Alan Harrison

"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
    > Jeremy wrote:
    > > Maybe this is part of the BBC's anti-Muslim agenda:
    > Are you *kidding*? The BBC is overtly pro - Muslim and overtly anti -
    > Israel.

Err, no, actually. Take a look at the latest study by Professor Greg Philo
and his colleagues, in which exhaustive research clearly demonstrates the
pro-Israel bias of the BBC.

Alan Harrison

Alan Harrison

"PTRAVEL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > As I understand Islam, the Koran distinguishes between people of the book,
    > i.e. Jews and Christians, and infidels. Historically, however, there
    > doesn't seem to have been much tolerance of either.

I'm not so sure. Maimonides, the nearest Jewish equivalent to S. Thomas
Aquinas, flourished in Moorish Cordoba, and Jews fared better generally in
Spain under the Muslims than after the Reconquista.

    > I've never understand, however, the
    > overall intolerance which characterizes fundamentalist Islam to this
day --
    > it seems very non-Koranic

Some have argued that nearly the opposite is true: that the tolerance of
mediaeval Islam was based on the Koran, but that modern Islam is less
capable than Christianity of moving away from the sacred text (e.g. that it
could find nothing like the accepatnce of homosexuality which characterises
much contemporary liberal protestantism).

Alan Harrison

Olivers

Alan Harrison extrapolated from data available...

    >
    > "Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote
    > in message news:[email protected]...
    >> Jeremy wrote:
    >> > Maybe this is part of the BBC's anti-Muslim agenda:
    >> Are you *kidding*? The BBC is overtly pro - Muslim and overtly anti
    >> - Israel.
    >
    > Err, no, actually. Take a look at the latest study by Professor Greg
    > Philo and his colleagues, in which exhaustive research clearly
    > demonstrates the pro-Israel bias of the BBC.
    >
By Golly, There it is! Bigger'n Dallas and twice as believable!

Now, there's as blatant an example of pissing down your leg and telling you
it's raining as you'll ever see....

Evidence that "ehaustive research" can prove any damn thing the researchers
assume to be true. Methinks the "latest study" and Prof. Philodendrum can
be roundfiled under the alterante headings of "Codswallop" and "Bullshit".

TMO

Alan Harrison

"Olivers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

    > Alan Harrison extrapolated from data available...
    > Evidence that "ehaustive research" can prove any damn thing the
researchers
    > assume to be true. Methinks the "latest study" and Prof. Philodendrum can
    > be roundfiled under the alterante headings of "Codswallop" and "Bullshit".

Errr, analysis of 200 news programmes and qualitative interviews with 800
people... This is serious work by a team led by a very open-minded academic.

Alan Harrison

Ptravel

"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > > Aren't Arabs, err, Semites?
    > >
    > > Oh, not this idiocy again.
    > >
    > > The term "antisemite" was coined in the 19th century by a German named
    > > Wilhelm Marr as a euphemism for "judenhass" or "Jew hatred."
Antisemitism
    > > does not mean "hatred of semites," but "hatred of Jews."
    > OK, no problem - that is certainly a possible definition of the term,

No, it is not a possible definition of the term. English is an irregular
language -- you cannot derive constructions in this fashion. Morever, this
particular word has a clear, unambiguous and universally accepted meaning.

    > and I
    > have no problem with conceding that the "semitic" part in normal usage
does
    > refer to Jews.

"Semitic" refers to semites, which includes Arabs and Jews. "Antisemitic"
means only one thing: hatred of Jews.

    > (IIRC, the COD uses a term other than "hatred".) However,
    > the usage, especially in English, is strange.

I have to respond to this nonsense on a fairly regular basis. From an
earlier post I made on the subject:

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
------------------------

Trying to determine meaning by deconstructing words is ludicrous. For
example, how about:

Antiquity? Is its opposite propinquity?

Antipasto? That must mean hatred of spaghetti products, right?

Antipathy? That must be the hatred of pathos, and it's opposite would
be propathy. Is that right?

Antimony? Would antimatter antimony be promony?

Is the converse also true?

If I don't want to promenade, would I antimenade?

If I'm not hungry while at the grocery store, would I shun provisions
and, instead, buy antivisions?

If I'm loathe to do something, would I have an "antipensity," as
opposed to a propensity?

And one more (this is fun!) . . .

If I don't want to drag out these examples would I "antilong" this
conversation, as the would be the opposite meaning of prolong if
English were a regular language.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
--------------

    > Few English speakers will be
    > familar with the works of Herr Marr,

No, but all of them will be familiar with the meaning of antisemitism. From
another post I made on this subject:

---------------------------------------------------------------------

Coincidently, I keep in my office for just such occassions as these, a
Websters' Third New International Dictionary (Unabridged) published by
Merriam-Webster, a dictionary which has been relied upon as the authorative
source of American usage of English by U.S. courts in more than 5,000
published decisions (including those of the U.S. Supreme Court and all
Circuit Courts of Appeal). Here are the complete definitions from
Merriam-Webster:

antisemite: One who is hositle to Jews or practices anti-Semitism.

antisemitic: relating to or characterized by anti-Semitism.

antisemitism: 1. hostility toward Jews as a religious or racial minority
group often accompanied by social, economic and political discrimination, 2.
opposition to Zionism : sympathy with opponents of the state of Israel.

On the other hand, Merriam-Webster defines the word "semite" as follows:

1. a member of one of the peoples listed in the Scriptues as descended from
Shem, 2. a member of any of a group of peoples of southwestern Asia speaking
Semitic languages and chiefly represented now by the Jews and Arabs but in
acient times also by the Babylonians, Assyrians, Aramaeans, Canaanites and
Phoenicians.

As you can see, according to Merriam-Webster, "antisemite" does not mean
someone who is opposed to "semites."
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
-----------

    > and the usage varies from normal
    > "anti-" formulations,

There are no "normal anti- formulations." English is an irregular language.
Particularly, in this instance, the word was coined.

    > where opposition is, in some direct sense, to the
    > person(s) or idea(s) named in the suffix. Again, in English usage, the
word
    > is not euphemistic. It just seems especially bizarre when aimed at people
    > who are are much more obviously "Semitic" in ethnicity than any Jews of my
    > acquaintance, all of whom are ethnically indistinguishable from other
white
    > English people.

What seems bizarre is that there are people who have a vested interested in
twisting the meaning of antisemitism into something else which has the
effect of undercutting the pernicious and offensive philosophy embodied in
the word. As I said, those who insist that antisemitism means anything
other than "Jew hatred" are, almost always, antisemites.

    > I would also venture to suggest that invitations to crawl back under
stones
    > are best made, if at all, by those who append their rela names to their
    > posts.
    > Alan Harrison

If you want my name, it's easy to find as I often sign my posts. However,
as you wish:

Paul N. Tauger

Now crawl back under your rock.

Ptravel

"Alan Harrison" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > "PTRAVEL" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > As I understand Islam, the Koran distinguishes between people of the
book,
    > > i.e. Jews and Christians, and infidels. Historically, however, there
    > > doesn't seem to have been much tolerance of either.
    > I'm not so sure. Maimonides, the nearest Jewish equivalent to S. Thomas
    > Aquinas, flourished in Moorish Cordoba, and Jews fared better generally in
    > Spain under the Muslims than after the Reconquista.

Brief moments in history aside, and the last century or so notwithstanding,
Muslim societies were generally more willing to tolerate the presence of
Jews than Christian societies. However, toleration hardly suggests
flourishing.

    > > I've never understand, however, the
    > > overall intolerance which characterizes fundamentalist Islam to this
    > day --
    > > it seems very non-Koranic
    > Some have argued that nearly the opposite is true: that the tolerance of
    > mediaeval Islam was based on the Koran, but that modern Islam is less
    > capable than Christianity of moving away from the sacred text (e.g. that
it
    > could find nothing like the accepatnce of homosexuality which
characterises
    > much contemporary liberal protestantism).

I don't pretent to very much knowledge of the Koran and Islam. I also think
it's a bit misleading to make this statement about Christianity, which is
far from an homogenous group. Some Christian sects are extremely
progressive, whereas others are more text-bound and orthodox. I'm not sure
there's any characteristic that can be accurately ascribed to all Christians
other than a belief in the divinity of Christ.


    > Alan Harrison

David Horne

Alan Harrison <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Olivers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >
    > > Alan Harrison extrapolated from data available...
    > > Evidence that "ehaustive research" can prove any damn thing the
    > researchers
    > > assume to be true. Methinks the "latest study" and Prof. Philodendrum can
    > > be roundfiled under the alterante headings of "Codswallop" and "Bullshit".
    >
    > Errr, analysis of 200 news programmes and qualitative interviews with 800
    > people... This is serious work by a team led by a very open-minded academic.

Open-minded academics on _any_ Israel/Palestinian issue seems to me to
be, increasingly, an oxymoron. In the UK, it's mostly anti-Israel,
whether it be editors of magazines refusing to include articles by
academics from Israeli universities, or heads of Islamic studies at
various universities extolling the mysoginistic and homophobic Yusuf
al-Qaradawi as a great Islamic scholar. Ho-hum...

I'm not suggesting that pro-Israel fanatics aren't equally offensive,
but I don't remember the last time one was made "truly welcome" by the
London Mayor.

FWIW, I think the BBC is pretty unbiased wrt covering Israel and
Palestine. It's no surprise that this "research" should come out.

David

--
David Horne- www.davidhorne.net
usenet (at) davidhorne (dot) co (dot) uk

Frank F. Matthews

In other words it may be significant academic research but it doesn't
match my view so it is silly. I wonder if Olivers works for Fox News?

Olivers wrote:

    > Alan Harrison extrapolated from data available...

    >>"Gregory Morrow" <[email protected]> wrote
    >>in message news:[email protected]...
    >>>Jeremy wrote:

    >>>>Maybe this is part of the BBC's anti-Muslim agenda:

    >>>Are you *kidding*? The BBC is overtly pro - Muslim and overtly anti
    >>>- Israel.

    >>Err, no, actually. Take a look at the latest study by Professor Greg
    >>Philo and his colleagues, in which exhaustive research clearly
    >>demonstrates the pro-Israel bias of the BBC.

    > By Golly, There it is! Bigger'n Dallas and twice as believable!
    > Now, there's as blatant an example of pissing down your leg and telling you
    > it's raining as you'll ever see....
    >
    > Evidence that "ehaustive research" can prove any damn thing the researchers
    > assume to be true. Methinks the "latest study" and Prof. Philodendrum can
    > be roundfiled under the alterante headings of "Codswallop" and "Bullshit". TMO

barney

In article <[email protected]>,
[email protected] (Olivers) wrote:

    > Evidence that "ehaustive research" can prove any damn thing the
    > researchers assume to be true. Methinks the "latest study" and Prof.
    > Philodendrum can be roundfiled under the alterante headings of
    > "Codswallop" and "Bullshit".

Glasgow Media Group is about as academically respectable as they come.

Tim Kroesen

The ashes of murderers and terrorists should be thoroughly integrated
into French soil...

Did your 'golden boy' get sued for the profits of his prison book by his
victims yet?

Tim K

"Donna Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dans l'article <[email protected]>, "PTRAVEL"
    > <[email protected]> a écrit :
    > > That is, at least, not what is reported by the American news
services, i.e.
    > > the French immigrant Arabs are highly antisemitic (and, almost
certainly,
    > > anti-American as well). The latter is understandable -- Bush and
co. have
    > > certainly not gone out of their way to win friends, either at home
or
    > > abroad. The former, however, is simply endemic in Arab culture,
which has a
    > > long and rich tradition of anti-semitism.
    > >
    > >>
    > Concerning the incident of the woman supposedly attacked on the train,
we
    > have just received a report on the views of some French immigrant
Arabs, a
    > very special part of them, those who are in prison (a very large
percentage
    > of the French prison population is foreign-born or of foreign origin,
most
    > often North African). We got a letter today from Barry, the black
American
    > we visit in prison in here in France. He reports the views of two
major
    > immigrant groups in the prison population, the Gremlins and the
Beards.
    > The Gremlins are the alienated young men from the suburbs, who can be
easily
    > recognized by their hip hop style of dress. "Gremlins" is what they
call
    > themselves, taken from the American film. They have been sent to
prison for
    > common crimes, theft, sometimes attempted murder. They are always
looking
    > for attention, including negative attention created by causing
trouble.
    > According to Barry, they were happy to see their neighborhood
(Sarcelles) in
    > the news for three whole days, they were even proud that the president
and
    > the politicians were talking about them. For it is true, the
attackers, had
    > they really existed, would probably have been Gremlins.
    > The Beards are the Islamic fundamentalists, often in prison on
terrorism
    > charges. According to Barry, they did not believe the woman's story
right
    > from the start, but said that if it was true, then it was one of those
    > schemes by BETAR (an extremist Jewish group in France) to deflect
attention
    > from the news that Israel has been condemned by the World Court. Once
the
    > news broke that it actually was a hoax, they were in seventh heaven,
they
    > had been vindicated. This is important, because they have influence
over
    > the Gremlins who, even if they don't practice their original Islamic
    > religion, still believe in it and respect it.
    > It is absolutely correct that both the Gremlins and the Beards are
very
    > antisemitic. Barry has told us this a number of times. For both
these
    > groups, everything is the fault of the Jews, and the Jews enjoy a
privileged
    > position, controlling everything. The Israel-Palestine conflict gives
them
    > a handy peg to hang all their grievances on, whether it's relevant or
not.
    > Both the Gremlins and the Beards are important because they represent
    > important segments of their community population, and their
antisemitism
    > will keep on causing trouble. A way has got to be found to integrate
them
    > into the larger society, but this is easier said than done. The
problem
    > feeds on itself, the more these two groups are shunned by the larger
French
    > society - and they are - the more they will retreat into their
community and
    > take out their frustrations on others, most notably the Jews. I see
more
    > trouble to come.
    > Donna Evleth

Donna Evleth

Dans l'article <[email protected]>, "PTRAVEL"
<[email protected]> a écrit :


    > That is, at least, not what is reported by the American news services, i.e.
    > the French immigrant Arabs are highly antisemitic (and, almost certainly,
    > anti-American as well). The latter is understandable -- Bush and co. have
    > certainly not gone out of their way to win friends, either at home or
    > abroad. The former, however, is simply endemic in Arab culture, which has a
    > long and rich tradition of anti-semitism.
Concerning the incident of the woman supposedly attacked on the train, we
have just received a report on the views of some French immigrant Arabs, a
very special part of them, those who are in prison (a very large percentage
of the French prison population is foreign-born or of foreign origin, most
often North African). We got a letter today from Barry, the black American
we visit in prison in here in France. He reports the views of two major
immigrant groups in the prison population, the Gremlins and the Beards.

The Gremlins are the alienated young men from the suburbs, who can be easily
recognized by their hip hop style of dress. "Gremlins" is what they call
themselves, taken from the American film. They have been sent to prison for
common crimes, theft, sometimes attempted murder. They are always looking
for attention, including negative attention created by causing trouble.
According to Barry, they were happy to see their neighborhood (Sarcelles) in
the news for three whole days, they were even proud that the president and
the politicians were talking about them. For it is true, the attackers, had
they really existed, would probably have been Gremlins.

The Beards are the Islamic fundamentalists, often in prison on terrorism
charges. According to Barry, they did not believe the woman's story right
from the start, but said that if it was true, then it was one of those
schemes by BETAR (an extremist Jewish group in France) to deflect attention
from the news that Israel has been condemned by the World Court. Once the
news broke that it actually was a hoax, they were in seventh heaven, they
had been vindicated. This is important, because they have influence over
the Gremlins who, even if they don't practice their original Islamic
religion, still believe in it and respect it.

It is absolutely correct that both the Gremlins and the Beards are very
antisemitic. Barry has told us this a number of times. For both these
groups, everything is the fault of the Jews, and the Jews enjoy a privileged
position, controlling everything. The Israel-Palestine conflict gives them
a handy peg to hang all their grievances on, whether it's relevant or not.

Both the Gremlins and the Beards are important because they represent
important segments of their community population, and their antisemitism
will keep on causing trouble. A way has got to be found to integrate them
into the larger society, but this is easier said than done. The problem
feeds on itself, the more these two groups are shunned by the larger French
society - and they are - the more they will retreat into their community and
take out their frustrations on others, most notably the Jews. I see more
trouble to come.

Donna Evleth

Capitalist Pig

He's innocent, don't you know?


"Tim Kroesen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > The ashes of murderers and terrorists should be thoroughly integrated
    > into French soil...
    > Did your 'golden boy' get sued for the profits of his prison book by his
    > victims yet?
    > Tim K
    > "Donna Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > Dans l'article <[email protected]>, "PTRAVEL"
    > > <[email protected]> a écrit :
    > >
    > >
    > > > That is, at least, not what is reported by the American news
    > services, i.e.
    > > > the French immigrant Arabs are highly antisemitic (and, almost
    > certainly,
    > > > anti-American as well). The latter is understandable -- Bush and
    > co. have
    > > > certainly not gone out of their way to win friends, either at home
    > or
    > > > abroad. The former, however, is simply endemic in Arab culture,
    > which has a
    > > > long and rich tradition of anti-semitism.
    > > >
    > > >>
    > > Concerning the incident of the woman supposedly attacked on the train,
    > we
    > > have just received a report on the views of some French immigrant
    > Arabs, a
    > > very special part of them, those who are in prison (a very large
    > percentage
    > > of the French prison population is foreign-born or of foreign origin,
    > most
    > > often North African). We got a letter today from Barry, the black
    > American
    > > we visit in prison in here in France. He reports the views of two
    > major
    > > immigrant groups in the prison population, the Gremlins and the
    > Beards.
    > >
    > > The Gremlins are the alienated young men from the suburbs, who can be
    > easily
    > > recognized by their hip hop style of dress. "Gremlins" is what they
    > call
    > > themselves, taken from the American film. They have been sent to
    > prison for
    > > common crimes, theft, sometimes attempted murder. They are always
    > looking
    > > for attention, including negative attention created by causing
    > trouble.
    > > According to Barry, they were happy to see their neighborhood
    > (Sarcelles) in
    > > the news for three whole days, they were even proud that the president
    > and
    > > the politicians were talking about them. For it is true, the
    > attackers, had
    > > they really existed, would probably have been Gremlins.
    > >
    > > The Beards are the Islamic fundamentalists, often in prison on
    > terrorism
    > > charges. According to Barry, they did not believe the woman's story
    > right
    > > from the start, but said that if it was true, then it was one of those
    > > schemes by BETAR (an extremist Jewish group in France) to deflect
    > attention
    > > from the news that Israel has been condemned by the World Court. Once
    > the
    > > news broke that it actually was a hoax, they were in seventh heaven,
    > they
    > > had been vindicated. This is important, because they have influence
    > over
    > > the Gremlins who, even if they don't practice their original Islamic
    > > religion, still believe in it and respect it.
    > >
    > > It is absolutely correct that both the Gremlins and the Beards are
    > very
    > > antisemitic. Barry has told us this a number of times. For both
    > these
    > > groups, everything is the fault of the Jews, and the Jews enjoy a
    > privileged
    > > position, controlling everything. The Israel-Palestine conflict gives
    > them
    > > a handy peg to hang all their grievances on, whether it's relevant or
    > not.
    > >
    > > Both the Gremlins and the Beards are important because they represent
    > > important segments of their community population, and their
    > antisemitism
    > > will keep on causing trouble. A way has got to be found to integrate
    > them
    > > into the larger society, but this is easier said than done. The
    > problem
    > > feeds on itself, the more these two groups are shunned by the larger
    > French
    > > society - and they are - the more they will retreat into their
    > community and
    > > take out their frustrations on others, most notably the Jews. I see
    > more
    > > trouble to come.
    > >
    > > Donna Evleth

Tim Kroesen

Was I mistaken that the convict you've taken under your wings is just a
drug dealer? I thought the past threads indicated a murderer; whatever
turns you on. Perhaps the French government should sue away his profit
to pay for his incarceration then...

Tim K

"Donna Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
    > Dans l'article <[email protected]. net>,
"Tim
    > Kroesen" <[email protected]> a écrit :
    > > The ashes of murderers and terrorists should be thoroughly
integrated
    > > into French soil...
    > >
    > > Did your 'golden boy' get sued for the profits of his prison book by
his
    > > victims yet?
    > >
    > > Tim K
    > Who are you referring to? Barry??? If so, you are really wrong,
wrong,
    > wrong. Barry is neither a murderer nor a terrorist. Nor has he
written a
    > prison book. It was a drug case, thus there are no identified victims
to
    > sue for the non-profits of this non-book.
    > Two sentences, three factual errors. Congratulation.
    > Donna Evleth
    > >
    > > "Donna Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > >>
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> Dans l'article <[email protected]>, "PTRAVEL"
    > >> <[email protected]> a écrit :
    > >>
    > >>
    > >> > That is, at least, not what is reported by the American news
    > > services, i.e.
    > >> > the French immigrant Arabs are highly antisemitic (and, almost
    > > certainly,
    > >> > anti-American as well). The latter is understandable -- Bush and
    > > co. have
    > >> > certainly not gone out of their way to win friends, either at
home
    > > or
    > >> > abroad. The former, however, is simply endemic in Arab culture,
    > > which has a
    > >> > long and rich tradition of anti-semitism.
    > >> >
    > >> >>
    > >> Concerning the incident of the woman supposedly attacked on the
train,
    > > we
    > >> have just received a report on the views of some French immigrant
    > > Arabs, a
    > >> very special part of them, those who are in prison (a very large
    > > percentage
    > >> of the French prison population is foreign-born or of foreign
origin,
    > > most
    > >> often North African). We got a letter today from Barry, the black
    > > American
    > >> we visit in prison in here in France. He reports the views of two
    > > major
    > >> immigrant groups in the prison population, the Gremlins and the
    > > Beards.
    > >>
    > >> The Gremlins are the alienated young men from the suburbs, who can
be
    > > easily
    > >> recognized by their hip hop style of dress. "Gremlins" is what
they
    > > call
    > >> themselves, taken from the American film. They have been sent to
    > > prison for
    > >> common crimes, theft, sometimes attempted murder. They are always
    > > looking
    > >> for attention, including negative attention created by causing
    > > trouble.
    > >> According to Barry, they were happy to see their neighborhood
    > > (Sarcelles) in
    > >> the news for three whole days, they were even proud that the
president
    > > and
    > >> the politicians were talking about them. For it is true, the
    > > attackers, had
    > >> they really existed, would probably have been Gremlins.
    > >>
    > >> The Beards are the Islamic fundamentalists, often in prison on
    > > terrorism
    > >> charges. According to Barry, they did not believe the woman's
story
    > > right
    > >> from the start, but said that if it was true, then it was one of
those
    > >> schemes by BETAR (an extremist Jewish group in France) to deflect
    > > attention
    > >> from the news that Israel has been condemned by the World Court.
Once
    > > the
    > >> news broke that it actually was a hoax, they were in seventh
heaven,
    > > they
    > >> had been vindicated. This is important, because they have
influence
    > > over
    > >> the Gremlins who, even if they don't practice their original
Islamic
    > >> religion, still believe in it and respect it.
    > >>
    > >> It is absolutely correct that both the Gremlins and the Beards are
    > > very
    > >> antisemitic. Barry has told us this a number of times. For both
    > > these
    > >> groups, everything is the fault of the Jews, and the Jews enjoy a
    > > privileged
    > >> position, controlling everything. The Israel-Palestine conflict
gives
    > > them
    > >> a handy peg to hang all their grievances on, whether it's relevant
or
    > > not.
    > >>
    > >> Both the Gremlins and the Beards are important because they
represent
    > >> important segments of their community population, and their
    > > antisemitism
    > >> will keep on causing trouble. A way has got to be found to
integrate
    > > them
    > >> into the larger society, but this is easier said than done. The
    > > problem
    > >> feeds on itself, the more these two groups are shunned by the
larger
    > > French
    > >> society - and they are - the more they will retreat into their
    > > community and
    > >> take out their frustrations on others, most notably the Jews. I
see
    > > more
    > >> trouble to come.
    > >>
    > >> Donna Evleth
    > >

Donna Evleth

Dans l'article <[email protected]. net>, "Tim
Kroesen" <[email protected]> a écrit :


    > The ashes of murderers and terrorists should be thoroughly integrated
    > into French soil...
    > Did your 'golden boy' get sued for the profits of his prison book by his
    > victims yet?
    > Tim K

Who are you referring to? Barry??? If so, you are really wrong, wrong,
wrong. Barry is neither a murderer nor a terrorist. Nor has he written a
prison book. It was a drug case, thus there are no identified victims to
sue for the non-profits of this non-book.

Two sentences, three factual errors. Congratulation.

Donna Evleth
    > "Donna Evleth" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> Dans l'article <[email protected]>, "PTRAVEL"
    >> <[email protected]> a écrit :
    >> > That is, at least, not what is reported by the American news
    > services, i.e.
    >> > the French immigrant Arabs are highly antisemitic (and, almost
    > certainly,
    >> > anti-American as well). The latter is understandable -- Bush and
    > co. have
    >> > certainly not gone out of their way to win friends, either at home
    > or
    >> > abroad. The former, however, is simply endemic in Arab culture,
    > which has a
    >> > long and rich tradition of anti-semitism.
    >> >
    >> >>
    >> Concerning the incident of the woman supposedly attacked on the train,
    > we
    >> have just received a report on the views of some French immigrant
    > Arabs, a
    >> very special part of them, those who are in prison (a very large
    > percentage
    >> of the French prison population is foreign-born or of foreign origin,
    > most
    >> often North African). We got a letter today from Barry, the black
    > American
    >> we visit in prison in here in France. He reports the views of two
    > major
    >> immigrant groups in the prison population, the Gremlins and the
    > Beards.
    >> The Gremlins are the alienated young men from the suburbs, who can be
    > easily
    >> recognized by their hip hop style of dress. "Gremlins" is what they
    > call
    >> themselves, taken from the American film. They have been sent to
    > prison for
    >> common crimes, theft, sometimes attempted murder. They are always
    > looking
    >> for attention, including negative attention created by causing
    > trouble.
    >> According to Barry, they were happy to see their neighborhood
    > (Sarcelles) in
    >> the news for three whole days, they were even proud that the president
    > and
    >> the politicians were talking about them. For it is true, the
    > attackers, had
    >> they really existed, would probably have been Gremlins.
    >> The Beards are the Islamic fundamentalists, often in prison on
    > terrorism
    >> charges. According to Barry, they did not believe the woman's story
    > right
    >> from the start, but said that if it was true, then it was one of those
    >> schemes by BETAR (an extremist Jewish group in France) to deflect
    > attention
    >> from the news that Israel has been condemned by the World Court. Once
    > the
    >> news broke that it actually was a hoax, they were in seventh heaven,
    > they
    >> had been vindicated. This is important, because they have influence
    > over
    >> the Gremlins who, even if they don't practice their original Islamic
    >> religion, still believe in it and respect it.
    >> It is absolutely correct that both the Gremlins and the Beards are
    > very
    >> antisemitic. Barry has told us this a number of times. For both
    > these
    >> groups, everything is the fault of the Jews, and the Jews enjoy a
    > privileged
    >> position, controlling everything. The Israel-Palestine conflict gives
    > them
    >> a handy peg to hang all their grievances on, whether it's relevant or
    > not.
    >> Both the Gremlins and the Beards are important because they represent
    >> important segments of their community population, and their
    > antisemitism
    >> will keep on causing trouble. A way has got to be found to integrate
    > them
    >> into the larger society, but this is easier said than done. The
    > problem
    >> feeds on itself, the more these two groups are shunned by the larger
    > French
    >> society - and they are - the more they will retreat into their
    > community and
    >> take out their frustrations on others, most notably the Jews. I see
    > more
    >> trouble to come.
    >> Donna Evleth
    >

Not the Karl Orff

In article <[email protected]>,
"Frank F. Matthews" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > In other words it may be significant academic research but it doesn't
    > match my view so it is silly. I wonder if Olivers works for Fox News?

you do mean Faux News?