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"ddttzz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]. ..
    > Posted on another forum by a Brit:
    > Viking Charter Flight Horror
    > A friend has come back off her holiday with the shakes! She flew out
    > for Corfu from East Midlands on Excel Airways, lovley service she
    > said, nice hot meal.
    > Flew back from Corfu on a Viking MD83. This is as she told me,
    > completley unpromted:
    > "I was starving, I hadnt had a meal at the airport because I thought
    > we would get one on the plane as we had coming out. It never occured
    > to me it would be a different airline. When we got bussed to the
    > aircraft I though 'oh god' whats that' (refering to the Viking MD83
    > greeting her)
    > I felt a bit nervous because I had never heard of them and it looked
    > different to all the others, this had engines at the back and was
    > really long and skinny. I started to get scared and even more so when
    > we got on through these stairs at the back in the tail. It was like a
    > secret passage, you walked up and you were inside the plane at the
    > tail. The door hole was like a little trap door. drawbridge thing. I
    > waas shitting myself.
    > We were sat two rows from the back and Darren (her boyfriend) seat was
    > like, really springy, and the woman at the back of him said 'that
    > fellas got a rocking chair' The noise as we took off was really loud.
    > I was very worried.
    > Al the stewardess's talked funny like her with blond hair out of ABBA!
    > Anyway, I was starving and looking forward to a meal like we had
    > coming but do you know what? There was no meal and the hostess said we
    > only have sandwiches or pringles for sale! I couldnt believe it! How
    > come we had no meal and only offered a sandwich which we had to pay
    > for? Anyway, I had a cheese sandwich because I was starving. We even
    > had to pay for a cup of tea! It was free on Excel!
    > I wanted to go to the toilet. I was desperate but the toilet was right
    > at the back of us, near that funny trapdoor and I was too scared to go
    > so I held it all the way back to Eat Midlands. It was the worst flight
    > ever. I reckon nothing to them and I am telling travel agent I dont
    > want to fly with Viking anymore!"
    > Now my friend who told me this, knows nothing about aviation but flies
    > a couple of times a year on holiday. Those who say that the average
    > passenger knows or cares nothing about the plane/airline/service and
    > just wants the cheapest havent met my friend and apparently a lot of
    > other paople on the plane were grumbling.

nobody <[email protected]> wrote:
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >> Here's a quote from a CNN article that references American Airlines
    > CNN is hardly a reliable source of unbiased information.

You think CNN has a hidden agenda in favor of decreased legroom?

miguel
--
Hit The Road! Photos from 36 countries on 5 continents: http://travel.u.nu
Latest photos: Queens Day in Amsterdam; the Grand Canyon; Amman, Jordan

"Delta Dawn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > It has to be said that flying in the USA can take you by surprise at
    > times. I flew from Chicago to Denver on United last year (almost
    > coinciding with the launch of TED, but still on mainstream United (UA249),
    > and could not even buy a drink or sandwich, let alone get a free one, on a
    > flight of almost 3 hours.

United offers complimentary soft beverages on substantially all of their
flights (the only exception is very short flights. But no U.S. carrier
except Continental, and Alaska, and United (on their transcons) have any
inflight meal services anymore - the customers have shown they'll fly
another airline to save $5 even if the service is inferior.
    > (In fact I had better service on a short flight on TED (LAS-LAX) a few
    > days later, so it was a case of the no frills version being better than
    > the "standard" offering).
    > "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> "Starshiy Nemo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]...
    >>> And you just thhink that us AIRLINES ARE BETTER????
    >> US mainstream airlines are about the standard of European bucket shop
    >> charter airlines; come to think of it they are not that good either all
    >> being bankrupt.
    >

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] oups.com...
    >> You are, I presume, joking, right????????
    > Not at all - Economics have shown again and again that people are not
    > willing to pay for perks on flights.

But this has got nothing to do with anything ! ????

People are prepare to pay for an aircraft that shows up, their luggage with
them when they arrive, and preferably a meal / drinks in flight. I couldn't
give a rat's rear about all the other stuff that the big boys use to justify
their ludicrously overblown prices, films, entertainment, insurance (hotel
stay if a flight's cancelled etc).

One of the most ridiculously high fares is Continental's Newark to B'ham
(BHX) ; it cannot be justified.

In article <[email protected]>,
"S." <[email protected]> wrote:


    > One of the most ridiculously high fares is Continental's Newark to B'ham
    > (BHX) ; it cannot be justified.

Has it occurred to you CO charges that much because people will pay to
get between NYC and Birmingham w/o a change of planes?

"Delta Dawn" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > (In fact I had better service on a short flight on TED (LAS-LAX) a few
    > days later, so it was a case of the no frills version being better than
    > the "standard" offering).

I think the most fun I've ever had on a flight was LAS-LAX with TED. The
cabin crew were hilarious and really made the day for us. We were a few
minutes late landing at LAS and the apology over the PA system included the
words "look at it this way - we've probably saved you a few hundred bucks!"

Ian

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 17:34:43 -0400, nobody <[email protected]> wrote:

    >[email protected] wrote:
    >> Not at all - Economics have shown again and again that people are not
    >> willing to pay for perks on flights.
    >Nop, those are slanted "surveys" to help justify decisions to cut service.
    >If you have a Southwet flight between A and B which costs $300 return
    >when purchased last minute, and a United flights which costs $1500 for
    >return, purchased last minute, you can draw many conclusions:
    >Yes, you can say that people are most likely to choose the "no service"
    >Southwest because it is cheaper than United.
    >It is not a false statement.
    >However, they choose it because the price difference between legacy
    >ticket prices and low cost ticket prices is so big that people are
    >willing to compromise on service.
    >Consider that a good meal costs perhaps $10 to provide. That doesn't
    >justify the $1200 price difference.
    >You'd have to find markets where you have a full service carrier
    >competiting against a no-service carrier and price differences are
    >exactly the value of the services you are or are not getting. Then, you
    >could judge whether people are eally choosing to save $10 to be treated
    >like cattle instead of paying the extra $10 and having a more enjoyable flight.
    >And also consider that a joyful staff on a no-service airline can make
    >up for bad attitude old FAs on the full service airline.
    >So drawing the conclusions that people are not willing to pay for
    >service is wrong. What is right is that people are not willing to pay
    >exhorbitant ticket prices because that isn't worth the value of extra
    >services they may be getting.
since when did Southwest and their operational standads apply to the
countries of the European Union?

Jeff Hacker wrote:

    > Welcome to the world of trolls. . .


Naw...the article is from the _The Sun_...

--
Best
Greg



    > "ddttzz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]. ..
    > > Posted on another forum by a Brit:
    > >
    > > Viking Charter Flight Horror
    > >
    > > A friend has come back off her holiday with the shakes! She flew out
    > > for Corfu from East Midlands on Excel Airways, lovley service she
    > > said, nice hot meal.
    > >
    > > Flew back from Corfu on a Viking MD83. This is as she told me,
    > > completley unpromted:
    > >
    > > "I was starving, I hadnt had a meal at the airport because I thought
    > > we would get one on the plane as we had coming out. It never occured
    > > to me it would be a different airline. When we got bussed to the
    > > aircraft I though 'oh god' whats that' (refering to the Viking MD83
    > > greeting her)
    > >
    > > I felt a bit nervous because I had never heard of them and it looked
    > > different to all the others, this had engines at the back and was
    > > really long and skinny. I started to get scared and even more so when
    > > we got on through these stairs at the back in the tail. It was like a
    > > secret passage, you walked up and you were inside the plane at the
    > > tail. The door hole was like a little trap door. drawbridge thing. I
    > > waas shitting myself.
    > >
    > > We were sat two rows from the back and Darren (her boyfriend) seat was
    > > like, really springy, and the woman at the back of him said 'that
    > > fellas got a rocking chair' The noise as we took off was really loud.
    > > I was very worried.
    > >
    > > Al the stewardess's talked funny like her with blond hair out of ABBA!
    > >
    > > Anyway, I was starving and looking forward to a meal like we had
    > > coming but do you know what? There was no meal and the hostess said we
    > > only have sandwiches or pringles for sale! I couldnt believe it! How
    > > come we had no meal and only offered a sandwich which we had to pay
    > > for? Anyway, I had a cheese sandwich because I was starving. We even
    > > had to pay for a cup of tea! It was free on Excel!
    > >
    > > I wanted to go to the toilet. I was desperate but the toilet was right
    > > at the back of us, near that funny trapdoor and I was too scared to go
    > > so I held it all the way back to Eat Midlands. It was the worst flight
    > > ever. I reckon nothing to them and I am telling travel agent I dont
    > > want to fly with Viking anymore!"
    > >
    > > Now my friend who told me this, knows nothing about aviation but flies
    > > a couple of times a year on holiday. Those who say that the average
    > > passenger knows or cares nothing about the plane/airline/service and
    > > just wants the cheapest havent met my friend and apparently a lot of
    > > other paople on the plane were grumbling.

x-posts cut

On Tue, 7 Jun 2005 16:35:13 -0500, "Jeff Hacker"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Welcome to the world of trolls. . .
    >"ddttzz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected] ...
    >> Posted on another forum by a Brit:
<snip>
    >> I wanted to go to the toilet. I was desperate but the toilet was right
    >> at the back of us, near that funny trapdoor and I was too scared to go
    >> so I held it all the way back to Eat Midlands.

Yep. Surely it was obvious from all the cross-posts - well
before you got to that ludicrous bit of nonsense.


Cheers, Alan, Australia

    >>>>> "gglave" == gglave <[email protected]> writes:
gglave> again. People ALWAYS complain about lack of movies or
gglave> food or leg room, but have consistently shown that if push
gglave> comes to shove they will always reject that in favour of a
gglave> cheaper fare.

I wonder though, if at purchase time it was quite clear what extra
service they could buy ($10 for an inflight meal, $30 for 2 inches
more legroom, and so forth), maybe people would pay more. I buy the
cheap flight because I am very doubtful of actually buying better
service. Mind you, I'm not saying that buying an airline ticket
cafeteria style is practical. Just that people probably would pay for
better service, if they truly got it and knew what they were buying.

[email protected] writes:

    > Not at all - Economics have shown again and again that people are not
    > willing to pay for perks on flights.

All people care about is the ticket price and being on time, and safety.
So you can cut out everything else and as long as the ticket price is
low enough and the planes aren't late (and don't crash), you'll beat the
competition.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

nobody writes:

    > However, they choose it because the price difference between legacy
    > ticket prices and low cost ticket prices is so big that people are
    > willing to compromise on service.

In other words, price is more important.

    > So drawing the conclusions that people are not willing to pay for
    > service is wrong. What is right is that people are not willing to pay
    > exhorbitant ticket prices because that isn't worth the value of extra
    > services they may be getting.

There is relatively little difference in service across airlines,
anyway. They all fly the same planes in the same way on the same
routes. No amount of service reduces flight time, and there's almost
nothing that can be done to reduce discomfort. And food and drink don't
significantly compensate for this.

--
Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Mxsmanic wrote:
>
    > They all fly the same planes in the same way on the same
    > routes.

No, they don't. Try checking flights between Newark and Atlanta, or Newark and
Birmingham, or Newark and Tampa. Some carriers have a direct flight when you
want it, some hub out of one city, some out of another, etc.. One way you might
get an MD-80, maybe a 737, perhaps a Fokker, and I forget what the twin is that
Continental shuttles down to Birmingham. Fly into somewhere more out of the way
(like Knoxville, TN), and you can choose between hubbing at Dulles, Atlanta,
Raleigh, Cincinatti, or Nashville.

They're running different planes and different routes between the same two cities.

George Patterson
Why do men's hearts beat faster, knees get weak, throats become dry,
and they think irrationally when a woman wears leather clothing?
Because she smells like a new truck.

Sorry, nobody, but you're not quite right. People flying in Economy class
buy tickets on price and price alone, once the hygience factors like safety
and destination are there. In fact, routing and aircraft type are
non-issues. People will fly from London to Amsterdam to New York if it's
cheaper than a London-NY direct service. it's not an issue of Economy
versus Business class - economy fare passengers only upgrade to Business
class when they're given it for free. Service and amenities are things
economy passengers are willing to bitch about but not pay for.

Because of this purchasing behaviour, economy fares are usually pretty low
and the airlines hardly make any money on them at all, the exception being
the lowcost carriers like Southwest and Easyjet. People put up with a lot
on those airlines because they're perceived to be cheaper (not always the
case, though)

Sorry, but that's the hard fact.

Shawn

"nobody" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] wrote:
    >> Not at all - Economics have shown again and again that people are not
    >> willing to pay for perks on flights.
    > Nop, those are slanted "surveys" to help justify decisions to cut service.
    > If you have a Southwet flight between A and B which costs $300 return
    > when purchased last minute, and a United flights which costs $1500 for
    > return, purchased last minute, you can draw many conclusions:
    > Yes, you can say that people are most likely to choose the "no service"
    > Southwest because it is cheaper than United.
    > It is not a false statement.
    > However, they choose it because the price difference between legacy
    > ticket prices and low cost ticket prices is so big that people are
    > willing to compromise on service.
    > Consider that a good meal costs perhaps $10 to provide. That doesn't
    > justify the $1200 price difference.
    > You'd have to find markets where you have a full service carrier
    > competiting against a no-service carrier and price differences are
    > exactly the value of the services you are or are not getting. Then, you
    > could judge whether people are eally choosing to save $10 to be treated
    > like cattle instead of paying the extra $10 and having a more enjoyable
    > flight.
    > And also consider that a joyful staff on a no-service airline can make
    > up for bad attitude old FAs on the full service airline.
    > So drawing the conclusions that people are not willing to pay for
    > service is wrong. What is right is that people are not willing to pay
    > exhorbitant ticket prices because that isn't worth the value of extra
    > services they may be getting.
    >> Here's a quote from a CNN article that references American Airlines
    > CNN is hardly a reliable source of unbiased information.
    >> (American is busily installing more seats in coach class in their
    >> planes after their "more room in coach" experiment failed to attract
    >> more passengers):
    >> "Robert Crandall, the crusty former boss at American Airlines, used to
    >> say that customers always talk in surveys about food and legroom. But
    >> when it comes to buying tickets, the only thing that ever matters to
    >> them is price.
    >> In other words, good service is nice but we'll put up with a lot if it
    >> means a cheaper seat. Americans, as a rule, won't pay more for a
    >> plusher seat or better food. And U.S. airlines know it."
    >> Source:
    >> http://money.cnn.com/2005/06/02/pf/g...lines/?cnn=yes
    >> Cheers,
    >> Geoff Glave
    >> Vancouver, Canada

[email protected] wrote:
    >>You are, I presume, joking, right????????
    >
    >
    > Not at all - Economics have shown again and again that people are not
    > willing to pay for perks on flights.
    >

Not a question of willingness to pay, but how much to pay. When you
look at the price difference, a "free" airline lunch can cost you as
much as dinner in a 4-star restaurant.

T.