On Wed, 26 Feb 2003 06:42:32 -0500, "R J Carpenter"
wrote:

    >After driving a rental Twingo or two, I'd prefer a more conventional car.

I just like the unique/bizarre look of the Twingo. My ideal car would
be a '69 Firebird 400 Convertible. Blow all those frog cars off the
road.

    >Why did they have to place the instruments (including speedometer) in the
    >middle of the car instead of directly in front of the driver.

Because they're French. You're expecting something rational?

If you're not too big and living urban, get a Renault Twingo or a small Peugeot.
Dave

ellie wrote in message news:...
    > We're going to be moving from the US to France in the fall and will be
    > buying a car sometime after that. Other than having rented cars when
    > we're in France, I'm totally unfamiliar with car models and makes there.
    > Hell, I'm unfamiliar with them here! ;-) We'll be looking for
    > something small, of course, very fuel efficient, and comparatively
    > inexpensive.

    > Interesting. I used to have a Ford Fiesta many years ago and it was one
    > of my all time favorite cars. I'll have to look them up. I never see
    > them here in the US; maybe they're only made for the non-US market. Or
    > maybe it's just that no one around here has one. I live in the land of
    > soccer moms with huge SUVs.

I don't think Ford is selling Fiestas in the U.S. at the moment. AFAIK
the smallest available Ford in the U.S. is a Focus (which the upcoming
"New Fiesta" somewhat resembles).

By contrast, here in Europe there are two smaller Ford models: the
Fiesta and the dinky little Ka, which looks a bit like an AMC Pacer
that was left in the dryer too long.

-Peter in Brussels

Peter Hartikka wrote:
    >>Interesting. I used to have a Ford Fiesta many years ago and it was one
    >>of my all time favorite cars. I'll have to look them up. I never see
    >>them here in the US; maybe they're only made for the non-US market. Or
    >>maybe it's just that no one around here has one. I live in the land of
    >>soccer moms with huge SUVs.
    >
    >
    > I don't think Ford is selling Fiestas in the U.S. at the moment. AFAIK
    > the smallest available Ford in the U.S. is a Focus (which the upcoming
    > "New Fiesta" somewhat resembles).
    >
    > By contrast, here in Europe there are two smaller Ford models: the
    > Fiesta and the dinky little Ka, which looks a bit like an AMC Pacer
    > that was left in the dryer too long.
    >
    > -Peter in Brussels

Haaaaa! I like that description. I remember seeing this model in a
parking lot in Carcassonne - I noticed it because of the funny name. I
guess it's a play on the word "car"?

"R J Carpenter" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Ringolevio" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > Britain is not the only country to drive on the left, there are about 40
    > > others... but I suppose UK is the main one for Renault.
    > Thus my comment.
    > Renault is called Nissan in Japan (they control N.). I don't imagine that
    > Renault is much of a factor in the Indian subcontinent or English-speaking
    > Africa, Caribbean, Oz or NZ.
    > Bob C.

I think Renault controls Nissan, but my understand is that product ranges,
marketing and operations are quite separate.
So if Renault cars are sold in Japan they should be sold as Renaults. At
least that is how I understand it.

Renault used to be quite popular here in Indonesia (yet another of those
lands that drive on the left lands in Asia, like Japan, Thailand,
Malaysia... not just India) but have faded badly in the last few years.
I think they have also lost share in Oz.

Seems rather strange from this perspective that they are the ones to put
Nissan back in order!

Roger
Jakarta

"Ringolevio" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > I think Renault controls Nissan, but my understand is that product ranges,
    > marketing and operations are quite separate.
    > So if Renault cars are sold in Japan they should be sold as Renaults. At
    > least that is how I understand it.

Doubtless true, but my point was that Renault gives signs of assigning some
areas to Renault cars and others to Nissans.

    > Renault used to be quite popular here in Indonesia (yet another of those
    > lands that drive on the left lands in Asia, like Japan, Thailand,
    > Malaysia... not just India) but have faded badly in the last few years.
    > I think they have also lost share in Oz.
    > Seems rather strange from this perspective that they are the ones to put
    > Nissan back in order!

Yes, I've thought that it must be a real thorn in the side of the Nissan
people to have Renault send a Brazilian to straighten out their problems.
;-))

"Peter Hartikka" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > By contrast, here in Europe there are two smaller Ford models: the
    > Fiesta and the dinky little Ka, which looks a bit like an AMC Pacer
    > that was left in the dryer too long.

Isn't the Ka a Far Eastern import, built to Ford's specs?

"David" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > If you're not too big and living urban, get a Renault Twingo or a small
Peugeot.

The late French grandfather of a friend thought that the Peugeot was the
only car a "serious" Frenchman would drive.

A French couple I know gave a Citroen A-10 ?? to their daughter when she
graduated from the 'X' [Ecole Polytechnique]. It was only when the parts
started falling off that they discovered it was Czech-built. That must have
been a decade ago, since the daughter was mobilized during the Gulf War (all
'X' grads are reserve officers).

"R J Carpenter" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "Peter Hartikka" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > By contrast, here in Europe there are two smaller Ford models: the
    > > Fiesta and the dinky little Ka, which looks a bit like an AMC Pacer
    > > that was left in the dryer too long.
    > Isn't the Ka a Far Eastern import, built to Ford's specs?

Was it not sold, without great success, as the "Aspire" (commonly pronounced
Gasper) in the US?


--
James V. Silverton
Potomac, Maryland, USA

James Silverton wrote:
    > "R J Carpenter" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    >>"Peter Hartikka" wrote in message
    >>news:[email protected]...
    >>>By contrast, here in Europe there are two smaller Ford models: the
    >>>Fiesta and the dinky little Ka, which looks a bit like an AMC Pacer
    >>>that was left in the dryer too long.
    >>Isn't the Ka a Far Eastern import, built to Ford's specs?
    >
    > Was it not sold, without great success, as the "Aspire" (commonly pronounced
    > Gasper) in the US?

It was not. The Aspire and the Ka are completely different. The
Aspire is (believe it or not) a larger car than the itty-bitty
Ka, which is in the same class as the Renault Twingo - a sub-sub-
compact. About the only thing smaller is a Smart.

The last time I drove in Belgium and France, I had a Mercedes-Benz
A170 with diesel motor. Great car, great mileage, would buy one
in a minute, and I wish I could get one in the USA.
--
DGS

"R J Carpenter" wrote in message news:...
    > "David" wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > If you're not too big and living urban, get a Renault Twingo or a small
    > Peugeot.
    >
    > The late French grandfather of a friend thought that the Peugeot was the
    > only car a "serious" Frenchman would drive.

When we moved to France in 1994 we bought a Peugeot 306 diesel, which
we were very happy with except that having no previous experience with
diesels we were shocked at how noisy and dirty the engine was (but
what great mileage... er, kilometrage). We vowed the next car would
not be diesel; however, last year we had to replace our (very old)
second car and discovered that great advances had been made in diesel
engines. They are much quieter now and are supposed to be even less
polluting than gasoline engines. We bought a 307 diesel hatchback and
overnight the beloved 306 changed from the "good" car to the
rattletrap. The 307 came with a "green" sticker to put on the
windshield for days when pollution levels are high and the govt
restricts city driving to clean cars (not a concern where we live but
reassuring). The 306 was extremely reliable and comfortable to drive
but we're even more pleased with the 307.

I second the previous posts about getting local advice on the best
dealer. We bought the second Peugeot mainly because the dealer's
garage in our area is excellent whereas friends with Renaults had
nothing but repair horror stories.

    > The last time I drove in Belgium and France, I had a Mercedes-Benz
    > A170 with diesel motor. Great car, great mileage, would buy one
    > in a minute, and I wish I could get one in the USA.

My own experience with an A-class (yes, I rented one of those too)
couldn't have been more different... it was uncomfortable, fit and
finish were terrible -- a Mercedes should NOT squeak and rattle every
time it hits a pothole! -- and I couldn't wait to return it.

    > The late French grandfather of a friend thought that the Peugeot was the
    > only car a "serious" Frenchman would drive.

My impression is that Peugeot is the best (or, if you prefer, the
"least bad") of the French marques. In fact, the 307 was voted
European Car of the Year in (I think) 2001, and the 206 has replaced
the VW Golf as the best-selling car in Europe.

However, some of the new Renaults look pretty cool, now that the
cutting-edge design of the Avantime/Vel Satis is percolating down to
the Mégane level. That said, I haven't been too impressed with any of
the Renaults I've driven.

Peter Hartikka wrote:
    >>The late French grandfather of a friend thought that the Peugeot was the
    >>only car a "serious" Frenchman would drive.
    >
    >
    > My impression is that Peugeot is the best (or, if you prefer, the
    > "least bad") of the French marques. In fact, the 307 was voted
    > European Car of the Year in (I think) 2001, and the 206 has replaced
    > the VW Golf as the best-selling car in Europe.
    >
    > However, some of the new Renaults look pretty cool, now that the
    > cutting-edge design of the Avantime/Vel Satis is percolating down to
    > the Mégane level. That said, I haven't been too impressed with any of
    > the Renaults I've driven.

So what's the cost of a Peugeot 307?

Also, how about buying used cars? Here in the US, lots of people - for
reasons unknown - buy a new car every two years or so, and thus there
are a lot of late model cars available for sale. If it were up to folks
like my husband and me, the only thing available would be cars that were
hardly drivable. We typically buy either a new or an almost new car and
then drive it until it is no longer able to pass road inspection tests.
Where between these two extremes would France be? I expect it might
very by region, of course.

"ellie" wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > Also, how about buying used cars? Here in the US, lots of people - for
    > reasons unknown - buy a new car every two years or so, and thus there
    > are a lot of late model cars available for sale. If it were up to folks
    > like my husband and me, the only thing available would be cars that were
    > hardly drivable. We typically buy either a new or an almost new car and
    > then drive it until it is no longer able to pass road inspection tests.
    > Where between these two extremes would France be? I expect it might
    > very by region, of course.

What happens to those cars that Renault short-term leases (3 weeks to 6
months) to foreign tourists?