On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:58:35 +0200, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
wrote:

    >On 2005-07-05 10:28:23 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> said:
    >> I know what Champagne is. I also know that International Wine and
    >> Spirit Competition has a separate category for English sparkling wine
    >> for each year and that far from being the best in the world Merret
    >> Bloomsbury only won a bronze in this category. IWSC is a commercial
    >> operation without much value.
    >Maybe if Chirac had know that he wouldn't be so bitter.

The French don't know the meaning of bitter.
--
Martin

"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:58:35 +0200, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    > >On 2005-07-05 10:28:23 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> said:
    > >
    > >> I know what Champagne is. I also know that International Wine and
    > >> Spirit Competition has a separate category for English sparkling wine
    > >> for each year and that far from being the best in the world Merret
    > >> Bloomsbury only won a bronze in this category. IWSC is a commercial
    > >> operation without much value.
    > >
    > >Maybe if Chirac had know that he wouldn't be so bitter.
    > The French don't know the meaning of bitter.

I'm sure they get first prize in their own beer festivals.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:02:32 +0100, "Miss L. Toe"
<[email protected]> wrote:

    >"Martin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected].. .
    >> On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 17:58:35 +0200, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
    >> wrote:
    >> >On 2005-07-05 10:28:23 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> said:
    >> >
    >> >> I know what Champagne is. I also know that International Wine and
    >> >> Spirit Competition has a separate category for English sparkling wine
    >> >> for each year and that far from being the best in the world Merret
    >> >> Bloomsbury only won a bronze in this category. IWSC is a commercial
    >> >> operation without much value.
    >> >
    >> >Maybe if Chirac had know that he wouldn't be so bitter.
    >> The French don't know the meaning of bitter.
    >I'm sure they get first prize in their own beer festivals.

but not from me :-)

IWSC Gnats Piss Carbonated French Bitter category 2004 bronze medal
winner.
--
Martin

In article <[email protected] .com>,
Jordi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Miss L. Toe ha escrito:
    > >
    > > But Champagne is nothing but sparkling wine, that happens to be produced in
    > > a certain specific area of France.
    >
    > Not exactly. Champagne is a very specific sparkling wine made under
    > very restrictive standards, geography being only one of them.

All of which many of the grower's would like removed, so they can be
more competitive in a world market that is not familiar with french
terminology.

jay
Tue Jul 05, 2005
mailto:[email protected]


    >
    > J.

Go Fig ha escrito:
    > In article <[email protected] .com>,
    > Jordi <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Miss L. Toe ha escrito:
    > > >
    > > > But Champagne is nothing but sparkling wine, that happens to be produced in
    > > > a certain specific area of France.
    > >
    > > Not exactly. Champagne is a very specific sparkling wine made under
    > > very restrictive standards, geography being only one of them.
    > All of which many of the grower's would like removed, so they can be
    > more competitive in a world market that is not familiar with french
    > terminology.

Absolutely wrong, they want them to be as restrictive as possible so
that wine from nearby regions can't be called 'champagne'.

When it comes to wine, French terminology is the standard (so that you
find pinot, chardonnay or cavernet-sauvignon grapes in wines from
California to South Africa and from Romania to Chile).


J.

On Tue, 05 Jul 2005 10:30:05 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:51:06 GMT, DDT Filled Mormons
    ><deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
    >>On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 18:08:43 +0200, Martin <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>>On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:03:54 +0200, The Rev Gaston <[email protected]>
    >>>wrote:
    >>>>Chirac is just being a silly child after his humiliation in the polls.
    >>>>Note that his fellow jesters are the leaders of Germany and Russia -
    >>>>neither noted for gastronomic excellence.
    >>>There's nowt wrong with German food.
    >>As long as it's 6 steins, followed by a kebab.
    >Hardly typical German food.

Turkish food in Germany is often pretty good. Kinda preferable to the
local meat 'n potatoes stuff.
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

In article <[email protected] .com>,
Jordi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Go Fig ha escrito:
    > > In article <[email protected] .com>,
    > > Jordi <[email protected]> wrote:
    > >
    > > > Miss L. Toe ha escrito:
    > > > >
    > > > > But Champagne is nothing but sparkling wine, that happens to be
    > > > > produced in
    > > > > a certain specific area of France.
    > > >
    > > > Not exactly. Champagne is a very specific sparkling wine made under
    > > > very restrictive standards, geography being only one of them.
    > >
    > > All of which many of the grower's would like removed, so they can be
    > > more competitive in a world market that is not familiar with french
    > > terminology.
    >
    > Absolutely wrong, they want them to be as restrictive as possible so
    > that wine from nearby regions can't be called 'champagne'.

Sure they have a monopoly in a very small region, the rest of the
growers want these restrictions gone... so they can sell their
"champagne" on the world market based on quality and price.

Time will tell, but from the interview I saw on Lou Dobbs with a member
of a large French growers consortium... this was #1 on their hit list
and found it a major impediment to international sales.

jay
Tue Jul 05, 2005
mailto:[email protected]


    >
    > When it comes to wine, French terminology is the standard (so that you
    > find pinot, chardonnay or cavernet-sauvignon grapes in wines from
    > California to South Africa and from Romania to Chile).
    >
    >
    > J.

DDT wrote on Tue, 05 Jul 2005 17:00:39 GMT:

??>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:51:06 GMT, DDT Filled Mormons
??>> <deepfreudmoors@eITmISaACTUALLYiREAL!l.nu> wrote:
??>>
??>>> On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 18:08:43 +0200, Martin
<[email protected]> wrote:
??>>>
??>>>> On Mon, 4 Jul 2005 18:03:54 +0200, The Rev Gaston
??>>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
??>>>
??>>>>> Chirac is just being a silly child after his
??>>>>> humiliation in the polls. Note that his fellow jesters
??>>>>> are the leaders of Germany and Russia - neither noted
??>>>>> for gastronomic excellence.
??>>>>
??>>>> There's nowt wrong with German food.
??>>>
??>>> As long as it's 6 steins, followed by a kebab.
??>>
??>> Hardly typical German food.

DFM> Turkish food in Germany is often pretty good. Kinda
DFM> preferable to the local meat 'n potatoes stuff.

The Germans have been eating Turkish food since 1962 to my own
knowledge. I remember eating "shaslik" (or something like that!)
from a stall on the banks of the Rhine.

It's not Turkish, but as far as snacks go, bratwurst is not at
all bad but I would prefer to have some bread hot-dog style
which was not the custom in Hamburg. Of course, in Hamburg they
seem to have been corrupted by the British. Labskaus is
Liverpool Scouse and I have seen British yellow custard served
with apple strudel. I have to admit that the American friends I
was with thought that was great!

In general, many German meals that I remember with pleasure
involved
foreign cuisine, including TexMex and Indian. I have had very
good Wiener Schnitzel but is that truly German?





James Silverton, Potomac, MD.

On Tue, 5 Jul 2005 13:15:41 -0400, "James Silverton"
<not.jim.silverton.at.comcast.net> wrote:

    >In general, many German meals that I remember with pleasure
    >involved
    >foreign cuisine, including TexMex and Indian. I have had very
    >good Wiener Schnitzel but is that truly German?

Apparently it came from Milan, so I guess not!
--
---
DFM - http://www.deepfriedmars.com
---
--

Go Fig wrote:
    > In article <[email protected] .com>,

    > Sure they have a monopoly in a very small region, the rest of the
    > growers want these restrictions gone... so they can sell their
    > "champagne" on the world market based on quality and price.

But the rest of the growers are not, as per today, making champagne.
The champagne producers are genuinely interested in keeping the statu
quo as the relative scarcity of the champagne allows them to keep a
margin wide enough so that the quality is kept consistent.

    > Time will tell, but from the interview I saw on Lou Dobbs with a member
    > of a large French growers consortium... this was #1 on their hit list
    > and found it a major impediment to international sales.

Driving sales up will make the price go down, which will not be a good
thing in the long run.

It's plain simple, everyone will be able to make sparkling wine with
any of the available methods, only some of them will be able to label
their product 'champagne', the current producers will not allow any
change. The French are very good at this.

It's not necessarily a bad thing, Spanish cava is at least as good as
champagne, and has managed to get an international name on his own,
which proves that this system does not keep good wines out of the
market.

J.

In article <[email protected] .com>,
Jordi <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Go Fig wrote:
    > > In article <[email protected] .com>,
    >
    > >
    > > Sure they have a monopoly in a very small region, the rest of the
    > > growers want these restrictions gone... so they can sell their
    > > "champagne" on the world market based on quality and price.
    > >
    >
    > But the rest of the growers are not, as per today, making champagne.
    > The champagne producers are genuinely interested in keeping the statu
    > quo as the relative scarcity of the champagne allows them to keep a
    > margin wide enough so that the quality is kept consistent.

No, it is about protecting the monopoly, not about quality. The origin
of the law is protectionism.
    >
    > > Time will tell, but from the interview I saw on Lou Dobbs with a member
    > > of a large French growers consortium... this was #1 on their hit list
    > > and found it a major impediment to international sales.
    > >
    >
    > Driving sales up will make the price go down, which will not be a good
    > thing in the long run.

Employing new people in the champagne industry is good in the short and
long run, growers need to change supply based on demand.. not regions.
    >
    > It's plain simple, everyone will be able to make sparkling wine with
    > any of the available methods, only some of them will be able to label
    > their product 'champagne',

A protected class.

    > the current producers will not allow any
    > change. The French are very good at this.

and some want it to change immediately.

    >
    > It's not necessarily a bad thing, Spanish cava is at least as good as
    > champagne, and has managed to get an international name on his own,

Ok, but that doesn't help the guy in France that wants to sell
champagne but resides in the wrong region.

jay
Tue Jul 05, 2005
mailto:[email protected]


    > which proves that this system does not keep good wines out of the
    > market.
    >
    > J.

Go Fig ha escrito:

    > No, it is about protecting the monopoly, not about quality. The origin
    > of the law is protectionism.

It is, but one of the results is consistent quality. Lifting the rules
would result in the product losing value and the producers not being
able to keep with the costly methods they are using until today.

    > >
    > > Driving sales up will make the price go down, which will not be a good
    > > thing in the long run.
    > Employing new people in the champagne industry is good in the short and
    > long run, growers need to change supply based on demand.. not regions.

Employing new people is not good if you need X new employees for one
year and the next you have to fire them because the margin has dropped
down to an unacceptable level, and firing people is not a trivial issue
in France.

    > >
    > > It's plain simple, everyone will be able to make sparkling wine with
    > > any of the available methods, only some of them will be able to label
    > > their product 'champagne',
    > A protected class.

That their consumers appreciate as such.

    > > the current producers will not allow any
    > > change. The French are very good at this.
    > and some want it to change immediately.

If I were making Chevrolets I'd like to label them Ferraris. Most
importantly, everyone making Chevrolets would like to label them
Ferraris.

    > >
    > > It's not necessarily a bad thing, Spanish cava is at least as good as
    > > champagne, and has managed to get an international name on his own,
    > Ok, but that doesn't help the guy in France that wants to sell
    > champagne but resides in the wrong region.

Too bad for him, if he makes good wine, he will sell it anyway without
resorting to put a false label. See cava, the muscat of Asti or, inside
France, Saumur.


J.

Following up to Earl Evleth

    > California also had Basque
    >restaurants, which most people thought were French but not quite. One was
    >served communally, starting out with a large bowl of soup in the middle
    >of the table from which one served one's self. This kind of "French" food
    >is tasty but not elegant, this is français de souche, stuff.

Basque food may well be the worlds best, it isn't French. Go to
Spain, St Sebastian, try the tapas all over town and go to Arzak
and Akelari.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Following up to The Rev Gaston

    >> Jacques Chirac (Ã droite) avec Gerhard Schroder (Ã gauche) et Vladimir
    >> Poutine à Kaliningrad dimanche (AP)
    >Chirac is just being a silly child after his humiliation in the polls.
    >Note that his fellow jesters are the leaders of Germany and Russia -
    >neither noted for gastronomic excellence.

Indeed, I wonder if the Finn will vote for France to get the
Olympics?

    >Maybe he is looking forward to sampling some of the British sparkling
    >wine which recently won top spot in a competition?

we have the terroir and thanks to Bush we are slowly getting the
weather!
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"

Following up to Jordi

    >> But Champagne is nothing but sparkling wine, that happens to be produced in
    >> a certain specific area of France.
    >Not exactly. Champagne is a very specific sparkling wine made under
    >very restrictive standards, geography being only one of them.

Primarily it must be bottle fermented rather than artificially
gassed, other wines of course use this "method champonoise" but
dont have the same terroir.
--
Mike Reid
Walk-eat-UK "http://www.fellwalk.co.uk" <-- you can email us@ this site
Walk-eat-Spain "http://www.fell-walker.co.uk" <-- dontuse@ all, it's a spamtrap
Photos of both "http://www.lawn-mower-man.co.uk"