Seriously, give me a break. I'm 37 and have traveled all over the US and
have never come across a road as narrow, curvy, or as dangerous as the
Amalfi Coast road, excluding crazy drivers like myself (so I have been
called on this newsgroup). There's no comparison to a paved US mountain
road. Nothing! Even if there was, there isn't the same kind of driving
pressure here as in Italy.

When I was in Arizona, I crossed the Coronado National Forest (has a
Mountain Range Elevation of 10,720 ft) with a light-truck and found that
peaceful compared to the Amalfi.

"B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:28:57 -0700, "Mimi" <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >>"The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]. ..
    >>> Following up to Frank
    >>>>For those who have never driven the Amalfi Coast should keep their trap
    >>>>shut. Your ignorance on the issue is so blatant. Get off your computer
    >>>>and
    >>>>make the drive yourself. Until then, keep your critiques and snide
    >>>>comments
    >>>>to you
    >>> I have driven the Amalfi coast, to Europeans its nothing that
    >>> unusual or difficult. Its just another winding mountain road,
    >>> surely such roads exist in US?
    >>Roads in the US are wider. And it's not just the road, it's the Italian
    >>drivers (and others) who pass on blind curves.
    > There are many very narrow roads in the US, mostly in rural areas.
    > --
    > Barbara Vaughan
    > My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot
    > it
    > I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

You feel pressured by some idiot behind you to drive likewise?
Seriously Frank, the only pressure I'm sensing is in your scrotum.
Think hard about that guy sitting in a German prison before you fire one
back at us...

Tim K

"Frank" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected] ...
    > Seriously, give me a break. I'm 37 and have traveled all over the US
and
    > have never come across a road as narrow, curvy, or as dangerous as the
    > Amalfi Coast road, excluding crazy drivers like myself (so I have been
    > called on this newsgroup). There's no comparison to a paved US
mountain
    > road. Nothing! Even if there was, there isn't the same kind of driving
    > pressure here as in Italy.
    > When I was in Arizona, I crossed the Coronado National Forest (has a
    > Mountain Range Elevation of 10,720 ft) with a light-truck and found
that
    > peaceful compared to the Amalfi.
    > "B Vaughan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On Thu, 22 Sep 2005 07:28:57 -0700, "Mimi" <[email protected]>
    > > wrote:
    > >
    > >>
    > >>"The Reids" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >>news:[email protected]. ..
    > >>> Following up to Frank
    > >>>
    > >>>>For those who have never driven the Amalfi Coast should keep their
trap
    > >>>>shut. Your ignorance on the issue is so blatant. Get off your
computer
    > >>>>and
    > >>>>make the drive yourself. Until then, keep your critiques and snide
    > >>>>comments
    > >>>>to you
    > >>>
    > >>> I have driven the Amalfi coast, to Europeans its nothing that
    > >>> unusual or difficult. Its just another winding mountain road,
    > >>> surely such roads exist in US?
    > >>
    > >>Roads in the US are wider. And it's not just the road, it's the
Italian
    > >>drivers (and others) who pass on blind curves.
    > >
    > > There are many very narrow roads in the US, mostly in rural areas.
    > > --
    > > Barbara Vaughan
    > > My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at
libero dot
    > > it
    > > I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 05:25:51 GMT, Timothy Kroesen wrote:

    > You feel pressured by some idiot behind you to drive likewise?
    > Seriously Frank, the only pressure I'm sensing is in your scrotum.
    > Think hard about that guy sitting in a German prison before you fire one
    > back at us...
    >
    > Tim K

I'll second that.

--
Tim C.

Following up to Frank

    >Seriously, give me a break. I'm 37 and have traveled all over the US and
    >have never come across a road as narrow, curvy, or as dangerous as the
    >Amalfi Coast road,

Well, this is odd, some seem to say there are narrow windy roads
in the US while others say they are all wide and straight, its a
big place I suppose and most have not been everywhere.

I think if you traveled a bit in rural Spain, the English Lake
District (hill roads) and Western Scotland the Amalfi coast would
not seem so exceptional.

    >excluding crazy drivers like myself (so I have been
    >called on this newsgroup). There's no comparison to a paved US mountain
    >road. Nothing! Even if there was, there isn't the same kind of driving
    >pressure here as in Italy.

There isn't any pressure. If people want to overtake, let them.
If you're happy to drive at local speeds, enjoy it. It is
difficult to avoid being tailgated, so leave a bigger gap ahead,
same goes for Spain. On motorways, if tailgated badly by a truck,
I slow and then speed up, then repeat when they do it again
(which they will, they think your stopping gap indicates you
don't want to overtake). In fog, get off the motorway.
In towns either let them get on with it or join in the fun, but
only if you see it as a game, if you get angry, pull over. (They
don't seem to get angry).
Its also worth trying to get a powerful car with decent
roadholding, not one of these "people carrier/MPV" vans disguised
as a car monstrosities.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Following up to Alan S

    >the Neapolitans are
    >without a doubt the craziest drivers on this planet.

the hotel doorman said "now you have driven in Napoli you can
drive anywhere, Bombay, Egypt", which was probably an
exaggeration, but it may be the craziest driving in western
Europe.

    >And the
    >Amalfi coast is probably the most spectacular section of
    >road that I've driven on

Well, a lot of people say that, but it didn't do much for me, I
wasn't moved to stop and take photos much, not like the west
coast of Scotland or the Hebrides. From when this came up before
I think its not my kind of scenery, others seem to like all the
rustic houses, I like something wilder feeling, like Rannoch Moor
and Glencoe.
I felt that about a lot of Italy, pretty, not beautiful (for me).

From the driving point of view, there was too much traffic and
towns, I've driven in lots of places in Spain, the Canaries and
the north of Britain with more exciting roads, sweeping fast
bends, steeper gradients, tighter hairpins etc and with the
benefit of little traffic. Except don't start me of on caravans
in the Highlands, with their attendant queue of people too timid
to overtake but without the brains or good manners (which?) to
leave a gap for those who can. Hang on, I have started off.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:55:47 +0100, The Reids
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >Following up to Alan S
    >>the Neapolitans are
    >>without a doubt the craziest drivers on this planet.
    >the hotel doorman said "now you have driven in Napoli you can
    >drive anywhere, Bombay, Egypt", which was probably an
    >exaggeration, but it may be the craziest driving in western
    >Europe.
    >>And the
    >>Amalfi coast is probably the most spectacular section of
    >>road that I've driven on
    >Well, a lot of people say that, but it didn't do much for me, I
    >wasn't moved to stop and take photos much, not like the west
    >coast of Scotland or the Hebrides. From when this came up before
    >I think its not my kind of scenery, others seem to like all the
    >rustic houses, I like something wilder feeling, like Rannoch Moor
    >and Glencoe.
    >I felt that about a lot of Italy, pretty, not beautiful (for me).
    >From the driving point of view, there was too much traffic and
    >towns, I've driven in lots of places in Spain, the Canaries and
    >the north of Britain with more exciting roads, sweeping fast
    >bends, steeper gradients, tighter hairpins etc and with the
    >benefit of little traffic. Except don't start me of on caravans
    >in the Highlands, with their attendant queue of people too timid
    >to overtake but without the brains or good manners (which?) to
    >leave a gap for those who can. Hang on, I have started off.

That's OK - start all you like. I have been both a
caravanner and a motorhomer (trailer and RV to the
norteamericanos), and like most of the experienced ones I
met in the caravan parks I'd keep an eye on the mirrors and
pull over as soon as a "tail" started to appear.
Occasionally some would even thank us as they passed - but
most didn't:-(

You definitely didn't want to be behind me when I was
creeping up the hill from Gladstone to Biloela in my
underpowered 2.6 ltr Magna Wagon flat out in first gear at
10km/hr. We later found that the van weighed 2000Kg - we had
thought it was only 1200; it turned out to be built on a
3/8" hollow square steel frame instead of aluminium.

In the UK we liked the roads around Loch Lomond, and later
down through the back roads in the Lakes District and
Abergavenny south towards Raglan - we were lucky to find
they were deserted when we travelled on them.

Cheers, Alan, Australia

On 22 Sep 2005 14:02:37 -0700, "PJ O'Donovan" <[email protected]> wrote:

    ><That must have been a while ago. It seems that all of them have at
    >least one self-service pump now.
    >B Vaughan>
    >If June 03 and June 04 "have been a while", at age 73, old age is
    >creeping up on me faster than I thought.
    >The stations in small communities did not seem to conform to what "all
    >of them" do. I did run into self service pumps taking credit cards
    >during siesta but either the pumps were also having siesta or didn't
    >like my American credit cards or the most likely the self serve pumps
    >didn't work at all or they were switched off not to work when
    >attendants were on siesta.

It's possible that the pumps you found had a problem with American
credit cards; I've never tried one. However, all the pumps I've seen
also accept euro notes.

I happen to live in a small town in a rural area, and almost every
service station around here has such pumps. As a matter of fact it's
getting hard to find a station with human service at certain hours. My
husband dislikes self-service pumps, especially if he's driving his
work car, because he can't get the little stamp he needs for tax
purposes.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:09:58 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I've now driven in 14 countries, and been chauffeured in six
    >others. There are several posting here with much wider
    >experience than I, like DFM or Miguel. I'd be interested to
    >know if they agree with my opinion that the Neapolitans are
    >without a doubt the craziest drivers on this planet.

I've had nowhere near your driving experience, but the craziest
drivers I've ever seen were in China during the late 1980s and early
1990s. The only rule of the road seemed to be that the most important
person had the right of way, and all the drivers were engaged in
trying to establish the ranking. I was usually being driven in an
official car of the State Statistical Bureau, and their drivers didn't
want to yield precedence to anyone who didn't have diplomatic plates.

Once on a limited-access, divided, 6-lane highway, our driver found
the traffic a bit heavy, so he crossed the median divide and drove in
the wrong direction on the other side, keeping his hand on the horn to
alert other drivers that somebody very important was coming through.

One of my colleagues usually made these trips crouched on the floor in
the back, in a fetal position with her arms crossed over the back of
her head.
--
Barbara Vaughan
My email address is my first initial followed by my surname at libero dot it
I answer travel questions only in the newsgroup

B Vaughan a écrit :

    > On Fri, 23 Sep 2005 08:09:58 +1000, Alan S <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >I've now driven in 14 countries, and been chauffeured in six
    > >others. There are several posting here with much wider
    > >experience than I, like DFM or Miguel. I'd be interested to
    > >know if they agree with my opinion that the Neapolitans are
    > >without a doubt the craziest drivers on this planet.
    > I've had nowhere near your driving experience, but the craziest
    > drivers I've ever seen were in China during the late 1980s and early
    > 1990s.

Likewise, my driving experience is limited, but I'll offer up Port
Harcourt, Nigeria as being sufficiently mad to merit a mention. On our
return to the airport from the office, the "freeway" was clogged in our
direction. Old hands told us it might take 3-4 hours to reach the
airport at that rate. Our police escort decided to lead us down the
"wrong" side of the freeway, sirens blaring and weapons at the ready,
driving at high speed into oncoming traffic. Driving behind them we had
some protection from a disaster, but it was a pretty hairy ride all the
same.

G;

The Reids a écrit :

    > if any Americans want a road that
    > really is quite difficult but still in Europe try the Hardnott
    > Pass in Cumbria, UK, which has real hairpins (full lock) is very
    > steep to the point of wheelspin if you have to restart and
    > requires first gear for a lot of the time, and is only wide
    > enough for one car at a time (there are passing places) ).

Yes, but it's near Windscale, so according to Mixi-logic the only thing
to worry about is the military reactor.

It *is* impressive - no doubt why it's signposted "no caravans"!!

G;

Following up to B Vaughan

    >One of my colleagues usually made these trips crouched on the floor in
    >the back, in a fetal position with her arms crossed over the back of
    >her head.

great story, that's real travel!
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Following up to Alan S

    > I have been both a
    >caravanner and a motorhomer (trailer and RV to the
    >norteamericanos), and like most of the experienced ones I
    >met in the caravan parks I'd keep an eye on the mirrors and
    >pull over as soon as a "tail" started to appear.

I agree, many caravanners do pull over, a vehicle cant really be
blamed for being slow, its the closed up cars behind that turn it
into an unovertakable "super artic". One vehicle is easy to
overtake in the Highlands, 10 impossible.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Following up to [email protected]

    >> if any Americans want a road that
    >> really is quite difficult but still in Europe try the Hardnott
    >> Pass in Cumbria, UK, which has real hairpins (full lock) is very
    >> steep to the point of wheelspin if you have to restart and
    >> requires first gear for a lot of the time, and is only wide
    >> enough for one car at a time (there are passing places) ).
    >Yes, but it's near Windscale, so according to Mixi-logic the only thing
    >to worry about is the military reactor.
    >It *is* impressive - no doubt why it's signposted "no caravans"!!

Did you hear about the truck? An artic got lost and asked the way
to Wasdale, (out of the truck I assume) and was giving directions
over the pass. He came in on that road halfway (Seathwaite?) and
made it as far as the first steep bit which was both clever and
stupid. It was on the cover of "Trucking" or some such mag. They
had to chock the cab and disconect the trailer, not sure how they
held it, you wouldnt be able to get a heavy recovery vehicle past
it and how do you handle a trailer on a 1 in 3?.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

The Reids a écrit :

    > Following up to [email protected]
    > >> if any Americans want a road that
    > >> really is quite difficult but still in Europe try the Hardnott
    > >> Pass in Cumbria, UK, which has real hairpins (full lock) is very
    > >> steep to the point of wheelspin if you have to restart and
    > >> requires first gear for a lot of the time, and is only wide
    > >> enough for one car at a time (there are passing places) ).
    > >
    > >Yes, but it's near Windscale, so according to Mixi-logic the only thing
    > >to worry about is the military reactor.
    > >
    > >It *is* impressive - no doubt why it's signposted "no caravans"!!
    > Did you hear about the truck? An artic got lost and asked the way
    > to Wasdale, (out of the truck I assume) and was giving directions
    > over the pass. He came in on that road halfway (Seathwaite?) and
    > made it as far as the first steep bit which was both clever and
    > stupid. It was on the cover of "Trucking" or some such mag. They
    > had to chock the cab and disconect the trailer, not sure how they
    > held it, you wouldnt be able to get a heavy recovery vehicle past
    > it and how do you handle a trailer on a 1 in 3?.

Heh! I've only driven it in a knackered estate car, and that was bad
enough!

G;

    > Don't even get me started with Rome...

I remember standing beside a one way, three lane, road near the
Vatican when to my complete astonishment a driver in the middle lane
braked and reversed back to take the turning he had missed. The
following drivers didn't seem to mind and just swerved round him.

I bottled out and totally refused to drive in Rome. My colleague
drove (imagine demented maniac thinking he was on the dodgems and
loving every minute of it).

I just prayed.

Derek.