The Choice on Iraq
Feb 27th 2007 | 10:52 pm
#31
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Choice on Iraq
On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:34:42 +0100, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Blair appears on the same pathway to the dustbin of history.
>But generally the US policy to minimize deaths among the
>other members of the coalition worked.
UK lost a soldier just now.
>What is certain in my mind is that generally the well informed
>in the UK knew more about the dangers of invading Iraq
>than the "well informed" in the US.
OK
>The US has been historically
>into prosylizing democracy, the old Wilsonian dream. The British
>"white man's burden" of its colonial period died after WWII,
>the US took up another version of same. The Wilsonian dream
>has broad support in the US, it is spans both political parties.
>It is quasi-religious in intensity.
>"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God,' "
rather worrying.
>said Nabil Shaath, who was the Palestinian foreign minister at the time of a
>top-level meeting with Bush in June 2003.
>
>True or not true?? I tend to believe that Bush did believe he had God's
>support in this venture.
Blair too it seems (in general terms).
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
wrote:
>Blair appears on the same pathway to the dustbin of history.
>But generally the US policy to minimize deaths among the
>other members of the coalition worked.
UK lost a soldier just now.
>What is certain in my mind is that generally the well informed
>in the UK knew more about the dangers of invading Iraq
>than the "well informed" in the US.
OK
>The US has been historically
>into prosylizing democracy, the old Wilsonian dream. The British
>"white man's burden" of its colonial period died after WWII,
>the US took up another version of same. The Wilsonian dream
>has broad support in the US, it is spans both political parties.
>It is quasi-religious in intensity.
>"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God,' "
rather worrying.
>said Nabil Shaath, who was the Palestinian foreign minister at the time of a
>top-level meeting with Bush in June 2003.
>
>True or not true?? I tend to believe that Bush did believe he had God's
>support in this venture.
Blair too it seems (in general terms).
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
Feb 28th 2007 | 1:05 am
#32
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Choice on Iraq
On 28/02/07 12:52, in article [email protected],
"The Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God,' "
>
> rather worrying.
I am more worried about the general belief in American exceptionalism
by nearly all the population of the US. So classical right-left
ideological separations do not exist on this issue. It is
particularly strong in the USA although exists in other countries
no doubt the UK and France.
The "God with us" thing also exists and Americans are generally more
religious than Europeans. There is some belief that God has chosen
America for a special mission.
The tremendous cost of Vietnam, in lives loss on the American
side (the Americans never did realizd how many Vietnamese got killed)
money, and in national self-esteem in having loss, should have taught
the nation something but the Iraq adventure shows that that historical
lesson was loss in a generation.
Discouraging.
"The Reid" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God,' "
>
> rather worrying.
I am more worried about the general belief in American exceptionalism
by nearly all the population of the US. So classical right-left
ideological separations do not exist on this issue. It is
particularly strong in the USA although exists in other countries
no doubt the UK and France.
The "God with us" thing also exists and Americans are generally more
religious than Europeans. There is some belief that God has chosen
America for a special mission.
The tremendous cost of Vietnam, in lives loss on the American
side (the Americans never did realizd how many Vietnamese got killed)
money, and in national self-esteem in having loss, should have taught
the nation something but the Iraq adventure shows that that historical
lesson was loss in a generation.
Discouraging.
Feb 28th 2007 | 3:59 am
#33
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Choice on Iraq
"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>> Even more odd is that The Independent thinks they shouldn't leave now.
> --
This is currently being discussed on other (rather more relevant!)
newsgroups.
Currently Basra is certainly not improving - the situation is static at best
and is more probably declining.
The 'locals' are still by no means ready as yet.
The current reduction of troops is therefore odd and has to be political.
Simple as that.
It is merely the start of what numerous of us were saying well
pre-invasion - the withdrawal will be accompanied by such remarks as "We've
done our job, it is now up to the Iraqis to run their own country".
The fact that chaos will probably ensue when troops are reduced by any
significant numbers is assumed amid similar remarks "it is now up to the
Iraqis to run their own country".
If a truly unified Iraq did result - which has odds of around 1,000-1
against - it would only be under another Saddam-like dictator.
Which is why invasion should never have happened. It was all too easily
foreseeable.
Surreyman
news:[email protected]...
>> Even more odd is that The Independent thinks they shouldn't leave now.
> --
This is currently being discussed on other (rather more relevant!)
newsgroups.
Currently Basra is certainly not improving - the situation is static at best
and is more probably declining.
The 'locals' are still by no means ready as yet.
The current reduction of troops is therefore odd and has to be political.
Simple as that.
It is merely the start of what numerous of us were saying well
pre-invasion - the withdrawal will be accompanied by such remarks as "We've
done our job, it is now up to the Iraqis to run their own country".
The fact that chaos will probably ensue when troops are reduced by any
significant numbers is assumed amid similar remarks "it is now up to the
Iraqis to run their own country".
If a truly unified Iraq did result - which has odds of around 1,000-1
against - it would only be under another Saddam-like dictator.
Which is why invasion should never have happened. It was all too easily
foreseeable.
Surreyman
Mar 1st 2007 | 6:20 am
#34
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Choice on Iraq
"The Reid" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:34:42 +0100, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
> wrote:
/ -- /
>>"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God,' "
>
> rather worrying.
>
>>said Nabil Shaath, who was the Palestinian foreign minister at the time of
>>a
>>top-level meeting with Bush in June 2003.
>>
>>True or not true?? I tend to believe that Bush did believe he had God's
>>support in this venture.
>
> Blair too it seems (in general terms).
Eh - dosen't that put Christian teaching on its' head?
Isn't it the beleivers who are suppose to be carefull to do His will -
not hope that He will support thier <miss-> deeds.
The bottom line is - if humanity is so pig-stupid as to be into
all-thing-military.. then at
least make the decisions with the brain, basing them on real
information/knowledge,
not with some -faith-based-non-entity- based on Myths and ignorance.
ron b.
(RAF disab. veteran.)
news:[email protected]...
> On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:34:42 +0100, Earl Evleth <[email protected]>
> wrote:
/ -- /
>>"President Bush said to all of us: 'I'm driven with a mission from God,' "
>
> rather worrying.
>
>>said Nabil Shaath, who was the Palestinian foreign minister at the time of
>>a
>>top-level meeting with Bush in June 2003.
>>
>>True or not true?? I tend to believe that Bush did believe he had God's
>>support in this venture.
>
> Blair too it seems (in general terms).
Eh - dosen't that put Christian teaching on its' head?
Isn't it the beleivers who are suppose to be carefull to do His will -
not hope that He will support thier <miss-> deeds.
The bottom line is - if humanity is so pig-stupid as to be into
all-thing-military.. then at
least make the decisions with the brain, basing them on real
information/knowledge,
not with some -faith-based-non-entity- based on Myths and ignorance.
ron b.
(RAF disab. veteran.)
Mar 1st 2007 | 6:26 am
#35
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Choice on Iraq
"a.spencer3" <[email protected]> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:C209BCA1.D2A7B%[email protected]...
>> On 26/02/07 20:17, in article > What I think the US will now try and
> appear
>> successful enough to pull out as it did in Vietnam. Declare
>> the war won and that the responsibility for the future
>> lies with Iraqi behavior. If the misbehave by fighting
>> èach other, that is not the fault of the Americans.
>>
>
> If you read the appropriate newsgroups, rather than here off-topic, you
> would see that numerous of us were saying just that well pre-Invasion.
>
> Trouble is, Bush & Blair don't seem to read those newsgroups either!
>
> I'm told the CIA does, though. But they also obviously didn't take any
> notice! And, of course, they're still trying to make up for the Bay of
> Pigs.
>
Caution: Irony - ON:-
I don't see what the problem is.
The big business and oil people grouped around Prescoe e e e e George B.
have made supra-profits.
Nothing else matters.
ron b.
BT
NNNN
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Earl Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:C209BCA1.D2A7B%[email protected]...
>> On 26/02/07 20:17, in article > What I think the US will now try and
> appear
>> successful enough to pull out as it did in Vietnam. Declare
>> the war won and that the responsibility for the future
>> lies with Iraqi behavior. If the misbehave by fighting
>> èach other, that is not the fault of the Americans.
>>
>
> If you read the appropriate newsgroups, rather than here off-topic, you
> would see that numerous of us were saying just that well pre-Invasion.
>
> Trouble is, Bush & Blair don't seem to read those newsgroups either!
>
> I'm told the CIA does, though. But they also obviously didn't take any
> notice! And, of course, they're still trying to make up for the Bay of
> Pigs.
>
Caution: Irony - ON:-
I don't see what the problem is.
The big business and oil people grouped around Prescoe e e e e George B.
have made supra-profits.
Nothing else matters.
ron b.
BT
NNNN
Mar 1st 2007 | 6:57 pm
#36
Guest
Posts: n/a
Re: The Choice on Iraq
On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 20:20:02 +0100, "Ron Bartle"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>True or not true?? I tend to believe that Bush did believe he had God's
>>>support in this venture.
>>
>> Blair too it seems (in general terms).
>
>Eh - dosen't that put Christian teaching on its' head?
it wouldn't be the first time
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
<[email protected]> wrote:
>>>True or not true?? I tend to believe that Bush did believe he had God's
>>>support in this venture.
>>
>> Blair too it seems (in general terms).
>
>Eh - dosen't that put Christian teaching on its' head?
it wouldn't be the first time
--
Mike Reid
UK walking, food, photos "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Spain walking, food, tourism "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk"
Beginners UK flight sim addons "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"
