I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
(i.e.- Rome to Milan $70). The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?

-Thomas

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
    >I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    > not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    > I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    > and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    > (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70). The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    > and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    > catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
    > expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    > is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?

Milan to Rome is about 400 miles, and the train fare is very inexpensive.
Ryanair can cheap if you book a long way in advance and are also prepared to
fly to and from secondary airports and don't have a lot of luggage.

JohnT

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
    >I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    > not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    > I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    > and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    > (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70). The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    > and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    > catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
    > expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    > is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?
    > -Thomas

What are you looking at for your rail fares? The ones charged by overseas
agencies are far more expensive than you'd pay by walking up and booking at
your departure station. You also have to consider that fares on airlines
such as Ryanair are very restrictive - you lose your fare if you don't show
up on time, you can't change flights without significant penalties, baggage
is limited to 15 kgs and you pay large excesses for anything over. Plus you
have to get to and from airports at significant expense at both from
downtown, go thru security checks, not as convenient as leaving from a
downtown bus or train station.
So you might find your Ryanair flight may cost $30 plus $20 additional
baggage plus $40 transfer costs for two airports from downtown = $90. And
you can add on at least 3 hours on your flight time for checkin, security
checks, transfer times and baggage collection, whereas rail or bus is not
much more than elapsed journey time. And you can sit back and enjoy the
scenery.

David Bennetts
Australia

"JohnT" <[email protected]> wrote:

    ><[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >>I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    >> not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    >> I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    >> and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    >> (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70). The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    >> and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    >> catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
    >> expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    >> is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?
    >Milan to Rome is about 400 miles, and the train fare is very inexpensive.
    >Ryanair can cheap if you book a long way in advance and are also prepared to
    >fly to and from secondary airports and don't have a lot of luggage.
You have also to budget for the cost of transport to and from the
airports. In some cases this can make a considerable difference. Rail
stations are almost always near the centre of towns or cities.

In general there is more hassle with air travel than with rail. You
decide for yourself the trade-off between money and bother.

In my limited experience, buses are generally the cheapest option for
inter-city travel.

--
PB
The return address has been MUNGED

On 22 Feb 2006 12:14:27 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    >not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    >I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    >and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    >(i.e.- Rome to Milan $70).

Tommorow at midday there's a train for 46 euro. That didn't take much
to find, and there are cheaper ones too. Try thinking in Euro, as the
exchange rates don't favour the US at the moment.

    > The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    >and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    >catch or something I am missing?

Of course there is a catch. Getting to and from the airports will cost
you the difference.

    > Also, does anyone have any advice or
    >expereince using bus travel?

Yeah, it sucks, and will save you a paltry amount of money.

    >I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    >is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?

Train.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

[email protected] wrote:

    > I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    > not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    > I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    > and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    > (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70). The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    > and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    > catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
    > expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    > is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?

One of the advantages of rail is proximity. Trains tend to run into the
centre of the city making it a lot easier to get to and from. Instead of
using major airports, some of the cheaper airlines use smaller airports
even further out than the larger ones. That means more time and money to
get back and forth for your flights.

David Bennetts wrote:
    >You also have to consider that fares on airlines
    > such as Ryanair are very restrictive - you lose your fare if you don't show
    > up on time, you can't change flights without significant penalties, baggage
    > is limited to 15 kgs

Others are 20 kg

    >and you pay large excesses for anything over. Plus you
    > have to get to and from airports at significant expense at both from
    > downtown

Unlike Ryanair, other cheap airlines actually fly to a convenient city
airport and not one several cities away

    >go thru security checks, not as convenient as leaving from a
    > downtown bus or train station.

On my last flights on a discount airlines, Germanwings, I had to be at
the airport a half an hour before the flight and there was no delays
caused by security.

    > So you might find your Ryanair flight may cost $30 plus $20 additional
    > baggage plus $40 transfer costs for two airports from downtown = $90. And
    > you can add on at least 3 hours on your flight time for checkin, security
    > checks, transfer times and baggage collection, whereas rail or bus is not
    > much more than elapsed journey time. And you can sit back and enjoy the
    > scenery.

Again, your talking about Ryanair, not all other discount airlines, and
sometimes the Ryanair alternate airport is really where you want to go.
Having only carryon baggage, an extra half hour is nothing, and with
checked luggage it would only be less than an hour at the most. And
with a window seat on an airplane you can sit back and watch the
scenery, which is probably much better. The view of a tunnel or a
ditch in which a high speed train is running isn't in the least bit
scenic.

George
    > Australia

If you plan well, air travel is the best, despite what others are telling
you.
Look not only at Ryanair; but also Easyjet, Germanwings, Air Berlin etc etc
There a many low cost flights and they are all OK.
Going to the airports is not such a hassle , depending where and you get all
details on the air companies sites.
You will gain time and it will be much better than sitting for hours in a
bus or even a train.
The price won't be higher and there's no catch, if you're a US citizen you
do get low prices on Spirit, don't you?
The only catch would be, choose well your days and times of travel in the
week and you'll gain a lot.
I often travel lowcost and it's a pleasure not waiting more than 10 minutes
at checkin, often no wait at all.
If you have heavy luggage, look at the smallprint for excess bagage rates,
not so high either.
Just to get an idea, I travelled lowcost to Helsinki, Rome, Madrid,
Barcelona, Cologne, Vienna, Budapest, Prague, Glasgow, Dublin, Shannon etc
etc and never paid more than 60 euros a flight taxes included, often much
less.
Flights last between 40 minutes and 2 hours, so sittiing in a somewhat (and
not always) cramped area isn't so bad.
Paying for a sandwich either, you gotta support these companies, otherwise
it's back to 5-10 years ago.
Anyway when you fligh to the US on a US company, you pay $5 for a Heineken
!!!
If you want to check bus travel, look at Eurolines but you really must enjoy
sleeping a whole night in a shaky bus.
Train is rather expensive, the only gain is arriving in the city centre (not
always, but often).


<[email protected]> a écrit dans le message de news:
[email protected] om...
    >I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    > not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    > I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    > and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    > (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70). The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    > and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    > catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
    > expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    > is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?
    > -Thomas
    >

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
    >I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    > not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    > I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    > and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    > (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70).

I just checked prices for Milan-Rome on www.trenitalia.com. Second class
fare is EUR 46.48 on ES (Eurostar Italia) or EUR 40.17 on IC trains. I don't
think that's anywhere near USD 70.

Alan Harrison

"ALAN HARRISON" <[email protected]> writes:

    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] ups.com...
    > > I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and
    > > had not planned on travel between cities and countries being so
    > > expensive. I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and
    > > train tickets and even short travel between two cities seems
    > > rediciously expensive (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70).
    >
    > I just checked prices for Milan-Rome on www.trenitalia.com. Second class
    > fare is EUR 46.48 on ES (Eurostar Italia) or EUR 40.17 on IC trains. I don't
    > think that's anywhere near USD 70.

EUR 47 = USD 56 at the time of posting.

But where are the Skip Milan team? (The original poster should note
that the overwhelming consensus is that Milan is the most skippable
city in Italy.)

Des

On 22 Feb 2006 12:14:27 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

    >I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    >not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    >I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    >and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    >(i.e.- Rome to Milan $70).

In second class Eurostar, the price is 46.48 euros, including the
mandatory cost of a reserved seat. First class is 67 euros, but there
is no reason to travel first class if price concerns you. On the
slightly slower intercity train, it's a bit cheaper for an unreserved
seat, but I would prefer the Eurostar. Perhaps you got your price from
one of those rail pass sites that sells point-to-point tickets at
inflated prices to convince you to buy their rail passes.

    > The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    >and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    >catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
    >expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    >is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?

The problem with Ryanair is that in order to lock in those low fares,
you have to reserve well in advance. Take a look at what it would cost
to fly tomorrow with Ryanair and you'll see what I mean.

I wouldn't want to decide my day-to-day schedule that far in advance
if I were trying to plan a pleasant and leisurely trip around Europe.


--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

"george" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ups.com...
    > David Bennetts wrote:
    >>You also have to consider that fares on airlines
    >> such as Ryanair are very restrictive - you lose your fare if you don't
    >> show
    >> up on time, you can't change flights without significant penalties,
    >> baggage
    >> is limited to 15 kgs
    > Others are 20 kg

I know. That's one reason I'm NOT flying Ryanair.

    >>and you pay large excesses for anything over. Plus you
    >> have to get to and from airports at significant expense at both from
    >> downtown
    > Unlike Ryanair, other cheap airlines actually fly to a convenient city
    > airport and not one several cities away

I know That's another reason I'm NOT flying Ryanair.

    >>go thru security checks, not as convenient as leaving from a
    >> downtown bus or train station.
    > On my last flights on a discount airlines, Germanwings, I had to be at
    > the airport a half an hour before the flight and there was no delays
    > caused by security.

But there often are. And if you don't leave your hotel in plenty of time to
allow for traffic delays and security you can miss your flight and do your
dough.

    >> So you might find your Ryanair flight may cost $30 plus $20 additional
    >> baggage plus $40 transfer costs for two airports from downtown = $90.
    >> And
    >> you can add on at least 3 hours on your flight time for checkin, security
    >> checks, transfer times and baggage collection, whereas rail or bus is not
    >> much more than elapsed journey time. And you can sit back and enjoy the
    >> scenery.
    > Again, your talking about Ryanair, not all other discount airlines, and
    > sometimes the Ryanair alternate airport is really where you want to go.
    > Having only carryon baggage, an extra half hour is nothing, and with
    > checked luggage it would only be less than an hour at the most. And
    > with a window seat on an airplane you can sit back and watch the
    > scenery, which is probably much better. The view of a tunnel or a
    > ditch in which a high speed train is running isn't in the least bit
    > scenic.

I know - why don't you look at the original post where Ryanair was
specifically mentioned? That's the simple reason I kept referring to
Ryanair. My experience with scenery from aircraft over Europe is usually a
good view of cloud below.
You'll also find that trains and buses are usually far more reliable than
planes, the cheap airlines rely on maximum availability from their aircraft,
you get weather delays, air traffic control delays and mechanical problems
and you're waiting around at airports for hours.

David Bennetts

Australia

"Dave Smith" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >> I will be traveling Europe this summer for a couple of months and had
    >> not planned on travel between cities and countries being so expensive.
    >> I have been looking on the internet at rail passes and train tickets
    >> and even short travel between two cities seems rediciously expensive
    >> (i.e.- Rome to Milan $70). The flight on Ryanair was only $30 with tax
    >> and fees. Are these flights really as good as they seem or is there a
    >> catch or something I am missing? Also, does anyone have any advice or
    >> expereince using bus travel? I guess what I am trying to ask is what
    >> is the most effiecient, economically & timely, means of travel?
    > One of the advantages of rail is proximity.

It's also a damned sight easier to catch up with
some sleep on a train. It's far more comfortable
and the x hours are all spent sitting in the same

tim

It depends a lot on where you want to travel in Europe. Is it just
Italy or other countries as well? How many countries would you then
plan to visit? Just the capitals or other cities in the different
countries? As for Italy by train see
http://www.trenitalia.com/en/index.html

On 22 Feb 2006 22:30:06 +0000, Des Small <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >But where are the Skip Milan team? (The original poster should note
    >that the overwhelming consensus is that Milan is the most skippable
    >city in Italy.)

I've been skipping it for years and I'm beginning to think it's time I
saw it for myself.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup