On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 23:41:05 GMT, Not the Karl Orff
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "Gene Seibel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >> > An airplane isn't a restaurant. An airplane isn't a movie theater. An
    >> > airplane is a way to get from point A to point B in a reasonable amount
    >> > of time and at reasonable cost. Most people see it as such.
    >> > --
    >> Ever been on a 22 hour flight say London to Sydney. The airplane has to be
    >> able to do a bit more than go from A to B.
    >try about the same time SIN-LHR (or v-v, with 4-5 stops. QF, BA and
    >M...something used to do this in the old old days.

Having flown tourist QF SYD-LAX (13hrs) and LHR-SIN(12hrs),
and BA SIN-MEL(7hrs) the service, planes, movies, meals and
general atmosphere were great. I didn't realise how good the
Qantas flight was from SYD-LAX until I experienced 6 AA
flights in the US from 1 to 5 1/2 hrs, and the 8 hr Iberian
SJU-MAD.

However, the best service - on the most uncomfortable
plane-seat (broken spring, full 737)- was on Air Pacific
BNE-NAN and return. Only 3 1/2 to 4 hours, good meal, good
service, free wine in tourist.


Cheers, Alan, Australia

On 8 Jun 2005 16:13:18 -0700, "One Way Ticket"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >> Flew back from Corfu on a Viking MD83. This is as she told me,
    >> completley unpromted:
    >The rear seating in a MD-80 series aircraft has to be the loudest of
    >any aircraft on which I have ever flown. Ear plugs are the only way to
    >keep your sanity if you find yourself located in such a seat. Your
    >friend should have take a short walk to stretch her legs - one which
    >ended at the loo in the front of the aircraft.

You've obviously never flown on a Herc or a Caribou.


Cheers, Alan, Australia

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 13:34:28 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On 8 Jun 2005 16:13:18 -0700, "One Way Ticket"
    ><[email protected]> wrote:
    >>> Flew back from Corfu on a Viking MD83. This is as she told me,
    >>> completley unpromted:
    >>The rear seating in a MD-80 series aircraft has to be the loudest of
    >>any aircraft on which I have ever flown. Ear plugs are the only way to
    >>keep your sanity if you find yourself located in such a seat. Your
    >>friend should have take a short walk to stretch her legs - one which
    >>ended at the loo in the front of the aircraft.
    >You've obviously never flown on a Herc or a Caribou.

or on a Fokker 50.
--
Martin

"Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Martin D. Pay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Wed, 8 Jun 2005 10:57:38 +0100,
    > > [email protected] (chancellor of the duchy of
    > > besses o' th' barn and prestwich tesco) mangled uncounted
    > > electrons thus:
    > >
    > >>Mxsmanic <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >>
    > >>[]
    > >>> There is relatively little difference in service across airlines,
    > >>> anyway. They all fly the same planes in the same way on the same
    > >>> routes. No amount of service reduces flight time, and there's almost
    > >>> nothing that can be done to reduce discomfort. And food and drink
don't
    > >>> significantly compensate for this.
    > >>
    > >>The meals and drinks help pass a bit of time, usually, and IMO the
    > >>aircraft with seat-back video and lots of movies and TV shows on demand
    > >>help pass the time even more.
    > >
    > > Speaking personally, and therefore as a sample of one, I'd
    > > (almost!) pay not to have a TV screen in the back of the seat in
    > > front of me. They're too damned small to be any use, and too
    > > close to my eyes - all I get is a blinding headache and nausea
    > > after a hour of exposure to one.
    > >
    > > My cry is for legroom - any other 'frill' is entirely irrelevant
    > > to me. I made the mistake of flying on a Virgin 747 from LGW to
    > > MCO, following someone else's glowing recommendation. But never
    > > again - I spent a good chunk of the (overnight) return flight
    > > standing in the cross-aisle at the back, reading my book, rather
    > > than try to sit... :(
    > >
    > > Martin D. Pay
    > > As a leisure flyer, I don't have the luxury of affording top-end
    > > seats...
    > I would agree with you about Virgin's tight economy class seating. But
the
    > cost of upgrading to their premium economy (one less seat across per row,
    > and 38" pitch vs. 31" in regular steerage) is a good compromise.

Although flying AA with MLTC still on transatlantic is a better deal if
legroom is the main concern (but the AA food has been going downhill
recently)

"Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Pooh Bear" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Bob Fry wrote:
    > >
    > >> >>>>> "gglave" == gglave <[email protected]> writes:
    > >> gglave> again. People ALWAYS complain about lack of movies or
    > >> gglave> food or leg room, but have consistently shown that if push
    > >> gglave> comes to shove they will always reject that in favour of a
    > >> gglave> cheaper fare.
    > >>
    > >> I wonder though, if at purchase time it was quite clear what extra
    > >> service they could buy ($10 for an inflight meal, $30 for 2 inches
    > >> more legroom, and so forth), maybe people would pay more. I buy the
    > >> cheap flight because I am very doubtful of actually buying better
    > >> service. Mind you, I'm not saying that buying an airline ticket
    > >> cafeteria style is practical. Just that people probably would pay for
    > >> better service, if they truly got it and knew what they were buying.
    > >
    > > Fly BA. Good pricing generally on long haul and 'full service'.
    > They seem to be doing something right being the worlds most profitable
    > airline too. Even on the short haul trips Dublin - London, its nice to
get
    > a complimentary alcoholic drink or two on the flight. The have got their
    > costs under control without compromising too much on the service.

What they are doing right is hanging to to some very lucrative long-haul
routes protected by cross-government agreements.

John Kirksey <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I say bring your own drink, your own sandwich, and your own portable DVD
    > player, that way you can have and watch whatever you want! That's my new
    > philosophy, and it works quite well. Nothing is better than a Cafe Latte and
    > my movie-of-choice with my own noise-cancelling headphones on. (I had to buy
    > a second pair and a splitter cuz my wife kept trying to talk to me and
    > getting mad because I wasn't listening/couldn't hear ;) Netflix just sent
    > Ocean's Twelve, which should go nicely on the 4.5 hour jaunt to Aruba next
    > week....

On the one hand, you're definitely getting the proper experience then, since
that movie has been playing on the last 5 or 6 flights I've taken.

On the other hand, um, having seen it, I'd say you might want to bring a
backup choice.

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

Martin D. Pay wrote:
    >
    > My cry is for legroom - any other 'frill' is entirely irrelevant
    > to me.

One of my fellow travelers where I used to work has very long legs and gave me
this tip. Try to get the seat immediately behind first class, or one of the
seats beside an emergency exit. Any seat behind a bulkhead will have more
legroom than those behind another seat. They also are unpopular, since there's
no seat ahead under which to stow your carry-on luggage. That means you can
usually get that seat if you ask for it.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

"George Patterson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:76_pe.10585$nk4.9242@trndny01...
    > Martin D. Pay wrote:
    > >
    > > My cry is for legroom - any other 'frill' is entirely irrelevant
    > > to me.
    > One of my fellow travelers where I used to work has very long legs and
gave me
    > this tip. Try to get the seat immediately behind first class, or one of
the
    > seats beside an emergency exit. Any seat behind a bulkhead will have more
    > legroom than those behind another seat. They also are unpopular, since
there's
    > no seat ahead under which to stow your carry-on luggage. That means you
can
    > usually get that seat if you ask for it.

Those seats often have more knee more but less foot room.

Jeff Hacker wrote:
    >
    > Years ago, in the U.S., the major airlines offered two classes of economy
    > service - one with meals and one without. The additional airfare charged
    > for meals was $10 (about UKP 6) on a 5 1/2 hour flight between Hawaii and
    > the U.S. West Coast. Within a short time, most passengers were paying the
    > extra because they understood what they were buying.

And what tends to happen then with American businesses is that they quit
offering the less expensive airfare as a option because most of the passengers
want the meal. Later they get into a price war and drop the meal as a
cost-cutting measure or offer it only as part of a high-priced option package.
Same as auto manufacturers do.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

One Way Ticket wrote:
    >
    > The rear seating in a MD-80 series aircraft has to be the loudest of
    > any aircraft on which I have ever flown.

Airline employees refer to these as the "headache seats."

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

"Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >> One of the most ridiculously high fares is Continental's Newark to B'ham
    >> (BHX) ; it cannot be justified.

No surprise but then Continental is an airline that cannot be justified
either.

"Not the Karl Orff" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>,
    > "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> "Gene Seibel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >> > An airplane isn't a restaurant. An airplane isn't a movie theater. An
    >> > airplane is a way to get from point A to point B in a reasonable amount
    >> > of time and at reasonable cost. Most people see it as such.
    >> > --
    >> Ever been on a 22 hour flight say London to Sydney. The airplane has to
    >> be
    >> able to do a bit more than go from A to B.
    > try about the same time SIN-LHR (or v-v, with 4-5 stops. QF, BA and
    > M...something used to do this in the old old days.

Did it myself from 66 to 69 as a kid. Air travel was a relative pleasure
then without the great unwashed everywhere.

"Jeff Hacker" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Gregory Morrow"
    > <gregorymorrowEMERGENCYCANCELLATIONARCHIMEDES@eart hlink.net> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected] nk.net...
    >> Chris wrote:
    >>> "Gene Seibel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>> news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >>> > An airplane isn't a restaurant. An airplane isn't a movie theater. An
    >>> > airplane is a way to get from point A to point B in a reasonable
    >>> > amount
    >>> > of time and at reasonable cost. Most people see it as such.
    >>> > --
    >>> Ever been on a 22 hour flight say London to Sydney. The airplane has to
    >>> be
    >>> able to do a bit more than go from A to B.
    >> The still - standing record for the longest non - stop commercial flight
    >> is
    >> the late - 50's TWA Los Angeles - London route, flown with the
    >> propeller -
    >> driven Lockheed L-1049G "Starliner" Constellation.
    > .actually, the Starliner was the L-1649
    > .it was almost 25 hours
    >> in length. Second record holder is a late - 50's Scandinavian Airlines
    >> flight flown with the prop Douglas DC-7C "Seven Seas" on the Los
    >> Angeles -
    >> Copenhagen route (both of these flights had to make refueling stops on
    >> their
    >> westbound legs e.g. LHR - LAX, CPH - LAX)...
    >> Of course these were primarily all First Class layouts with sleeper
    >> berths,
    >> etc..about 40 or so passengers max.
    >> I can't imagine bouncing around in a prop plane for all that time, even
    >> with
    >> the finest in amenities...
    > I'm old enough to have flown many hours in propeller airplanes
    > (Stratocruisers, DC6B's, DC7B's, DC7C's, etc.) They may have been a bit
    > noisy, but not particularly uncomfortable otherwise. Even when they added
    > an economy class in the DC7C's (2-3 seating), passenger comfort and
    > legroom was at least as nice as today's. The flights just droned on and
    > on and on, and they didn't have inflight entertainment then.
    >> --
    >> Best
    >> Greg

My toughest trip was in a British Eagle Bristol Britannia from LHR to
Singapore in 1966. It was hired out to the Forces and as such the seats
faced backwards. Departed London 13.00 on the Sunday and arrived in
Singapore at 02.00 on the Tuesday. There were only two stops, the first in
Abidjan in Iran the second in Colombo, then Ceylon.

"S." <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected] oups.com...
    > >> You are, I presume, joking, right????????
    > >
    > > Not at all - Economics have shown again and again that people are not
    > > willing to pay for perks on flights.
    > >
    > But this has got nothing to do with anything ! ????
    > People are prepare to pay for an aircraft that shows up, their luggage
with
    > them when they arrive, and preferably a meal / drinks in flight. I
couldn't
    > give a rat's rear about all the other stuff that the big boys use to
justify
    > their ludicrously overblown prices, films, entertainment, insurance (hotel
    > stay if a flight's cancelled etc).
    > One of the most ridiculously high fares is Continental's Newark to B'ham
    > (BHX) ; it cannot be justified.

Continental is the cheapest fare EWR/BHX, according to both expedia.com and
travelocity.com.

Paul Nixon

George Patterson <[email protected]> writes:

    > Martin D. Pay wrote:
    > > My cry is for legroom - any other 'frill' is entirely irrelevant
    >
    > > to me.
    >
    > One of my fellow travelers where I used to work has very long legs and
    > gave me this tip. Try to get the seat immediately behind first class,
    > or one of the seats beside an emergency exit. Any seat behind a
    > bulkhead will have more legroom than those behind another seat. They
    > also are unpopular, since there's no seat ahead under which to stow
    > your carry-on luggage. That means you can usually get that seat if you
    > ask for it.

Or, better yet, check in online. USair lets you check in 24 hours
before the flight, and pick whatever seat you like... (Dunno about
other airlines.)

Chris
--
Chris Colohan Email: [email protected] PGP: finger [email protected]
Web: www.colohan.com Phone: (412)268-4751