
    > [email protected] wrote on 25/02/03 9:33:
    >
    >> In article , dajaxon
    >> writes
    >>> there are much better places to visit than France -
    >> No, there are not!
    >
    >
    > France is the world's most visited by foreigners country.
    >
    > They are generally well set up for this.
    >
    > As for anti-Americanism people tend to confuse the issues of being against
    > the war with anti-Americanism.

Haven't they told you that making that distinction is unAmerican nowadays?
Good morning Mr. McCarthy.

The English for example, are rude and insulting to people they know
and like, and impeccably polite to those they don't. This can be
confusing for others used to it the other way round...
Dave
    >
    > The French do not, however, and never have, go out of their way
    > to smile unless it is more or less sincere and they know the person.
    >
    > The Germans even have a saying "everybody's friend is everybody's
    > idiot".
    >
    > So displays of "friendliness" differ from society to society.
    > Antagonistic behavior tends to be more "sincere". Often
    > "friendly" behavior is not. It is merely good business.
    >
    > Earl

"The French are always nice to me."

Rudy wrote:
    > My family plans a trip to Paris and Provence in late April. We are
    > worried about the French people we see on television. They are
    > putting swastikas on American flags and painting Hitler-mustaches on
    > pictures of Bush. The French (especially Parisians) are famous for
    > rudeness but I wonder if it is too much right now. I would like to
    > hear from any Americans who have traveled there in the past month.
    > How are they treating us?


--
"But to live outside the law, you must be honest"
Bob Dylan - Absolutely Sweet Marie - 1966

In article ,
[email protected] (David) wrote:

    > The English for example, are rude and insulting to people they know
    > and like, and impeccably polite to those they don't. This can be
    > confusing for others used to it the other way round...
    > Dave

not so in customer service where many [certainly not all] shopkeepers
and other customer service types are downright rude and surly to
customers


    > >
    > > The French do not, however, and never have, go out of their way
    > > to smile unless it is more or less sincere and they know the person.
    > >
    > > The Germans even have a saying "everybody's friend is everybody's
    > > idiot".
    > >
    > > So displays of "friendliness" differ from society to society.
    > > Antagonistic behavior tends to be more "sincere". Often
    > > "friendly" behavior is not. It is merely good business.
    > >
    > > Earl

Gregory Morrow wrote:
    > Miguel Cruz wrote:
    >> EvelynVogtGamble(Divamanque) wrote:
    >>> Rudy wrote:
    >>>> My family plans a trip to Paris and Provence in late April. We are
    >>>> worried about the French people we see on television. They are
    >>>> putting swastikas on American flags and painting Hitler-mustaches on
    >>>> pictures of Bush. The French (especially Parisians) are famous for
    >>>> rudeness but I wonder if it is too much right now. I would like to
    >>>> hear from any Americans who have traveled there in the past month.
    >>>> How are they treating us?
    >>> Didn't I read exactly the same post (word for word) regarding American
    >>> friendliness to French tourists? Methinks "Rudy" is a troll!
    >> I agree with your assessment of Rudy as a troll, but the post you saw was
    >> a parody of this one (this one came first).
    > My head is spinning....now I'm confused....*which* troll came
    > first.......????

The fake American planning a fake trip to Europe came first, far as I can
tell.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos and tales from around the world: http://travel.u.nu

Hey, I've been putting hitler moustaches on pictures of Bush
right here in the good 'ol USA. Why leave home?
I suggest you take homeland security advice and cover yourself
with plastic sheeting and duct tape to protect against rude
Parisians.



"Rudy" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > My family plans a trip to Paris and Provence in late April. We are
    > worried about the French people we see on television. They are
    > putting swastikas on American flags and painting Hitler-mustaches on
    > pictures of Bush. The French (especially Parisians) are famous for
    > rudeness but I wonder if it is too much right now. I would like to
    > hear from any Americans who have traveled there in the past month.
    > How are they treating us?

Rudy wrote:

    > My family plans a trip to Paris and Provence in late April. We are
    > worried about the French people we see on television. They are
    > putting swastikas on American flags and painting Hitler-mustaches on
    > pictures of Bush. The French (especially Parisians) are famous for
    > rudeness but I wonder if it is too much right now. I would like to
    > hear from any Americans who have traveled there in the past month.
    > How are they treating us?

I recently returned from a month in Paris, and found almost everyone
friendly and polite, even though I don't speak or understand French. It
was a really enjoyable visit.

It is important to be polite yourself; Parisians (and French people in
general) are more formal that we in the US are used to. In the offices I
visited everyone says hello (well, actually "bonjour") when they come
into an office, and also shake hands all around.

Larry


--
Larry Finch

N 40° 53' 47"
W 74° 03' 56"

le Thu, 27 Feb 2003 02:46:35 GMT, dans l'article , Larry & Wanda Finch a dit ...

    >> My family plans a trip to Paris and Provence in late April. We are
    >> worried about the French people we see on television. They are
    >> putting swastikas on American flags and painting Hitler-mustaches on
    >> pictures of Bush. The French (especially Parisians) are famous for
    >> rudeness but I wonder if it is too much right now. I would like to
    >> hear from any Americans who have traveled there in the past month.
    >> How are they treating us?

    > I recently returned from a month in Paris, and found almost everyone
    > friendly and polite, even though I don't speak or understand French. It
    > was a really enjoyable visit.
    >
    > It is important to be polite yourself; Parisians (and French people in
    > general) are more formal that we in the US are used to. In the offices I
    > visited everyone says hello (well, actually "bonjour") when they come
    > into an office, and also shake hands all around.

True. Also, the American habit of using people's first name five minutes
after you first meet, will get you short shrift here.

This isn't a value judgement; I find Americans to be among the friendliest
and most open people I've ever met, but here in France, stick to 'Madame',
and 'Monsieur', and use 'vous' until the person suggests that you move to
'toi'.

--
Desmond Coughlan
desmond @ zeouane.org
http: // www . zeouane . org